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Nov/25/21 3:26:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as we saw in the Speech from the Throne, we have a government that talks the talk but does not walk the walk. We have a government that talks about science, but that does not act on it. Can someone explain to me why the City of Montreal, the Quebec National Assembly, the City of Toronto and the City of Winnipeg can offer their citizens functioning legislatures and municipalities while here, in Ottawa, we are told it would be impossible?

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Mr. Kody Blois

Nov/25/21 3:26:41 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague opposite for his question. The examples he gave were local ones. The City of Montreal, the Government of Quebec and other local jurisdictions. This is the Parliament of Canada, and members come from all across the country, from coast to coast to coast. I think it is in the best interests of members to have the option to participate virtually when necessary.

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Mr. Alex Ruff (Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, CPC)

Nov/25/21 3:27:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as this is the first time I am speaking in the House, I want to thank my constituents for putting me back here for the second time. I have a couple of really quick yes-or-no questions for the member opposite that I am confident he will actually answer, unlike maybe his colleague from Winnipeg North. First, would he say that it would be preferable for the rhetoric in the House to be toned down, yes or no? Second, would he agree that it is a lot easier to build relationships in person than it is through a hybrid Parliament? Finally, I have a comment. The member should talk to the member for Winnipeg North. He spoke yesterday during this debate about extending the motion past the June timeline.

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Mr. Kody Blois

Nov/25/21 3:28:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate the member opposite for his re-election to this place. I was taking notes, and yes, of course it is preferable to be here. As a new member, I felt like I was not able to fully participate because of the COVID pandemic. It was isolating at times to be at home. To his point about building relationships, I agree. In fact, I built many good relationships with the members opposite, particularly at the agriculture committee and the public accounts committee, in the last session. I will continue to be here in person, but I want to make sure that members have the ability to continue their privileges in the event that they are exposed to COVID-19 or their partner or a family member has to isolate. They should still have their privileges. We can continue to have respectful decorum and relationships, but we can also protect members' privileges when necessary.

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Mr. Darrell Samson (Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, Lib.)

Nov/25/21 3:29:18 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to stand in the 44th Parliament to once again represent the great people of Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook. That is in Nova Scotia, of course. I want to thank them for electing me for a third time and giving me the privilege of continuing to represent them, speak on their behalf and advocate for them and all of the communities in my riding. I also want to thank the volunteers in my riding who came out to support the democratic process and do the work that is so important in delivering the message of Canadians during an election. What we were committed to is how to deliver that. That is really important. Finally, I want to thank my family, because we all know that when one of us is running, the whole family is in it together. It is a challenge, but it is an enjoyable experience and I would do it again, maybe. I am very pleased to speak to the motion we are debating today, to bring back a hybrid Parliament, and in particular to speak on social topics such as our working and private lives. More and more studies are showing that a flexible work environment has a lot of advantages. For example, it can reduce stress and increase satisfaction at work, on top of increasing productivity, which is a very important consideration. Canadians continue to develop this work-life balance. I think COVID-19 has shown that people can be very productive and successful in this type of system. A recent survey of Canada conducted by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development reported that decision-makers should look at implementing policies that would help Canada achieve a resilient and healthy post-pandemic society. That is also why we promised during the election campaign to amend the Canada Labour Code with certain very important principles in mind. We want to strengthen the code's provisions to better support women who must be temporarily assigned to other duties during their pregnancy, include mental health in workplace health and safety standards, require employers to take preventive measures against stress and the risk of workplace injury, provide all federally regulated workers with 10 days of paid sick leave and work with federally regulated employers and groups representing workers to develop a policy on the right to disconnect, which would let workers disconnect without having to worry about their job security. Since March 2020, the pandemic has forced us to change how we work and, to a certain extent, to reinvent work. An unprecedented number of Canadian employers have had to adapt and be more flexible over the past 20 months. Accordingly, telework and virtual schooling have led to huge changes with many positive effects. Virtual schooling has existed for quite some time and the pandemic has done much to advance this essential virtual programming. Despite the many benefits of teleworking, the closure of schools and school day care centres caused additional stress for many parents. That is why our government strongly believes in the right to disconnect. We are doing everything we can to manage the pandemic and accept that a return to normal will require a healthy work-life balance. The House of Commons Administration also demonstrated tremendous creativity and adaptability. It did an outstanding job delivering a hybrid parliament in such a short time. For 150 years, we had no other way to vote than to be physically present in the House. Suddenly, thanks to the exceptional work of the House of Commons Administration, we managed to do it, and we will be able to use this system for years to come. That is what it means to learn and to make the most of a difficult situation. The motion we are debating today is very similar to the one we discussed in the last Parliament. Yes, the vaccination rate has increased, the Pfizer vaccine has been approved for children aged 5 to 11 and the third dose is available. However, the situation is still precarious, and the number of cases is increasing because of the season, as we are going into winter. We are already seeing those numbers go up across Canada, and that is why we need to find ways to make this work. It is extremely important that we be able to work. Whether it is from this building or elsewhere, we must be able to work. Whether we vote here in the House or elsewhere, we must be able to vote and represent our constituents. If we find ourselves at home an extra day to participate in an important activity in our community, that is even better for our constituents. That is our job; we have done it before and we will continue to do it in the future.

