44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 24, 2021 02:00PM
- Nov/24/21 5:47:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, if I go into the lobby over here, I know all but one person has been double-vaccinated. I know the one who is not, and there is a darn good reason for it.
Does the hon. member not agree that he is playing Russian roulette every time he goes into that lobby over there? He does not know who he is mixing with or who could have something nasty, especially when the opposition House leader has indicated that a person who is unvaxxed is more likely to transmit the disease to somebody else.
I am wondering this. What kind of risk management does my colleague use to deal with this?
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- Nov/24/21 5:48:19 p.m.
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I want to remind members that if they have a difference of opinion on what is being said they have the opportunity to rise to ask questions and make comments.
The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.
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- Nov/24/21 5:48:29 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Board of Internal Economy has set the rules, and the Board of Internal Economy will be making sure that the rules are adhered to.
However, there is a broader imperative here. We are asking Canadians to show their vaccination records when they get on a plane or go to a restaurant. There is no doubt that we have to set the example. We also have to make sure that members of Parliament can fully participate.
In the case of any exposure whatsoever, the virtual Parliament allows those members of Parliament to continue to represent their constituents. That is why I find the position of the Conservative Party so baffling. The Conservatives should be the first ones to say we should renew the virtual parliamentary mandate. They certainly supported it in the past. It is inconceivable to me that they are refusing to continue something that is an appropriate public health measure and would protect everybody: employees, staff, members of Parliament and their families.
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- Nov/24/21 5:49:42 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have a very simple question for the member for New Westminster—Burnaby.
Our opposition House leader, the member for Louis-Saint-Laurent, introduced a very reasonable amendment that would increase the length of time we would have for accountability through the Committee of the Whole to provide an additional four hours. It was a very reasonable amendment.
I was wondering if the NDP House leader is going to support our Conservative amendment, or is he still waiting for permission from the Liberal House leader?
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- Nov/24/21 5:50:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, that petty insult is just an example of why Conservatives should not be taking such a lack of seriousness in this debate.
If the members of the Conservative Party are saying that with those amendments they are prepared to vote for this motion, rather than have debate, we can do what we have done every single time, which is pass unanimously these public health measures to ensure a hybrid Parliament. If the Conservatives are saying that these amendments are what would make a difference for them, and we could move on and get back to the business of the country, that would be a wonderful thing.
Could the next Conservative who gets up please clarify whether these are amendments that would actually mean, as far as the Conservatives are concerned, that they would be willing to immediately vote yes and continue with the hybrid Parliament?
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- Nov/24/21 5:51:16 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I too would like to congratulate you on being elected Deputy Speaker. I would also like to congratulate the member for New Westminster—Burnaby, whom I understand is to be my counterpart at the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. It will be my pleasure to work with him to move forward on cultural matters and the important bills awaiting our attention.
I heard the member's arguments for why we can do our work just as well in hybrid mode. However, as my colleague from Salaberry—Suroît demonstrated earlier, that approach has some serious shortcomings ranging from the interpreters' health and numerous health problems to fair allocation of speaking time. Our job is to hold the government to account and ensure that government business is properly managed, but a hybrid system is not really conducive to that, because there are issues with technology, interpretation and so on.
Does my colleague not think we would all be better off behaving like grown-ups, getting double-vaccinated, being responsible, respecting the rules and remaining vigilant, so that if there is an outbreak, we can pivot back to hybrid sittings, which would always be an option? Then—
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- Nov/24/21 5:52:28 p.m.
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I forgot to mention that we had time for only a brief question. I would therefore ask the member for New Westminster—Burnaby to give a brief answer.
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- Nov/24/21 5:52:37 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I too look forward to working with my colleague at the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.
I do not understand the Bloc's contradiction. They say we might need this tool, but not now. As we have seen, Austria and Germany are going into full lockdown once again. The number of cases has increased markedly in some parts of Canada. I therefore do not understand why the Bloc Québécois is resisting something that is common sense, namely, continuing with a hybrid Parliament so we can continue our work no matter what happens with the virus over the next few weeks.
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- Nov/24/21 5:53:27 p.m.
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We have a point of order.
The hon. Minister of Families, Children and Social Development.
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- Nov/24/21 5:53:36 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I give notice that with respect to consideration of Government Business No. 1, at the next sitting of the House a minister of the Crown shall move, pursuant to Standing Order 57, that debate not be further adjourned.
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- Nov/24/21 5:54:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise in the House, as much as it was to speak virtually from my home. I appreciate both opportunities, because it is such a privilege to add thoughts to important public debates.
