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Jan/31/22 8:01:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we have seen that Canada's role in the world has been diminished. Consecutive Conservative and Liberal governments have been cutting our resources, whether it is the diplomatic corps or our peace-keeping roles. If we had that role, we could play a greater partnership in pushing for peace and we could have a greater impact on the global stage, and that is something the New Democrats have continued to push for, increasing our peace keeping and our federal diplomatic corps, so that we can can play that role in pushing for and promoting peace.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Jan/31/22 8:01:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my leader, the member for Burnaby South, for his comments tonight in support of the Ukrainian community. As many people have said before tonight, Canada has a very special relationship with Ukraine. Canada was the first country to recognize Ukraine as an independent sovereign country 30 years ago. There are over 1.4 million Canadians who identify as being of Ukrainian heritage in Canada, and while Ukrainians have chosen to settle in communities across Canada, nowhere else has their impact been as great as within the prairie provinces, such as my own home province of Alberta. Ukrainians have been instrumental in building our communities, our cities, our provinces and our country. Edmonton has a strong, vibrant Ukrainian community. Recently, I visited one of my dear friends, Theodora Harasymiw. She is a Ukrainian artist. She makes unbelievably beautiful mosaics that celebrate the pride and the history of the Ukrainian people in Canada, and I am very proud to say that the New Democratic Party stands strongly in solidarity with the people of Ukraine. Over the years, my NDP colleagues have called repeatedly for greater support for Ukraine through increased development aid, for democratic and governance support, for Canada to extend visa-free travel to Ukrainians and for increased trade relationships, such as the 2016 Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement. Linda Duncan, my predecessor in this position, with whom many members have worked, was actually awarded the Executive Hetman Award for her support of Ukraine and the Ukrainian Canadian community. As the NDP foreign affairs critic and the vice-chair of the Canada-Ukraine Friendship Group, I will continue the work that has been done by my NDP colleagues to strengthen Canada-Ukraine relations, and it is that special relationship that has me rising to speak in the House today. At this moment in time, when Ukrainian Canadians are so worried about their friends and families, and people in Ukraine are increasingly being threatened by an aggressive and belligerent Russia, Canada must do more to work with its allies. We must work with the United Nations, we must work with the OSCE and we must work with NATO to find real diplomatic solutions to this looming crisis. Canada must not escalate and inflame an already precarious situation, but rather focus its efforts on diplomacy, non-lethal assistance and economic sanctions, including Magnitsky sanctions, to deter Russia from escalating this conflict. I am worried about my friends, and I am worried about everyone in Ukraine. We cannot give Putin a further excuse to invade. We have to use every diplomatic tool we have, including sanctions, to prevent a devastating war that would cost lives. If Russia further invades into Ukrainian territory, Ukrainians would pay the price. Ukrainian civilians would be injured, displaced and killed. Children and women in Ukraine would bear the brunt of this violence, and those impacts would be felt for decades or longer. UN Secretary General Guterres has urged the use of diplomacy, stating that there should not be any military intervention, but rather that diplomacy is the way to solve the problems. Under-Secretary General for Political and Peacebuilding Affairs Rosemary DiCarlo repeated that any military intervention involving Russia or NATO alliance forces must be averted. Canadian Global Affairs Institute fellow Andrew Rasiulis, a defence expert and former Department of National Defence official, has explicitly said that if Canada sends arms to Ukraine, it would aggravate the situation: You’d be neutralizing your effect. If you put arms in and then try to negotiate—you could do both, there’s no law against it—but you’d be neutralizing your effect. There is still time. Working with its allies, Canada can de-escalate this conflict. We can use economic sanctions. We can include removal of Russia from the SWIFT international payment system and place sanctions on Russia's sovereign debt. How we respond to this crisis and how we use diplomacy and sanctions to de-escalate this crisis will be an indication of whether Canada is indeed back on the world stage.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jan/31/22 8:07:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to pick up on the statement that Canada does have a very special and unique relationship with Ukraine. When something is happening in Ukraine, it matters in Canada, not only to the 1.4 million people of Ukrainian-Canadian heritage but to Canadians as a whole. That is why we need to have the government engaged, and the $120-million loan is badly needed. It is warranted and it is supported by the government. We have seen a need over the years to train 30,000 military personnel in Ukraine, and to enter into agreements such as the free trade agreement to give more hope to the people of Ukraine and here in Canada. I am hoping we will hear more tonight about that special relationship, and through that special relationship we have an obligation. I believe the government needs to continue to move forward responsibly, as we have, thinking in terms of how we can support the people of Ukraine. Could my colleague provide her thoughts on that?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Jan/31/22 8:08:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for again highlighting just how important the relationship is that we have with Ukraine. There are many things we could do right now. We could work with sanctions. We should in fact be investing more in our diplomatic corps so that when there are conflicts around the world Canada could take back that place that we have seen so diminished, under both the Conservatives and the Liberals. We do not have a peacekeeping diplomatic corps. We are no longer the convener of world peace. We are no longer who we should be, and it is disappointing. I would like to see Canada invest in things like international development, in our diplomatic corps and in peacekeepers. We had promises of peacekeepers going out into the field that have not been met. It has not even been close. There are so many more things we could do that would help in situations like what we are facing in Ukraine and in future situations. This is not the first time, and it is not the last time, that a bully is going to try to invade and impose its will on another country.