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Ms. Andréanne Larouche (Shefford, BQ)

Nov/25/21 3:36:21 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. After listening to it, I am wondering whether he actually wants the hybrid model to become the usual practice. Is that really what he wants? Our role, the reason why we were elected, is to come to Ottawa to debate and legislate. That is why the people of Shefford elected me. I have a little story to tell. Tuesday evening, I went to the Bell Centre to see the Genesis concert. There were thousands of people there. I showed my vaccine passport, washed my hands and wore my mask. I never felt unsafe. If the Government of Quebec is allowing thousands of people to gather when proper health measures are followed, can my colleague explain why we cannot do the same here? Is a Genesis concert more important than our role as parliamentarians?

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Mr. Darrell Samson

Nov/25/21 3:37:15 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate my colleague's comments, and I want to congratulate her on getting re-elected. There is absolutely nothing in this motion that says that she cannot come to the House if she wants to. She has the right to come here every day. What is important is that she can do her work here when she has to be here, and if something really important comes up in her riding that she is involved in, then she can be there to help promote projects that are important to her constituents. She will not lose her right to vote. I once had to leave the House for 36 hours while my wife was having surgery. I missed 22 votes because there was a marathon of votes. Is that right? Did I have the democratic right to vote? Was I representing my constituents? No. With the proposed model, we will be able to do that.

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Mr. Stephen Ellis (Cumberland—Colchester, CPC)

Nov/25/21 3:38:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is interesting that my hon. colleagues across the aisle continue to talk about science. I am not sure how many scientists there are over there, but that is a whole other matter. It is important that we look at this. We have never done this before, besides last year. How many people really know that it works? Is it effective? Have we really studied it? We have not. I think it a shame that after 150-odd years of Parliament in Canada we allow the opposite side to control the destiny of democracy in Canada without any study at all, and to say that this is a virtual Parliament that is going to go on forever. When are we going to look at the science that all the Liberals continue to speak about?

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Mr. Darrell Samson

Nov/25/21 3:39:08 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to congratulate my colleague from Nova Scotia for being elected to the House of Commons. As he knows, we represent people and communities. It is our responsibility no matter where we live to support them. I congratulate him for being here. I know my poor colleague was not here in the last six years, when the party across the floor refused to listen to science. Even today, it is still refusing to listen to science. Just because we did not do it for the first 150 years does not mean it is not good and we cannot do it. That is what is very important. This is an opportunity to allow us to do our jobs even better.

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Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Salaberry—Suroît, BQ)

Nov/25/21 3:40:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his speech. Something made me prick up my ears. I am a whip, I helped create the hybrid Parliament and I am going to say quite frankly that it is a temporary tool to get through a pandemic. I am hearing that telework is becoming more and more popular, that it is flexible and so on. Am I hearing that the government wants to change how Parliament works? That it wants to fundamentally alter Parliament just like that with one motion? A story cannot be changed. Telework is practical, but parliamentarians are elected to sit here in the House.

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Mr. Darrell Samson

Nov/25/21 3:40:47 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, once again I want to thank my colleague for her question and comments. She needs to understand that the motion before us does not say it is forever. That is not how I read it. Like my colleague said earlier, I understand that it lasts until June 23, 2022. That is what the motion on the table says, and my speech reflects this motion.

