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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP)

Nov/25/21 1:21:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Outremont for her intervention and speech. I am still a little surprised to see the Bloc Québécois joining hands with the Conservative Party. It seems to me that by default the majority of members should be in the House to do their job. However, why not keep this option of a hybrid Parliament? People could work from home, as we have for a year and a half. We adapted, society adapted. There is now a fourth wave in Quebec; there were 900 new cases yesterday and more than 5 deaths. We must continue to be prudent and thus keep this option. What is my colleague's explanation? Why are the Bloc Québécois members rejecting this option? If we must help interpreters with the French fact, the Bloc members need only propose that more resources be allocated to interpretation services.

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Ms. Rachel Bendayan

Nov/25/21 1:21:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have found common ground with my colleague from Rosemont—La Petite‑Patrie. I commend the Bloc's proposal to perhaps find more resources for the interpreters to ensure that everyone can understand and hear each other in both official languages.

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The Deputy Speaker

Nov/25/21 1:22:25 p.m.
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Resuming debate. The hon. member for Mégantic—L'Érable.

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Mr. Luc Berthold (Mégantic—L'Érable, CPC)

Nov/25/21 1:22:30 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman. As this is my first opportunity to rise in the House, I will take a moment to thank the constituents of Mégantic—L'Érable for their support, the volunteers, and everyone who worked on the last election campaign. I am very proud to represent them in the House, in this chamber where so many things have happened over the past few years. I owe it all to them. I thank them very much. We are gathered here today to discuss something very important, but we are also talking about something else that should have been left off the agenda. We are talking about the possibility of having a hybrid Parliament. The government chose to discuss this motion, in one of its first acts, by muzzling the opposition parties who want to discuss the best way to hold hybrid sittings and act for the people of Mégantic—L’Érable and all the other ridings. The Liberal government chose to limit debate on its very first motion. That gives us an idea of what to expect in the coming weeks and months. It is all hypocrisy, with the speeches we have heard from a number government members since this morning, and especially from the government House leader. I will get back to this later. It is pretty much the same thing with the NDP, who chose to support the Liberals in this closure motion. To a lesser extent, it is the same with the Bloc Québécois. At least the Bloc Québécois members agree that we should continue to be physically present in the House. I will get back to this morning’s comments by the government House leader. He was very eloquent, very loquacious, and especially very much the political hack. I do not know how many times he repeated that the Liberals are eager to get back to work. However, at the first opportunity, as I mentioned, they imposed closure on an opportunity to get to work to ensure that Canadians across the country have a voice in the House. In his speech, the government leader wondered why the official opposition would refuse to give its unconditional consent for a hybrid parliament until June 2022, as we did the first time. The opposition is not the reason and that is not where the answer lies. If we do not consent, the government leader should rather look to his own side of the aisle. He should look around him to understand why the Conservatives cannot give their consent to today’s motion, why they cannot blindly trust the government. We want to talk about inflation, the labour shortage, the economic recovery, or the cost of living, which is rising at an alarming rate. We also want to hold the government to account for the CanSino agreement that deprived Canadians of the vaccine at the start of the pandemic, when they really needed it, for the lab in Winnipeg and the government’s deliberate decision to keep important information from Canadians, and for the decision to trigger an election in the middle of a pandemic, an election that nobody wanted and that clearly showed that the Prime Minister is completely disconnected from what Canadians really want. When he called the election, the Prime Minister even said that this would be the most important election since World War II. He was certain he would win a majority government. Otherwise, he would not have called an election. I can imagine the Prime Minister picturing himself winning the most important election in Canada's history. He gambled and lost. We still have a minority government, and Parliament has barely changed, except for a few nice surprises: some eager new Conservative members have joined us and are now here in the House. This morning, the government House leader was getting melodramatic, saying that, by refusing to support this motion, the opposition was preventing Parliament from resuming its activities by delaying it by a day. How much time did it take for the Prime Minister to recall Parliament after his failed bid to seize full control of the House? How long did it take before he met with members of his own caucus? One thing is certain: it took him far less time to organize a couple of days of surfing in Tofino. It took more than two months before the Prime Minister deigned to recall the House, two months after an election that nobody wanted but that was so important to him. Today, the Liberals are trying to make Canadians believe that time is short. I have never seen anyone so good at talking out of both sides of their mouths. I would like to tell Canadians what went on in the House in the final months of the 43rd Parliament. When members were allowed to attend in person, in numbers set by the parties and the House in accordance with all public health guidelines, which parties showed up to represent their constituents? Which members came to the House in person? Which ministers looked the opposition parties in the eye and answered their valid questions? I was sitting over here, and I asked questions every time the rules allowed me to. I asked questions about WE Charity, the Lac-Mégantic bypass and the labour shortage. We were used to hearing ministers read prepared answers, but what we saw during that period was worse than ever. The Prime Minister's lines came in so fast, it felt like the ministers were receiving their answers by email on their computers. I sat here as often as the rules allowed, as often as the House wanted, and I noticed just how much the Liberals, by which I mean all of them, not just the members and ministers, preferred to stay in the comfort of their own home or even their office on the Hill a few feet away rather than enter the hallowed walls of this House. The leaders had decided how many members of each party could sit here safely. We followed the rules to the letter. We were allowed about 20 members on this side. On the other side of the aisle, they were allowed about 30. Each time I came, I took the time to see whether people were following the rules. I would start by looking at the Liberal benches and counting the empty seats—