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Mr. Tom Kmiec (Calgary Shepard, CPC)

Jan/31/22 8:09:39 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will just respond to some of the member's comments. I do not know if I will have a question. It is more just a commentary. She compared the Russian Federation and President Putin with a bully. We know that bullies only respond to strength, not to more talking. At this point, more talking without some type of action, without a response that strengthens Ukraine's capacity to defend itself, is just going to encourage President Putin and the military to keep preparing for war. They have been moving troops into Belarus on this fake training exercise, so they have this longer undefended border that they could invade through. Other countries are already contributing firearms and weapons to Ukraine, whether Turkey, Latvia, Estonia or Poland. They have been providing arms to Ukraine. We know they need to defend themselves. They need the means to try to equalize the huge differences in forces between an all-weather, very professional combat force in the Russian military, and Ukraine, which is still trying to pick itself out of fighting an endless war with Russian separatists, supported by the Russian Federation. More talk is not going to achieve this. The bully is not going to go away. The bully is getting more arms, more people and more weapons, and it is delivering more crushing blows to the Ukrainian government.

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Jan/31/22 8:10:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have to disagree with my colleague across the way. Hitting a bully is not the best way to deal with bullying. Realistically, I have a 13-year-old son, and I certainly would not want the member advising him how to deal with bullying at his school. I think there are better ways for us to do that. There are more responsible ways to do that. I would say that, for example, if someone is dealing with a person who is being aggressive and they punch them in the nose, it is not going to de-escalate the situation. It is not going to turn down the temperature. To be perfectly fair, I am not going to be in Ukraine. The member is not going to be in Ukraine. There are women, there are children, and there are civilians who are going to get caught in the middle of this. When this is escalated, those are the people who pay the price. It is not him, not me and not anyone in this chamber. We have an obligation to be responsible. We have an obligation to seek a peaceful resolution.

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Mr. Yvan Baker (Etobicoke Centre, Lib.)

