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Mr. Yvan Baker (Etobicoke Centre, Lib.)

Jan/31/22 9:31:10 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it was wonderful to hear, particularly in the first part of the member's remarks, a bit about her community of Lakeland and the Ukrainian heritage that so many people in Lakeland value and share, how they celebrate that, and how that inspires their concern for what is happening right now in Ukraine. Could the member speak a bit about sanctions? She mentioned briefly in her remarks the need for sanctions. Over the course of the last few years, the government has sanctioned about 440 individuals and entities, mostly Russian but some Ukrainian as well, who were involved in threatening Ukraine's sovereignty and violating human rights. I wonder if the member could speak to what additional sanctions she would like to see and if there are any particular groups or entities she would like sanctioned.

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Mrs. Shannon Stubbs

Jan/31/22 9:32:14 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would say that it is not only about sanctions. The response of the Canadian government must be multipronged. Sanctions are only one among the vast array of tools that Canada has to show real solidarity to defend the sovereignty and the territorial integrity of Ukraine. The request is very clear, as the top priority, for lethal weapons. At least nine other countries in the world, including the U.S. and the U.K., have ensured that the military equipment the Ukrainian people require to defend themselves is there. Canada should be at the front of the pack.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Jan/31/22 9:33:07 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I know that my colleague, the member for Lakeland, has as many Ukrainians in her constituency as I do in mine. It was lovely to hear that commitment to the Ukrainian diaspora in her community. The member will not be surprised when I talk about the need for de-escalation and the need for a peaceful resolution on this conflict. She spoke about the tools that we have in our tool box and all of the things that we could be doing. From her perspective as a member of the Conservative Party, what are those things that Canada should be doing to de-escalate? Aside from providing weapons, aside from escalating with lethal-force weapons, what are those things that she sees that the government should be doing to de-escalate and to turn down the temperature on the conflict happening in Ukraine?

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Mrs. Shannon Stubbs

Jan/31/22 9:34:00 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I outlined a number of those specific measures that Canada could take and that Conservatives have consistently recommended since last April, which is a lot of time that has been expended with very limited action, while Ukrainians are vulnerable to expanding Russian military forces on the border. Given that the member commented about my constituents, why do I not just tell her a few recommendations that Natalia from Vegreville sent me? These are things that Conservatives support too. She recommended accelerating a NATO membership action plan for Ukraine; increasing sanctions on Russia to deter further aggression; ensuring that the Nord Stream 2 pipeline never becomes operational; increasing the provision of military equipment and defensive weapons to Ukraine; and extending and expanding Operation Unifier, Canada's military training mission in Ukraine, which was of course launched by the former Conservative government. As the member for Wellington—Halton Hills said, diplomacy is critical and must be ongoing, but to push back on the danger and the threats to free people and free countries everywhere against despots it must be founded by real, potential lethal action.

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Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)

Jan/31/22 9:35:20 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, all evening in this debate, the Conservatives have been going on and on about Ukraine's requests for weapons. I would like my colleague to comment on whether she believes that what Canada can bring to the table in terms of weapons would have much of an impact on the ground. In that context, does she agree with me that we should use diplomacy instead of weapons? Does she recognize that the diplomatic route is really more important than weapons and the latter must come second?

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Mrs. Shannon Stubbs

Jan/31/22 9:36:05 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, of course diplomacy is necessary and ought to be ongoing, but let us talk about the real cost to the Ukrainian people of only talking. Natalia also pointed out that since 2014 the illegal invasion and occupation by Russia has cost Ukraine over 13,000 dead, over 30,000 wounded and 1.5 million internally displaced people. This is why we should join our free and democratic allies who have already sent the weapons to Ukraine that the country needs to defend itself. This is why we should be at the front of the pack. Those are the real costs that happened while we put up hashtags on pieces of paper and sit around here debating diplomacy.

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Mr. James Maloney (Etobicoke—Lakeshore, Lib.)