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The Deputy Speaker

Nov/25/21 1:30:23 p.m.
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The member for Glengarry—Prescott—Russell on a point of order.

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Mr. Francis Drouin (Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, Lib.)

Nov/25/21 1:30:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, congratulations on your election. The member opposite rose earlier to drive home the fact that we cannot make reference to a member's presence or absence in the House, yet he is doing just that right now. I would ask him to withdraw his comments.

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Mr. Luc Berthold

Nov/25/21 1:31:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, in response to this point of order, I was not referring to any one member in particular but to all of the empty seats on the other side of the House. There is only one seat that was not empty and has not been for a long time, and I was happy to see that. I did the same thing with the ministers, but I will not repeat what I said to avoid another point of order. However, I can say that the number was not one. It was zero. There was nobody here to look me in the eye and answer my questions. The ministers chose to respond on screen. They chose to answer on camera instead of looking me in the eye and answering my questions. We are here to discuss a hybrid Parliament, and it is important to raise that issue. Today, the Leader of the Government in the House told us that, by some miracle, the ministers will be here and will answer our questions, and members have repeated that. However, the ministers could have been doing that for months now, but they have not done so. They have not shown up at all to answer the opposition members' questions. How can we trust them now? The Prime Minister clearly likes crowds. People like asking the Prime Minister questions. However, do my colleagues honestly believe that the Prime Minister will show up in the House to answer questions at any time other than Wednesday without his scrum of supporters right behind him? All members have the right to ask questions and to expect meaningful answers for their constituents. That is why, as the member for Mégantic—L'Érable, I will be here. I hope that all my colleagues, whatever their riding across the country, will follow my lead and want to show up on site, take their seats, and stand up for their constituents.

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The Deputy Speaker

Nov/25/21 1:33:15 p.m.
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I have a quick comment on the point of order. I want to ensure that we all remember that we cannot do something indirectly that we cannot do directly. We cannot infer things that we are not allowed to infer. The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.)

Nov/25/21 1:33:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am absolutely perplexed by the last comments of the member. We would think he had not been here. The Prime Minister was here answering questions for about four months without anybody behind him. Why would the member suggest that the Prime Minister will not come here, when he knows, to their own claim, that the Prime Minister was the only one who was physically present in the House? Is the member aware of that or was he not working during that time? We were doing important work even though a lot of it was virtual. Perhaps the member was not doing anything and that is why he was not aware of the fact that the Prime Minister had actually been here participating and answering questions from this very chamber.

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Mr. Luc Berthold

Nov/25/21 1:34:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would just like to reiterate that, much like we cannot talk about members being absent from the House, we also cannot talk about members being present. I want to point that out to my hon. colleague. If the Liberals are going to feed us that line, two can play at that game. The most important thing to remember is that we have a unique opportunity right now to be here in the House to stand up for our constituents. I feel that is what people expect of us. In the last election campaign, I did not meet a single constituent who congratulated me because I looked good on screen when I wanted to represent them. What people want is for me to be here in the House with my colleagues so that I can ask questions and, most importantly, make progress on my constituents' concerns.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Nov/25/21 1:35:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I do have some concerns. The member spoke about not working when we are actually online. During the beginning of this pandemic, we did have to be online to work. It was very important. I am very proud to say that I attended 100% of the online sessions of this place. I do know that many of my Alberta colleagues did not. In fact, some of them attended none. I wonder if the member's actual concern is that his colleagues may not show up for work if we have an online session.

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Mr. Luc Berthold

Nov/25/21 1:36:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am very proud to say that my colleagues were there at every session we had the opportunity to attend in the House, whether they were from British Columbia, Alberta, Quebec or Ontario. When we had the chance to be in the House to speak on behalf of our constituents, we flew or drove so that we could come and do our work where it should be done, in the House of Commons.