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Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)

Nov/25/21 3:41:21 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to let you know that I intend to share my time with my delightful colleague from Laurentides—Labelle. I would like to wish her a very happy birthday once again. She turned 23 yesterday, so I would again like to wish my colleague a happy birthday. I hope you do not mind, Madam Speaker, if I take this opportunity to recognize the people who supported me during the campaign this autumn. I am thinking of the family members who, by force of circumstance, have become our most fervent volunteers and our most fervent admirers. I am thinking of our teams around us and, above all, we are thinking of the voters who have given us their trust. As we all know, sometimes we can say that the first time is perhaps an accident, but I can confirm that the second time is a mark of confidence that is appreciated all the more. My thanks to all the volunteers who worked on my campaign, I see them not only as thanks, but also as a prelude to what I am about to discuss, because this team was on the warpath for months preparing for an election that was coming, we did not know when. That is always what happens in a minority government. They were also called upon to reinvent themselves, according to the somewhat overused term we heard during the pandemic. We also wondered why the Liberals called an election during a pandemic. In Parliament, we even voted on a motion stating that it was irresponsible to hold an election during a pandemic, but that clearly did not bother the government since it went ahead and called one anyway. One also has to wonder what has changed so much since the time of the election and now, since during the election it was fine to travel from one province to another and the borders were not closed. What has changed so much that we now need to adopt a hybrid system of Parliament? As far as I know, things have improved somewhat and some restrictions have been lifted. Restaurants are able to welcome more customers at a time and there are no longer any limits on the number of people allowed at theatres. We stopped limiting the number of people who can go into the grocery store at one time. I do not think that things have gotten so bad that we have to go back to a hybrid system of Parliament. The current situation is not ideal. The ideal situation would be if there were no pandemic. However, there is one and we must live with it. In this context, I would say that the Bloc's proposal for how we should work during the pandemic is the most balanced and the most reasonable: The 338 members would return in person and everyone would provide proof of double vaccination. That is the closest to what we are seeing in all societies that have put in place strict health measures. The arguments made by my colleague from Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook to justify hybrid sittings do not entirely have to do with the pandemic. This further bolsters my belief that we are being fed false arguments and that the pandemic is but a pretext to avoid returning to the House and being accountable to the people we represent. I find that there are false pretenses behind this. I hear arguments about sick leave, maternity leave or snow storms. I am not saying that those are not legitimate concerns, but now is not the time to be talking about them, and during a pandemic is definitely not the time to be having this debate. Last summer I sat on the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, where we nailed down the ins and outs of a hybrid Parliament. During our discussions, we said that it was not the time to be making these kinds of arguments for a broader discussion on a hybrid Parliament. I get the feeling that this is what people are doing here today. The motion will clearly be adopted and the hybrid system will soon be back. People are telling us that a hybrid Parliament is so important because they are worried about their health and want to be safe. I do not think there is any guarantee that the people we see on Zoom will spend the rest of the week in their basement, avoiding meeting with constituents, turning down meetings, not going to bingos or spaghetti suppers, and not campaigning in their ridings while they are supposed to be here, in Parliament. I really want to stress that hybrid sittings mean we lose the natural, organic contact with our colleagues that we have seen over the course of these four sitting days. We lose the opportunity for one-on-ones with a minister, a colleague, a critic or a fellow parliamentary committee member. That kind of thing is not easy on Zoom. The same thing happened in parliamentary committees. Not only are Zoom committee meetings more arduous, but they also do not afford members the opportunity to glance at a colleague in a way that says, “Let us meet at the coffee station to discuss something” while still following the conversation. Zoom meetings are not nearly as effective. I think the biggest downside of all is lack of accountability. That may be why government members are the ones who seem most keen on the hybrid model. Virtual attendance means no reporters waiting for them on their way out of the House of Commons. All they have to do is click on “Leave” to dodge any accountability to the fourth estate, the press. We also forget the work of the support staff, who we burned out by using the hybrid model. I am thinking about the IT group. We have to tip our hat to them because they performed miracles, but we wore them out by using the hybrid model so much. I am also thinking about the interpreters, whose sound quality during Zoom meetings was quite bad most of the time. We exhausted them as well. Returning to normal would do them a favour. I am anticipating certain questions, so let me answer them immediately. If I answer them ahead of time, then my colleagues will not need to ask them. I invite them to come up with other questions to ask me. We have been asked how this will work if the situation deteriorates while we are in normal mode. In that case, we will do the same thing as last time. We will turn things around in 24 hours and bring in a hybrid Parliament, especially now that we already have the necessary technology. There have also been questions about how we will know if the situation has gotten worse. We will just have to look at what is going on in the provinces and in Quebec. Any new lockdowns would be an indication that the hybrid system should be brought back. It would be a relatively simple and quick process. We already know that it is possible. There have been questions about members who may be immunocompromised and who may be afraid of coming to Parliament. I do not get the impression that the majority of members of Parliament are immunocompromised. If it turns out that there are members who are immunocompromised, which remains to be proven, they would probably be the exception. By bringing in a hybrid Parliament, the government is enforcing a universal standard to cater to special cases. The standard should be that members come in person because that is why we were elected. These supposedly immunocompromised members, if there are any here, probably campaigned outside of their basements. We are also hearing the argument that some people have young unvaccinated children and they are worried about bringing COVID-19 home to them. We are about to start vaccinating younger children. Because of that, the argument already holds much less water. However, I would be curious to know whether members who have young children stop them from going to the movies, going to shows and seeing other people. Are they home-schooling to ensure that the children are not at risk? I think that is a fair question. All that to say that the motion we are debating seems much more bogus. It seems to be using the pandemic for purely political and partisan purposes, and that is what I find really disappointing. Moreover, the government is already anticipating that this measure will stay in place until June 23, 2022. June 23 is seven months away. If we go back the same amount of time, seven months ago, I could not even get on a waiting list for my vaccine. A lot of water has gone under the bridge in the past seven months. I expect that a lot will happen too. If the government wants to go so far with this right off the bat, surely that just confirms how partisan this measure is.