Jan/31/22 9:36:58 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would like to thank all members of the House tonight, as this debate would not be taking place if it were not for the unanimous agreement of all members in this chamber. I believe the reason we have that unanimous consent is that we stand united in purpose to stand with Ukraine. We need to remember that throughout this debate. I rise today in support of Ukraine and of the initiatives of our government to support Ukraine in this difficult time. The links between our two countries are strong, and Canada has been and will be steadfast in standing in solidarity with Ukraine, especially in the face of unwarranted Russian aggression. For me, the ties are strong. Not only do I have a large Ukrainian community in my constituency, but there are also many Ukrainian cultural and religious organizations, as well as the Ukrainian consulate. Canadians of Ukrainian descent strengthen our social and cultural fabric in Etobicoke, in Toronto and in the country. The community is strong and the ties that bind our two countries are many. They are my neighbours; they are my teammates; they are my classmates; they are my friends. As has been said many times before, when Ukraine became an independent state in 1991, Canada was the first western country to recognize it as such. Canada and Ukraine have enjoyed an even stronger relationship since. The 1994 joint declaration on special partnership recognizes Canada's support for the development of Ukraine and the importance of that bilateral co-operation. Canada is committed to supporting Ukraine as it takes necessary steps to secure itself as a stable, democratic and prosperous country. We have been there to develop and strengthen democratic institutions in Ukraine, including election monitoring. I was there myself in 2019 as part of the delegation. I felt those bonds. Since 2014, Canada has provided Ukraine with more than $890 million in multi-faceted assistance to support Ukraine's security, prosperity and reform objectives. Since 2015, Canada has been providing military training to Ukraine under Operation Unifier. The operation's focus is to assist with security force training to help them improve and build their capability and capacity. Over 32,000 of its security forces will help ensure Ukraine remains sovereign, secure and stable. Last week, our government announced $340 million for the extension and expansion of Operation Unifier for three more years, as well as immediately deploying 60 personnel to join approximately 200 Canadian Armed Forces members on the ground, with the ability to surge to 400. Military support is just one part of Canada’s overall strategy. There are also economic supports through trade and investment. In 2020, the value of Canada’s merchandise exports to Ukraine totalled $161 million and the value of merchandise imports from Ukraine amounted to $144 million. Last week, on January 27, Canada and Ukraine announced the launch of negotiations for the modernization of the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement. Since 2014, Canada has been one of Ukraine’s leading bilateral development assistance partners, having committed more than $245 million to development assistance, including the provisions of emergency basic health services, safe drinking water, food assistance, protection support, shelter and essential relief items. This needs to be a non-partisan debate. As I said at the beginning, we are united in purpose. The Prime Minister is fully engaged. The Deputy Prime Minister is fully engaged. Our Minister of Foreign Affairs was in Ukraine last week, came back and granted the request of the President of Ukraine. The Minister of Defence is there as we speak. I expect, upon her return, we will see further action from Canada. I hope we can maintain this united force and non-partisan approach.

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Mr. Marc Dalton (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, CPC)

Jan/31/22 9:41:51 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I heard Liberal members discuss about all options being on the table, but it seems to me that one of the options is providing military aid, lethal support, and we have been bringing this up over and over again. It was a previous member of Parliament with the Liberal Party, former lieutenant-general Andrew Leslie, who said recently that the Liberal government does not take the military seriously. This impacts what we can do and provide for Ukrainians and is having a direct effect. That is my concern. What we are able to do for Ukraine is just an outflow, other than a few troops coming in and doing a few different things. What it needs help with is military. I wonder if the member for Etobicoke—Lakeshore could speak about the deterioration of the military and the armaments we have in order to provide to Ukraine.

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Mr. James Maloney

Jan/31/22 9:43:07 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, first of all, I am going to disagree with his characterization of the situation. There has been no diminished contribution. Canada has been there with Ukraine since the beginning. This goes back to 2014 with the invasion of Crimea. We have been talking about support of military lethal weapons. Canada did not do it then. The opposition is asking us to do it now. Military support comes in many different fashions. We need only look at Operation Unifier. Over 30,000 members of the Ukrainian military are better trained because of Canada's contribution, so to say that Canada has not helped with military contribution is absolutely false.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Jan/31/22 9:44:01 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, one of the things I asked earlier, and I would like to extend the question to the member as well, is around the assurance by the Government of Canada that it will be implementing some of those key lessons in our feminist foreign policy. One of those is that we do what we can to advocate to ensure women are at all tables, that women are part of all the discussions that lead to de-escalation, because we know that when women are at the table, different decisions are made. I just want to be very, very clear. How is the government ensuring women are there, that they are part of the solution and part of the de-escalation efforts happening in Ukraine?