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Mr. Denis Trudel (Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, BQ)

Nov/25/21 1:36:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, one thing has struck me since this morning and since we have been discussing this matter. It is the approach of the Liberal Party's farm team, meaning the NDP. Instead of attacking the government, the NDP is attacking the second opposition, the Bloc Québécois. That is quite something. I wonder if this is not somewhat related to the fact that the former member for Longueuil—Saint‑Hubert, Pierre Nantel, recently ran for a pro-independence party in Quebec City, namely, the Parti Québécois. During his press conference, which I attended, Pierre Nantel said that for eight years, he had been a member of a party, the NDP. He said that he had worked hard to change legislation on the environment, the French language and culture, and that it had not worked. He went on to say that for eight years, he tested the system, Parliament and Canada and that on all these issues, there was only one answer: Quebec independence. The question I want to ask my colleague is this: What does he think about the alliance between the Liberal Party and the AAA Midget team, in other words, the NDP?

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Mr. Luc Berthold

Nov/25/21 1:37:50 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is moments like these that make the House so dynamic: seeing colleagues debate back and forth, since we each have different interests to defend. I certainly do not share my colleague's desire for independence. However, I too can see that there is a coalition. I would not go so far as to call the New Democrats “midgets”, but there is a fairly obvious coalition between them and the Liberal Party.

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Mr. James Bezan (Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, CPC)

Nov/25/21 1:38:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise for the first time in the 44th Parliament. I want to congratulate you for your ascension to such a great chair and presiding over these important meetings. I also want to thank all the voters back in Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman for putting their trust in me for the seventh time. I thank my family and, of course, all the great volunteers who worked tirelessly on our campaign. This is such an important debate. The idea that again the Liberals, with the NDP, want to go back into their basements and Zoom Parliament is so disheartening. As someone who has been in the chamber since 2004, it is important that we have the opportunity to look each other in the eye, to carry on these discussions, to be empathetic and to read the room. We cannot do that when we are sitting in a Zoom call. We cannot do that when people are shutting off their cameras and wandering away from the computer. They are not able to see every member in the House. Nor do they have the ability to have the sidebar conversations with their colleagues on both sides of the aisle, with all parties. For all the newly elected MPs sitting in the Liberal caucus right now, as well as our own MPs who were just elected, some of the most important work they will ever do for their constituents is by having the opportunity to approach the ministers right in the chamber, to pass them a letter from a constituent, to sit down and talk about a problem with an infrastructure project that may be under way in their riding or to talk about refugee files and immigration cases directly with the minister or the parliamentary secretary. When we try to do that on Zoom, people are just too busy and shut off the camera or mute their microphones. That is not the way Parliament is meant to work. If we respect this institution, we will do what the people elected us to do in all 338 ridings. That means taking our place in the chamber, in our seats, and advocating for them publicly in this forum or in private sidebar conversations we can have in the chamber, in the lobbies or in the committee room. One of the reasons the Liberals want to close down Parliament to in-person sittings is that it works so well for them to be non-transparent and not to be held accountable. A case in point is what happened to the Standing Committee on National Defence, which, in the last Parliament, was doing a study into sexual misconduct within the Canadian Armed Forces by former chiefs of the defence staff. The Liberals were able to use the argument that there were not enough House resources for the committees to keep meeting, and would suspend meetings indefinitely. They never had the ability to adjourn a meeting because they did not have consent, so chairs were instructed by the Liberal whip to just suspend, and the Liberals would leave the room. When we had reports to write, when there were witnesses to be called, the Liberals would suspend the meetings indefinitely. Meeting 26 of the Standing Committee on National Defence was suspended from April 19 to April 23. It was the same meeting running over all those days. Meeting 28 was suspended from April 30 to May 7. Then they realized this was working so well that meeting 32, when we were trying to draft the report to come back to the House on how to deal with sexual misconduct within the Canadian Armed Forces, the Liberals filibustered committees and suspended meetings endlessly from May 21 to June 21. There were 21 sittings days, 505 hours of filibuster, and there was no report to table in the chamber. That is not only a failure of our democracy; it is a failure to the brave women and men who serve in our Canadian Armed Forces. We could not even get a report tabled in the House. That is not how Parliament is meant to work. If there are going to be difficult conversations, then let us have those difficult conversations in committee. If that means committees are sitting for hours on end because of procedural moves that members will take, both in government and in opposition parties, to filibuster, let them talk it out. At some point in time a decision will be made. However, to use technology and the argument of the lack of resources from the House of Commons is no way to conduct the business of the people of Canada. I know it is great to be at home with our families. It is great that while we are there, we can be a little more in touch with our constituents. However, during COVID there were not as many activities and events to attend. Some of that is starting to come alive again. When we were door knocking, canvassing our constituents and asking for their support, they were not saying they wanted us to be at the Rotary club breakfast or to stop by the legion for the meat draw. It is great that we can do those things, but our constituents have elected us to be here. Again, it comes down to this being all about the Liberals trying to cover up, not to be held to account and us not having the ability to interact with cabinet. One of the great things in our Westminster system is that the executive branch of government sits in the House of Commons with the legislators. An hon. member: Not anymore. Mr. James Bezan: No, not anymore, because the Prime Minister, who definitely does not like coming here, and it is debatable whether he even likes his job anymore, is trying to avoid listening to all the voices in the chamber rather than just who sits at the cabinet table. It is so disheartening to see the New Democrats being the enablers. If NDP members are going to sit here and take their orders from the Liberal whip and House leader instead of standing up and being independent members, then maybe they should be telling all their constituents back home to vote for a Liberal instead of an NDP member. The Conservatives will be more than happy to put forward strong Conservative candidates in those ridings next time around, who want to be here, who want to serve the people and who want to carry forward the constituents' voices and the issues they need addressed in the chamber. We can see the Liberals coaching the NDP members. It is great that their coalition is working so well and that they get along like that. We are here to carry forward the voices of the people who elected us. We are here to protect this institution, which should be treasured by each and every one of us. While sitting in our basements and home offices, turning off the camera, turning it back on when when we want and using the voting app might be convenient, that is not how democracy works. That is not how Canadians expect us to be. They are generous and charitable in how much we are remunerated for this job and they expect us to do the hard work, which requires us to be in our seats representing their views, their values and the important things in our ridings.