Today we have yet another very important public debate. I suspect a number of Canadians are tuning in and looking for leadership coming from the House of Commons. I want to spend a bit of time on that, but because this is the first time I have had the opportunity to address the House, I would like to give a very special thanks to the residents of Winnipeg North. This is my fifth time back as a member of Parliament, but a certain part of Winnipeg North has elected me as a parliamentarian 10 times: first in the Manitoba legislature, and now here in Ottawa. I genuinely appreciate and value the support of the community and commit to work the hardest I can to serve them every day.
When I think of the issues before us, the potatoes in Prince Edward Island come to my mind right away, as do the drought in the Prairies, health care for the residents and seniors of Winnipeg North and the floods taking place in B.C. There are so many issues. I want to ensure that all members have the opportunity to participate in the debates we are going to have on the issues that are critically important to Canadians from coast to coast to coast. That is what this motion is all about. I agree with the NDP House leader that it would have been nice if this motion had passed unanimously on day one. That is the way it should have been. I truly believe that.
I listened to the Conservatives and their cozy cousins from the Bloc saying they do not want a hybrid system. I am concerned that they do not really see the true value of it. I hope to talk about the importance of leadership and why members should give consideration to how they will vote on this motion. I believe there is a great deal of room for support of this motion.
Let us not forget why we are at this point, as the opposition House leader referred to in his remarks on the motion. Not that long ago, 18 months or so ago, Canada found itself facing a worldwide pandemic. It was so encouraging to see parliamentarians from all sides of the House come together. The former government House leader knows that full well. We saw the merit in closing down the House of Commons. He worked with the opposition members to ensure that it was a priority. For those who were not here back then, we literally closed the House of Commons. That was the consensus from all political entities inside the chamber.
However, there was a consensus that we would not let a pandemic prevent us from fulfilling something that Canadians hold dear to their hearts, which is our democracy and freedom. The Parliament of Canada is so valuable that we had to make sure it was able to continue on. It was important to the Prime Minister, to cabinet and to the leader of the official opposition. I believe every member of the House recognized that back then.
There was a much higher sense of co-operation because people realized that Canadians were dying, Canadians were getting sick and the pandemic was hitting us hard. We all as parliamentarians, not as partisan parliamentarians, but as a parliamentarians, had to take action to protect the interests of our nation. One of those actions is what we are talking about today. Even though some downplay the significance, I ask members to remember the important leadership role we all play here in Canada and the expectations Canadians have of each and every one of us.
Hopefully the worst of the pandemic is behind us. I believe it is, but there are still waves out there. There is no reason I have heard that could not be negotiated to enable us to continue on with a hybrid system. I have read the news, followed the media and I have listened to the stories and arguments being presented by some members from the opposition parties.
I would suggest that we revisit the attitudes we had 18 months ago. I know I felt good when I was able to go back to my community and say that we were working collectively not only in the House of Commons, but also with stakeholders, science and health experts, provinces, territories and indigenous communities in order to take on the pandemic.
However, our democracy, our Parliament and the issue of accountability are so important that we had to come up with a mechanism that would enable us to continue our democracy, and we did that with the hybrid system. This system enabled everyone the opportunity to participate in debate, in votes, at committees and with interjections, whether they were matters of privileges, points of order, members' statements or in question period. It enabled us to continue on. There was even the opportunity for the former House leader to ensure there was a mixture of ministers answering on the floor and virtually. I remember that well. It was a process that worked, and it was very effective.
We are asking opposition members to recognize the value of a hybrid system. To say that there is no value to it, or that we do not need it today, goes against the type of leadership Canadians are looking for. Yesterday Manitoba had its throne speech, like Ottawa did. Personally I thought ours was better, but that is a side point.
I called my daughter, as she is an MLA, and asked her how her day went. She said she does not get to go into the chamber until next week. I asked if they were still on the hybrid system, and she said they were. She will be in the chamber next week, but they still have a hybrid system.
That is a Progressive Conservative government in the province of Manitoba saying that there is a need. Heather Stefanson, the newly elected premier, is right because people are watching. People understand the seriousness of the pandemic. We understand it has changed all of our lives in a significant way, but at the end of the day, what we are trying to do is not far off from that hybrid system.
Yes, there are some differences and some unique aspects of ours compared to Manitoba's, but the bottom line is that it appears that all the parties recognize the need to continue with it. I believe that it is not too late for members opposite here to recognize the value of it.
We do not have to think very hard on this because we all know the member for Beauce. He is not going to be able to vote on the motion we are debating right now. He was not even allowed to vote for the Speaker. Although, it might have been a bit of a challenge to get the hybrid system passed before we had the Speaker in place, but the point is that the member for Beauce cannot participate. If there were some sort of significant tragedy in his riding or something wonderful that he wanted to report on, he is not allowed in the chamber to do so. It is not possible for him to participate because of COVID and the pandemic.