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Mr. James Maloney

Jan/31/22 9:44:47 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, we heard the Prime Minister earlier this evening address that very issue. Canada is very proud to support the initiative to make sure women form part of the training exercise. If we look at Operation Unifier, women formed part of that training. International development programs that Canada has supported and has been part of have put great emphasis on that very issue. It is quite clear where Canada stands.

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Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)

Jan/31/22 9:45:23 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the importance of diplomacy in resolving the conflict has come up a lot in tonight's debate. Some people put it second, some put it first, but everyone has talked about it. This crisis may have exposed certain shortcomings in Canada's ability to engage in credible diplomacy. Several ambassadors have complained in the press about the very rapid turnover in certain embassies and the loss of institutional knowledge. Is tonight's debate not the right time to say that we need to reinvest in diplomacy and set a clearer, more assertive foreign policy?

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Mr. James Maloney

Jan/31/22 9:46:13 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, with all due respect, to suggest there has been a shortfall by Canada on the diplomacy front is simply wrong. Our foreign affairs minister was in Ukraine last week. Our defence minister left Ukraine hours ago. She is going to Brussels as we speak to engage in further diplomatic discussions. That is exactly the approach Canada is trying to take. To answer the question as to what is a priority, everything is a priority to make sure that further invasion of Ukraine does not take place.

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Ms. Julie Dzerowicz (Davenport, Lib.)

Jan/31/22 9:47:00 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I want to wish you and all colleagues in the House a very happy New Year. I know it is the end of January, but this is my first chance to stand in the House virtually to speak and send those wishes. I am very grateful for the opportunity to speak during this take-note debate on Ukraine and the buildup of Russian troops along the Ukrainian border. It is important for us to have this conversation and dialogue. We live in troubling and unpredictable times. In addition to the global pandemic that the world is grappling with, what is happening at the Ukrainian border, with the accumulation and buildup of over 100,000 troops by Russia, is troubling to say the least. As a Ukrainian-Canadian, I have been following this development since its start last fall. My father's family is Ukrainian. They were and are very proud of their culture and heritage. They came to Canada as a broken family after World War II, reluctantly leaving their homeland, having no choice. They lost everything in the war. With the USSR taking over Ukraine, there was no hope for a future. They were devastated. From a displaced persons camp and on one of the last boats to leave for North America, they came to Canada seeking peace and safety. The scars from the war and from that time remain with my family, and we are still healing from them. That is why I am so very proud of our federal government for its leadership and for stepping up to help Ukraine counter unprovoked Russian aggression. I support Canada's strong push for peace and for a diplomatic resolution while supporting Ukraine economically and helping Ukraine to defend itself. For me, the right choice is to push hard and to explore any and every opportunity for a diplomatic resolution. Providing arms should be our last option, not our first one. I stand with Canada and with our government to defend the sovereignty, territoriality and independence of Ukraine. I fully support Canada's push for peace and for a diplomatic resolution while preparing, if we have to, to quickly step up our contribution should Russia choose armed conflict and invade Ukrainian territory. As I am currently serving as the vice-president of the Canadian NATO Parliamentary Association, I am also very proud of NATO's leadership under the direction of Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. NATO has been very clear that they are encouraging and are prepared to engage in political dialogue with Russia, while also being ready to respond if Russia chooses an armed conflict. Now let us look at how Canada is stepping up to support Ukraine. There are many ways. When our Minister of Foreign Affairs went to Ukraine over a week ago, Ukrainian President Zelensky's number one ask was for economic loans to help stabilize Ukraine's economy. Within three days, our government stepped up with a $120-million loan. The second thing Ukrainian President Zelensky asked for was help to defend Ukraine, so we urgently announced an expansion of the existing much-valued Operation Unifier at the cost of $340 million. This extension and expansion of Canada's military presence in support of Ukraine will ensure that members of the Canadian Armed Forces will continue to provide enhanced military training and mentorship to Ukraine's security forces through to the end of March 2025. Additionally, Canada is providing non-lethal aid and working with the Communications Security Establishment to enhance cyber-operations. This increased support will help Ukraine strengthen its security and ability to defend itself against a range of threats. On top of that, we are providing $50 million in development and humanitarian aid to Ukraine. In less than one week, there has been over $500 million in support for Ukraine. Our Minister of Foreign Affairs, who has been in constant contact with our many NATO allies, has indicated that we are ready to step up even more, together with our allies, with stronger economic sanctions against Russia, should there be military incursion into Ukraine. Any action by Russia in this direction will have serious consequences. Our Minister of National Defence has said the same thing. I want to say to both ministers how grateful I am for their extraordinary leadership during these unpredictable and troubling times. In closing, while we live in troubling and unpredictable times, I have confidence that working together with NATO and our other allies, and in keeping the channels of communication open with Russia, it is not too late to find a diplomatic and peaceful way out of the current situation. [Member spoke in Ukrainian]