Jan/31/22 8:11:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am proud to rise as a part of this emergency take-note debate on Ukraine and the buildup of Russian forces along its borders. I will be sharing my time with the member for Parkdale—High Park. A week and a half ago, I was joined by a number of my colleagues in requesting this emergency debate. We thought it was important that members from all parts of this country and from all parties have a chance to discuss and debate Canada's and the international community's response to this crisis that is so important not only to the people of Ukraine but to our allies and to Canada. I would like to thank members from all sides of the House for supporting the motion for this debate. Just over 30 years ago, Ukraine declared its independence. When Ukraine declared its independence, I was watching the news coverage with my grandfather, Yvan. My grandfather was a great Ukrainian patriot. When he lived in Ukraine under the Soviet Union, he risked his life on many occasions to try to defend Ukrainian culture and heritage and to allow for and enable Ukraine's independence. When Ukraine became independent, we were watching it on the news. It was probably the proudest day of his life. I was about 14 years old at the time, and I remember my grandfather saying to me that now that Ukraine was independent we had to keep working to defend its independence. I called him gido. I said to him, “Gido, what are you talking about? Ukraine just declared its independence. The people of Ukraine want it. The international community has recognized it. You are wrong. The battle is over.” I was wrong. In 2014, Russia twice invaded Ukraine: once in Crimea, when it illegally annexed it, and then in eastern Ukraine. That war has raged until this very day. Fourteen thousand Ukrainians have died in that war and one and a half million people have been displaced. In 2014, the world did not do enough. It did not do everything possible to deter an invasion, and it did not do everything possible to support Ukraine. Recently, Russia has amassed 100,000 troops on Ukraine’s borders along with significant military assets. This aggression is a major threat not only to Ukraine, but to Canada and to our allies. An invasion of Ukraine would put Russian soldiers on NATO's eastern border. Just imagine the military, diplomatic and financial resources Canada and other countries would have to invest to defend our NATO allies from a further invasion. It also puts Canada under threat. Russia is our neighbour to the north, and Russia has tried in the past to claim parts of the Canadian Arctic for its own. If we allow an invasion of Ukraine, I can only imagine the message that would send to countries that wished to invade their neighbours or change borders by force. I can only imagine the message it would send to Russia with regards to the Canadian Arctic. That is why Ukraine’s security is Europe’s security, it is the world’s security and it is Canada's security. That is why I believe Canada and its allies must do everything possible to deter an invasion of Ukraine and to support Ukrainians. Over the past eight years, this government has done a tremendous amount to support Ukraine. We heard the Prime Minister and the minister speak to that. Last week, the Prime Minister announced a number of important initiatives: the expansion of Operation Unifier, humanitarian aid, a $120-million loan, etc. He also announced that Minister Anand, our Minister of Defence, would be travelling to Ukraine to understand what Ukraine’s needs were and that all options were on the table. The minister is in Ukraine now. I hope that we do everything possible and everything we can to deter an invasion and support Ukraine. On that day with my grandfather in 1991, I was wrong. In 2014, the world was wrong. We cannot afford to get this wrong again. There is too much at stake. Ukraine's security is Europe's security, it is the world's security and it is Canada's security, so let us take stock of what is needed. Let us take every step we can and every step that is possible. If we do this, we will succeed in deterring an invasion. If we do that, we will have much more to celebrate, not for one year and not for just another 30 years, but for generations to come in Ukraine, in Canada and around the world. Slava Kanadi! Slava Ukraini!

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The Speaker

Jan/31/22 8:16:21 p.m.
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Questions and comments, the hon. member for Calgary Shepard. Before he goes to his question, I just want to remind members that although I realize it is kind of relaxed and we are here, when we are referring to someone we refer to their title and not their name. I know sometimes it slips away on us, so I just want to remind everyone. The hon. member for Calgary Shepard.

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Mr. Tom Kmiec (Calgary Shepard, CPC)

Jan/31/22 8:16:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that was what I would term a strong endorsement of support for Ukraine and for ensuring its territorial integrity. I am of Polish origin. Many eastern Europeans fled to Canada over the last century. They usually came here in different waves. Eastern Europe is still a troubled region, typically because of the Russian Federation and the different names that it has been known by. The member talked about doing everything possible and about all the options out there. I want to remind him that countries such as Turkey, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and Poland are sending arms to Ukraine. Could the member comment on that, and on whether the Government of Canada will be doing that as well?

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Mr. Yvan Baker

Jan/31/22 8:17:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, like I said, Canada and the international community need to do everything possible. As the Prime Minister announced, the minister is in Ukraine to assess Ukraine's needs and what can be best done to deter an invasion. I look forward to hearing what the Minister of National Defence has to say when she returns. Like I said, it is incumbent upon all of us in the international community to do everything we can, because it is not just in Ukraine's interests but in Canada's interests as well.

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Ms. Anita Vandenbeld (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Development, Lib.)

Jan/31/22 8:18:20 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague for articulating so well exactly what is at stake here. We must remain steadfast in supporting Ukraine. I am very pleased to see that our government is standing up to Russian aggression and that we are doing so with every tool available: with our diplomatic tools, as we have seen both our foreign affairs minister and our defence minister in Ukraine in recent days; with over 400 sanctions on individuals or entities; with a sovereign loan of $120 million to Ukraine; and through our presence there and years of military support to Ukraine through Operation Unifier and Operation Reassurance. I would like to ask my colleague why it is so important that we use every single tool at our disposal to show our resolute support for the people of Ukraine.