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Mr. Fayçal El-Khoury (Laval—Les Îles, Lib.)

Nov/25/21 3:51:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech, and I would like to wish the other member a happy birthday. We all know that COVID‑19 is a very contagious disease. All the peer-reviewed scientific studies show that the risk of death in vaccinated individuals is practically 0%. My question for my colleague is this: If a person decides not to get vaccinated and risk their own life, that may be their right, but does that person have the right to endanger the lives of others?

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Ms. Christine Normandin

Nov/25/21 3:51:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, that sounds more like a question for a member of another party than for a Bloc member. The answer is simple. Our solution is the most balanced approach. We want a return to in-person sittings with everyone providing proof of double vaccination.

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Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.)

Nov/25/21 3:52:05 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate my hon. colleague on her election and on her speech. Today, in Ontario, 748 new COVID cases have been reported. As of yesterday, 15 of Ontario's public schools were closed due to COVID spread. In the 43rd Parliament, a person like me who has a compromised immune system was able to fulfill their duties as a member of Parliament. I was able to vote in spite of having COVID for two weeks. I was able to vote and I was able to chair a committee. However, not knowing how many members across the aisle are not vaccinated, why should we put the health and safety of some members at risk when, with a hybrid Parliament, we can perform our duties as members of Parliament, and we have done that?

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Ms. Christine Normandin

Nov/25/21 3:53:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question, and I am sorry that I do not see her anymore. I may not be on the same committee as her, but I want to tell her that I enjoyed sitting next to her during the last Parliament. Once again, our proposal settles the matter of double vaccination. We want everyone who enters the parliamentary precinct to be double-vaccinated. Beyond that, the real question is this: What is the balance between parliamentarians' rights and their obligations? This proposal seems to completely overlook parliamentarians' responsibilities and obligations, which includes the governing party's responsibility and obligation to be in the House to answer the opposition's questions. All we are hearing the Liberals talk about is rights. They are avoiding the issue of responsibilities.

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Mr. Stephen Ellis (Cumberland—Colchester, CPC)

Nov/25/21 3:53:54 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I really want to congratulate my Liberal colleagues on how much concern they have over the people who are not immunized. It is fascinating, but in my mind, as a scientist, I really wonder how, if someone were unvaccinated and got COVID, it would make the lives of all these people who are vaccinated doubly so much worse. I fail to understand that. Perhaps someone could please explain that to me. It really makes no sense to me whatsoever.

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Ms. Christine Normandin

Nov/25/21 3:54:28 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I understand that the question was not addressed directly to me, but I would still like to try to answer it. Science has proven its worth. A person who is unvaccinated has a much higher viral load. Although double vaccination affords adequate protection, it is not perfect. We can still have symptoms of COVID‑19. The ideal solution is for people to get double-vaccinated and to return to the House in person.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Nov/25/21 3:54:53 p.m.
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We have just enough time for one short question. The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

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Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP)

Nov/25/21 3:55:01 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as we have seen, the number of COVID‑19 cases continues to rise in Europe, and several countries have already gone back into lockdown. We are seeing a resurgence of the pandemic across Canada, including in my riding, New Westminster—Burnaby. We also know that the vaccine is starting to lose its effectiveness over time. For all these reasons, I would like to ask my hon. colleague the following question. With the number of COVID‑19 cases on the rise everywhere, including in Quebec, why is she taking this matter so lightly?

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