The opposition House leader made reference to the fact that tomorrow he is going for his second test because he is following the rules, which is the way to go, but I trust it is because of the member for Beauce. There are a number of members in the Conservative caucus who, because of their proximity to the member for Beauce, had to get some testing done. I do not know about other members, but I believe that the opposition House leader, if he tests positive tomorrow, should be able to be able to continue here, and he would be able do that with a hybrid system.
I would argue that to believe that none of our colleagues, out of 338 of us, will not have COVID over the next number of months might be considered as being irresponsible. In Manitoba, there were two MLAs infected with COVID, and I believe both had been fully vaccinated. One is the leader of the New Democratic Party and another was just discovered recently. Maybe that is one of the reasons they factored in the benefits of having the hybrid system.
Why is it that some members would want to prevent other members from being able to participate in these debates? This is what I do not understand. That is what my colleagues in the Liberal caucus do not understand. This is not some way of escaping accountability. This is all about ensuring that members have the ability to hold the government to account. Whether it is one member or multiple members who are unable to be here for whatever reason, they would still be able to perform their responsibilities.
When we talk about accountability and transparency, yesterday and earlier today someone from across the floor heckled something to the effect that the Liberals have one member who is not vaccinated. Well, that is news to me. To my understanding, every member of the Liberal caucus is fully vaccinated. If those members do not believe that to be the case, please let me know which member it is, because I believe that every member of the Liberal caucus is fully vaccinated. I also understand that members of the Bloc and members of the New Democrats are fully vaccinated.
Now, I would suggest that there is an issue of transparency. Do Canadians have the right to know which members or how many members of the Conservative caucus are not vaccinated? The government House leader made reference to some statistics regarding the likelihood of someone getting a medical exemption, which is one in 100,000. We honestly do not know if there are 20 Conservatives or two Conservatives. We just know that there are some. We do not know the actual number. The liklihood is one out of 100,000 and there are only 119 Conservative members of Parliament. Statistically, what could that number be? That is hard for us.
One of my colleagues come up to me yesterday and he was genuinely concerned about his health. His primary concern was that some members are not fully vaccinated. I indicated that he should share his concerns with the government House leader. There are members in this House who are genuinely concerned for themselves, let alone having concerns about the people who operate this wonderful institution.
There are many people who make this Parliament work, whether it is security where we first walk in, or the people who make us our hamburger, fries and much more at the cafeteria. There are the translators, the clerks and the people who work on Hansard and have to listen to the speeches. There are so many people. At the end of the day we need to be thinking about the health and safety of all the people who are inside this building.
I would suggest that we, as parliamentarians at a national level, have an important leadership role to play. I know this has affected all of us and how we represent our constituents. Two years ago I did not even know that Zoom existed. Nowadays, I spend a lot of time on Zoom. I used to go to the local restaurant every Saturday for four hours. That is why I would be flying back to Winnipeg every weekend from Ottawa. It was to meet with constituents.
Many of the ways we serve our constituents have changed. With those changes we have to do some things differently. That is one of the reasons I now have Zoom town hall meetings. It is another way I can meet with constituents. Until it is safe, I will not return to the weekly meetings, which I had been doing for 30 years. I will wait until it is safe. In the interim, I am going to have my virtual town hall meetings. I had one just the other day.
Along with those changes, we need to recognize that our role is about more than just serving our constituents in our ridings. It is our role as parliamentarians to participate in votes and a spectrum of other things, but they do not physically have to be done here. A number of years back I asked the then clerk if there was any chance I could be sworn in as a member of Parliament in my own city of Winnipeg. He said that we could not do that. This time I was able to do that. I thought it was a wonderful thing to be sworn in as a member of Parliament there. Things have changed. We need to accommodate that.
I ask all members of the House to go back to the day when there was that high sense of cooperation and a recognition that in Parliament we need to work together to make sure that members of Parliament have the opportunity to be fully engaged. This will not be for forever. We are only talking about having this until June. One of the ways we can ensure that the member for Beauce and other members going forward will be able to fully participate is by passing this motion.
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- Nov/24/21 6:13:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague must understand that there is big difference between being in the House to experience the intensity of the debates and being in front of a screen where you can mute it and wait for it to end. Seeing my colleagues in person is quite different, and I enjoy it a lot more.
My question is simple. If all members of the House of Commons could have been vaccinated, would we be debating this motion today? If all the members who do not have medical issues were vaccinated, would we be considering the possibility of returning to a hybrid format, yes or no?
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- Nov/24/21 6:14:50 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the short answer would be yes. Even if people are fully vaccinated, they still can get the coronavirus. One of the things is that we, as parliamentarians, come from every region of the country. We all fly into Ottawa and then we fly out to our communities. More and more communities are going back to their different types of events. We have to be extra careful.