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Mr. Yvan Baker

Jan/31/22 8:19:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for her question and for her support. I think it is important for a number of reasons. First of all, when we look at what could happen if Russia invades Ukraine, Russia will have again violated the sovereignty of its neighbour Ukraine. This is not the first neighbour's sovereignty that Russia will have violated. It invaded Georgia in 2008. This is a threat to the international world-based order where we respect each other's boundaries, and we respect each other's borders. If this is allowed to continue, other countries, be it Russia or others, will get the message that the international community will tolerate military powers invading their neighbours. We cannot allow that. It is a threat to our European allies, and it is a threat to Canada. As I said before, Russia has in the past tried to lay claims to the Canadian Arctic. I think we have to give some serious thought as Canadians to what would happen and what kinds of threats are posed to us and to our allies in Europe, if Russia is allowed to do this. Vladimir Putin has, in the past, expressed his desire to reconstitute the Soviet Union under Russia with some of the eastern European countries that my Conservative colleague spoke about. Let us imagine the threat to them. This is a threat not only to Ukraine but to Europe and to Canada, and this is why it is so important that we take every measure possible.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP)

Jan/31/22 8:21:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as New Democrats, we support the extension of Operation Unifier, but we remain concerned about reports of extremism within small parts of the Ukraine military and problems in our own military. We feel that our own forces should not train or support any far-right extremist groups. Does the member agree that we should assist the Ukrainian military to become more democratic and accountable, and how are we doing that currently?

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Mr. Yvan Baker

Jan/31/22 8:21:32 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is important that we help the Ukrainian military improve in every way possible. In fact, that is what I think Operation Unifier has been doing. If we look back at all the various elements of training that Operation Unifier has provided, it is not just combat training. It is leadership. It is integration. It is learning how the militaries of countries that are part of NATO operate. That is so critical for Ukraine, because not only does strengthening Ukraine's military allow it to defend itself against these Russian invasions, but it increases the potential, the probability, that Ukraine will be able to enter NATO. That co-operation, that integration among NATO allies, is one of things that makes this defensive alliance possible. I think Operation Unifier is an incredibly important mission, and it plays an incredibly important role in the short term and also in the long term.

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Mr. Arif Virani (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade, Export Promotion, Small Business and Economic Development, Lib.)

Jan/31/22 8:22:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, today on January 31 here in Ottawa, I want to reference something at the start of my comments. I agree fundamentally on the importance of protests and free expression in any democracy, but I also agree we must all denounce hatred and vilification. Things like the waving of swastikas and Confederate flags are jarring at all times, particularly on the fifth anniversary of the Quebec mosque shooting and days after International Holocaust Remembrance Day. Equally jarring is seeing people dance on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The National War Memorial is dedicated to those veterans who paid the ultimate sacrifice to give us the freedom to do things like protest. Those veterans deserve our respect because they died fighting authoritarianism. This brings me to authoritarianism right now, and what we are witnessing in eastern Europe and with Vladimir Putin. Let us make no mistake. The aggressor in this context is Russia. It is Russia who invaded and annexed Crimea illegally. It is Russia who invaded Donbass eight years ago. It is Russia who is now the aggressor amassing 100,000 troops on Ukraine's eastern and northern borders. Our support of Ukraine is steadfast. That is not a partisan issue, thankfully, in this chamber. It is based on our long and steadfast history. In recent years it has meant things like Operation Unifier and Operation Reassurance. It has meant sanctions under the Magnitsky legislation, and it has meant things like the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement. In the last several weeks, literally in the last 14 days, that bond has ramped up. What have we done? What concrete actions have been taken? This has been put into some debate on the part of the official opposition. We have sent HMCS Montréal to the Mediterranean as part of Operation Reassurance. That left Halifax two weeks ago. We have had the Minister of Foreign Affairs in Kyiv. The minister of defence is in Kyiv as I speak. We have sent $50 million in humanitarian assistance, something the NDP has injected into this debate, rightfully, about assisting on the ground. That is being done with Canadian federal dollars. We have provided sovereign loans to the tune of $120 million, something emphasized by the Minister of Foreign Affairs. We have not just renewed Operation Unifier, but we have expanded Operation Unifier. We are providing military equipment. We are also addressing something that is brand new, which did not exist at the time the official opposition was in government, such as cyber-threats. We are addressing cyber-threats and using Canadian know-how to team up with Ukrainian know-how to better assist in that particular aspect of the fight. We have launched a renegotiation of the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement, and I was happy to participate in that launch with the Minister of International Trade. Why does this matter? It matters because, as we have heard from my colleague from Etobicoke Centre, the security of Ukraine is the security of Europe, which is the security of the world and, ergo, Canada's security. It matters to Canadians. We have heard the member opposite for Calgary Shepard talking about his own Polish background. I represent, for example, Polish Canadians and Ukrainian Canadians. For any person in this country who is from eastern Europe, or who has ancestry from eastern Europe, they know what Russian aggression looked like under the Soviet Union and they are seeing it again now. It is causing them considerable anxiety, anxiety to which we must respond as a nation-state. What is at stake? It is the sovereign ability of any nation to determine, on its own, its security arrangements and to make independent decisions about how to protect its citizens. To those who say Canada is a small player and the actions it takes will be inconsequential, I say they are dead wrong. They are dead wrong because Canada can lead and has led. How have we led? When we deliver $120 million in sovereign loans, the EU then follows with additional money in sovereign loans, because they see Canada leading by example. We have heard Jens Stoltenberg, the secretary general of NATO, reference the leadership of Canada. That is what we need more of. That is why I called, together with the member for Etobicoke Centre and six of my colleagues, for this debate this evening. What I pledge in this chamber right now, on behalf of my constituents and on behalf of the Canadian people, is that we need to continue to do more. What more can be done? Two things can be done. We can address economic sanctions as a package, and we can address economic sanctions now. We need to demonstrate to a person like Putin that the cost of potentially going to war is far more expensive than the cost of peace. Lastly, we must address Ukraine's defence where it is needed. Where we can provide assistance in defending Ukraine, we must do so, including things such as providing electronic jamming equipment, which I understand the Ukrainian minister of defence has recently put in a request for. Those are the types of things I will advocate for in this chamber, I will advocate for with my government and I will advocate for on behalf of the Ukrainian Canadians whom I represent.