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Hon. Michael Chong (Wellington—Halton Hills, CPC)

Jan/31/22 9:52:03 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I just have a comment for the member, whom I have known for a number of years now. Russia's military is not the only hard power tool that it has to intimidate Europe and Ukraine. It can also use energy as a weapon. It supplies 40% of Europe's natural gas, and if it cuts off natural gas supplies to Europe, people will freeze, industries will shut down and European GDP will plummet. The Biden administration has been talking to countries around the world about increasing natural gas supplies to Europe in the event that the Russians cut off gas to Europe, except for Canada. Canada is not mentioned in any of the reports coming back about supplying natural gas in the event that this happens, even though we are the fifth-largest natural gas producer in the world. When will the government see that energy is not only vital to our economy, but vital to our national security and to those of Europe and Ukraine?

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Ms. Julie Dzerowicz

Jan/31/22 9:53:11 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I want to thank the hon. member for his excellent comment and question. I do believe that we recognize the importance of energy. If the member is suggesting that we should be looking at energy as one of the ways that we might actually want to support Ukraine in the future, I think the Prime Minister, all of the ministers who have spoken today and many of my colleagues who have spoken today have indicated that every option is on the table. Anything that we can do to continue to support Ukraine, to continue to de-escalate, will be on the table and will be part of the discussions moving forward.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Jan/31/22 9:53:54 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my colleague for her intervention this evening. In the previous intervention, there was some discussion about Canada and its efforts with regard to diplomacy and our diplomatic corps. I am not referring to ministers going for visits to Ukraine. I am referring to our diminished diplomatic corps. Under the Conservatives, we had massive cuts to our diplomatic corps, especially when Global Affairs became something where they took away trade and development and put it all into one place. We lost a lot of our diplomacy, our ability to do diplomacy and our ability to have that role in the world, and we do not see that being built back up. We have not seen our international development and our ODA being built up. We also have not seen our peacekeeping efforts being built up. What I want to know from the the government is this: Will it commit to doing these things, building back our peacekeeping, building back our diplomatic corps and building back our international development, so that Canada can be back and we can be better suited for future conflicts like the one we are seeing right now in Ukraine?

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Ms. Julie Dzerowicz

Jan/31/22 9:55:15 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, since we were first elected in late 2015, our government has very much put an emphasis on diplomacy and on strengthening diplomacy. Throughout this whole situation with the buildup of Russian aggression at the Ukrainian borders, we have had excellent diplomatic efforts from our Prime Minister, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of National Defence and from a number of my colleagues. That is an area that we will continue to strengthen. One of the other things we announced is that Canada is creating a team out of Global Affairs Canada to support the further coordination of federal efforts in support of peace and security in Ukraine. We are trying to do everything we can to continue to expand our diplomatic efforts and to continue to open the lines of communication with our allies, with NATO and with anyone who wants to help find a diplomatic and peaceful solution out of the current situation we find ourselves in right now.

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Mr. Terry Duguid (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, Lib.)

Jan/31/22 9:56:34 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I thank the member for her very passionate and informed speech. The Minister of Tourism referred earlier to a town hall of 500 Ukrainian Canadians hosted by the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs. We heard many of things that we are hearing tonight, of course. We heard from the ministers a theme very similar to the member's tonight, which is of Canada being flexible and resilient in its response and open to new options as the situation evolves. I think we have heard that message from our Minister of National Defence today. Is that something that the member shares, that we should be open to new options?

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Ms. Julie Dzerowicz

Jan/31/22 9:57:23 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I absolutely agree with the hon. member. I believe we are absolutely open to all questions we are looking for. As I said, I am an eternal optimist. I absolutely believe there is still a way for us to find a peaceful and diplomatic solution, and I think we have had the right approach here in Canada. I am proud of our leadership, and I am hopeful that we will find a solution moving forward.

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