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Mr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.)

Nov/25/21 1:47:51 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have a couple of points of clarification before I get to my question. One is that I do want to be here, but I want to ensure that the privileges of parliamentarians are extended in cases that they need to be. Second, the member for Mégantic—L'Érable who spoke previously poked fun at some of the ministers' responses to the questions they had to get by email. I sit on this side of the House and I think Canadians liked and were fine with the answers the ministers provided. What about a situation where the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Immigration, the Prime Minister or our frontbench had exposure to COVID? By the Conservatives not allowing a virtual hybrid Parliament, are they not denying the accountability that they seem to want? I want to hear from the Minister of Finance when she answers questions, but we need to have that in case something, God forbid, does happen.

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Mr. James Bezan

Nov/25/21 1:48:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Westminster parliamentary system has survived for centuries. It has survived here with in-person sittings through pandemics, like the Spanish flu and SARS. Even if we have a situation where members of Parliament and cabinet ministers become ill, there is an age-old tradition called pairing that we could implement. We have parliamentary secretaries who can answer on behalf of ministers. We have ministers who can carry on with other portfolios in the short term for ministers who have to take a leave because of personal health reasons, which could include COVID. That is not a reason for shutting down the way democracy is supposed to work.

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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

Nov/25/21 1:49:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I apologize to my colleague from Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman that so many people have made this point in the House, but I want to put it to him so that he can check with the hon. member for Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola. The Glasgow conference was not a hobnobbing event, nor did we rub shoulders. We were not only required to be double vaccinated, but were required to take a daily COVID test to provide proof to the National Health Service before being admitted to the building, where we had to remain masked and were not allowed to fill plenary sessions. We were kept to a minimum number of people and worked at a distance in very unpleasant working conditions. As I said, his hard-working colleague, the hon. member for Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, attended for the whole two weeks and I think will verify what I have said.

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Mr. James Bezan

Nov/25/21 1:50:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we know for a fact that the people of Glasgow were quite concerned that not all countries required participants to be double vaccinated. They may have been testing daily with rapid tests, which is something we could do here quite easily, even for those of us who are vaccinated, but there is no reason we need to be doing things differently here. If people can show up in the thousands in Glasgow and people can show up at football stadiums and hockey arenas, why can we not be sitting in this chamber? It is completely baffling to most Canadians to see the Liberals and the NDP arguing against having in-person sessions.

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Mrs. Caroline Desbiens (Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, BQ)

Nov/25/21 1:51:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to engage with my colleague from the Conservative Party and insist that science must dominate all our considerations. There is a new wave on the horizon and a third dose of the vaccine may be necessary. In Parliament, I think we can come to an agreement on appropriate measures so we can meet in person. I would like to know if my colleague believes that a third dose could provide the ideal solution for this Parliament.

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