This would provide an option. I love to speak in the chamber. There is no doubt I love the atmosphere of the chamber, but I also enjoy speaking virtually, because I still am able to get my point across. I hope the member would reconsider that if I do end up speaking virtual, he would not turn the TV off.
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- Nov/24/21 6:15:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I congratulate you on your re-election to the Chair, and I thank all my constituents in La Pointe-de-l’Île for putting their trust in me.
My question is this: Given that we can now go to a gym, to a restaurant, to the movies, and even to a hockey game, is the role of Parliament not important enough for us to sit here?
Let us remember that there are not always 338 members in attendance. Most of the time, there are a lot fewer of us.
Also, they want to have a hybrid Parliament in place until June 23. Personally, I think that this is overkill. If a member catches COVID-19 and must be tested, remote voting is an acceptable compromise.
I fail to see why we cannot sit in Parliament, when we can attend a hockey game with thousands of others in the same space.
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- Nov/24/21 6:16:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, because of the fine work of so many people, Canada is in a fantastic position; with over 86% of our population now fully vaccinated. I attribute that to everyone from our health care professionals, individuals at different levels of government and that sense of commitment to get Canada in a good space so we can lead the world in getting out of the pandemic. I think we are well positioned.
However, I still believe that having the hybrid Parliament today is a good thing. As I said, there is a sunset clause that would end it in June. We can ensure that every member of the House will be allowed to be fully engaged, whether it is voting or participating in debates, by allowing this motion to pass.
If I understood him correctly, the member seemed a little sympathetic to ensuring that all members be allowed to participate fully. A good way of doing that is by voting in favour of the motion.
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- Nov/24/21 6:18:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as a newly elected member of Parliament and my first time rising in the chamber, I would like to thank the constituents of Nanaimo—Ladysmith for putting their trust in me.
I am hearing from colleagues that they are fearful while doing their jobs in Parliament, fearful while wanting to do the work of representing the constituents of their ridings. This issue is not about partisanship; it is about supporting elected members of Parliament to represent their ridings, to have a voice, and to provide the tools to keep MPs safe while doing so.
Does my colleague agree that a tool for MPs to do their work safely is in all our best interests, regardless of party affiliation?
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- Nov/24/21 6:19:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I agree with the member 100%, and I congratulate her on taking her seat. As she was speaking, I thought of our health care workers and those who have been confronted by fairly hostile people. There is important legislation that we will have to go over in the next few weeks. One of the ways in which we can ensure and enable every member of Parliament to vote on this important legislation is to pass this motion.
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- Nov/24/21 6:19:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as this is our first opportunity for either of the members of the Green Party to speak to this motion, I want to make it clear that we will be supporting it. We very much support a hybrid Parliament.
I just came back from being at COP26 in Glasgow, where no one could enter the hall who was not double vaccinated. The health rules were that we should also keep masked, maintain physical distancing, maintain all public health measures and get tested daily to ensure we were not COVID-positive.
I do not feel safe in this place, even if every member is double vaccinated, because we are too close. We cannot speak if we are not at our very own desks. We cannot vote if we are not at our very own desks. The situation here is not compliant with public health rules across Canada, and I am very grateful that this motion is being put forward.
I deeply regret what happened from March 13 of last year and into the spring. However, we finally had hybrid sessions and we were able to vote remotely. We should follow that practice for our safety and the safety of our communities.
Shame on anyone who does not see the importance of protecting public health.
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- Nov/24/21 6:21:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, unfortunately it has gone in this direction. It would have been far better if we would have had a non-partisan approach to ensure we would have the hybrid in place. That would have been our preferred route. Let there be no doubt on that. Our first priority was to ensure that all members had the ability to be fully engaged, with the importance of health and safety being at the forefront.
Our preference would have been to have the unanimous support of the House to pass it yesterday. That was not possible. Hopefully members of the Conservative Party and the Bloc will reconsider the value of having a hybrid system and come onside, so we can see it passed unanimously. It is the right thing to do. It would be demonstrating strong leadership for the rest of the country.
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- Nov/24/21 6:22:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will begin by congratulating you on your re-election and by thanking my constituents in Honoré-Mercier for placing their trust in me a sixth time.
I would also like to thank my colleague from Winnipeg North for his passionate speech, and I must say that it was an honour and a privilege to have had him as my parliamentary secretary throughout the previous Parliament. If there is anyone who cares about and stands up for our democracy, it is him, especially when it comes to the role of parliamentarians.
Our concern here is that a parliamentarian could catch COVID-19 or have been in contact with someone and not be able to appear in the House to carry out their role, debate, discuss, or vote. Is it not true that the hybrid format would allow that member to continue to carry out their role despite not being able to be in the House?
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