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Mr. Tom Kmiec (Calgary Shepard, CPC)

Jan/31/22 8:27:29 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I want to thank the member for what I also think is a speech in strong support of the right of Ukraine to its self-determination and its borders. I mentioned there is a series of countries that have offered and already transferred weapons and arms to Ukraine in an effort to try to bolster its military forces to act as a deterrent to the Russian Federation potentially invading different parts of Ukraine and prolonging the war it has been fighting with them for several years. Will the member perhaps explain the Government of Canada's delays in sending arms from Canada to Ukraine in support of our allies to ensure they can defend themselves against Russian aggression?

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Mr. Arif Virani

Jan/31/22 8:28:23 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I take issue with a certain characterization he made that the Government of Canada has been delaying. The fact that I was able to list about five different actions we have taken in a 14-day span is the antithesis of delay. We have taken direct action. Most notably, the issue of providing assistance to defend Ukraine is a live one. It is one where all options are on the table. That is my first point. My second point is that we have to consider what Canada has been able to do thus far. Since Operation Unifier was launched, we have provided training to no less than 33,000 Ukrainian soldiers. That is an unbelievable number. It is a significant impact for a middle power in terms of providing security and assistance in the sovereignty and defence of Ukraine. I have been there myself to observe those troops during the celebration for independence on the Maidan in 2018. I have seen what Canadians are doing. I have seen what Ukrainian Canadian soldiers are doing on the ground. It is needed, it is wanted and it is respected. That is more of the type of contribution we need to see.

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Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)

Jan/31/22 8:29:31 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, we heard members from the governing party mention several times that the crucial thing, the thing that matters most in this case, is diplomacy and deterrence. Many have criticized the government's diplomatic efforts, saying that it was focusing a bit too much on soft power in circumstances that did not call for it. The actions taken may also be causing some confusion. The Ukrainians are complaining that we are not responding to their request for weapons and that we are responding too late, while Russia is accusing Canada of being too alarmist by recalling its diplomatic corps. I have a simple question. Can my colleague suggest what could have been done better in terms of diplomacy, since that is what is at the heart of this issue for the government?

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Mr. Arif Virani

Jan/31/22 8:30:26 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, that is a good question. To be honest, from a diplomatic point of view, western allies need a more unified approach. For one thing, we have not talked about the Nord Stream 2 pipeline during this evening's debate. Germany is reliant upon Nord Stream 2 as a source of energy. This is causing some division among western nations. We know the European Parliament, areas of Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are against Nord Stream 2. If that kind of project goes ahead, it poses some instability within the western alliance. It is that kind of diplomacy we need to unify the western alliance so that we can approach projects like Nord Stream 2 in a unified manner and approach combatting Russian aggression in a unified manner.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP)

Jan/31/22 8:31:15 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I have quite a strong community in London from the diaspora, the Ukrainian folks there. Daria, the president of the London chapter of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, brought her concerns directly to me. Considering the member has such a diverse community, I would like to hear some of the concerns he is hearing directly from his community members as to what is ultimately going on and the government's response to it.

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