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Feb/8/22 8:03:15 p.m.
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I apologize, but we have to go to questions and comments. The hon. member for Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound.

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Mr. Alex Ruff (Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, CPC)

Feb/8/22 8:03:22 p.m.
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Madam Chair, a report that was produced in my riding, the community drug and alcohol strategy for one of my counties, stated that mental health and addiction services are spread across many different ministries and funding bodies, both provincially and federally, and are significantly underfunded, relative to the federal spending on physical health. Individuals and families seeking help to address mental health, substance abuse and other needs such as housing are required to navigate a complicated system of supports and reconcile conflicting policies, information, attitudes and options. Knowing the role for the minister, and as well with respect to indigenous services and having two reserves in my riding, what steps has the federal Liberal government taken to consolidate responsibility in making access support easier for all vulnerable Canadians?

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

Feb/8/22 8:04:21 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the federal government has an important role to play in supporting provinces and territories to deliver on their responsibilities for health care, including mental health and substance use care. Beyond that, we also have an important responsibility to provide support for first nations and indigenous communities and ensure they have the right supports as they choose and that those supports are appropriately funded, and designed and led by indigenous people. We will continue to work with all partners to make sure we can increase capacity for communities to support people who use substances and their families who love them.

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Mr. Don Davies (Vancouver Kingsway, NDP)

Feb/8/22 8:05:09 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the war on drugs is now universally regarded as an utter failure. It has wasted billions of dollars and hurt millions of people. We now know that criminalizing drug use and addiction not only does not work, it adds to the harm and actually makes things worse. Leaving the toxic supply of drugs to street level criminals is literally killing thousands of Canadians every year and, in fact, more every year since the Liberals have been in power since 2015. Given these facts, and the fact that the major source of criminalization is federal law, why would this member's government not respect the evidence and act now to decriminalize drug use, create a regulated, low-barrier safe supply and make prevention, education and universal access to treatment the policy of her government?

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

Feb/8/22 8:06:02 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I think the member opposite knows that is exactly the journey we have been on. We have been working with provinces and territories on making sure people can access safer supply. In fact, just a few months ago, prior to being the Minister of Indigenous Services, I was so pleased to announce funding for four safer supply projects in British Columbia. Of course, this relies on those strong partnerships with provinces, territories and, indeed, the entire health care sector. We need to support providers so that they feel comfortable and safe to prescribe safer supplies for people who use substances. The federal government has been doing that in partnership with provinces and territories. Finally, we must note that, in fact, it is not one approach that is going to help save lives and stop this tragedy. It is going to be multiple approaches, as appropriate and as determined by people in communities.

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Ms. Marie-Hélène Gaudreau (Laurentides—Labelle, BQ)

Feb/8/22 8:07:01 p.m.
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Madam Chair, for the last hour and a half we have been discussing proposals that seem to reflect all of us a bit. I have a question for the minister. We are talking about a diversion process for simple possession with the support of frontline health services. This support would change everything and allow for training or detox treatment, an appropriate option in exchange for dropping charges. I would like to hear her thoughts, because that is exactly what is happening right now in Montreal and Nunavik.

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

Feb/8/22 8:08:06 p.m.
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Madam Chair, there is a lot of work happening at various levels of government to consider decriminalization. As I said earlier in response to other colleagues, I believe that there is no one perfect approach. It will be multiple things that will help people who use substances and that will help their families. The first thing we have to do, and I fully agree with my colleagues in this regard, is to treat people who use substances with respect and compassion. There is no path forward if we do not get that right.

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Mr. Marcus Powlowski (Thunder Bay—Rainy River, Lib.)

Feb/8/22 8:08:48 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I am happy to speak to this issue, an issue that I have been involved with one way or another for about 30 years or more. As a long-time emergency room doctor, many of those years in Thunder Bay but other places as well, I have seen a lot of overdoses. ICU doctors who work in Thunder Bay and also work in a lot of other places tell me that Thunder Bay is second only to Vancouver in terms of the number of people going to the ICU as a result of overdoses. A few years ago in the Thunder Bay emergency room, we started to notice something different with overdoses. I remember someone coming in unconscious and because of his pinpoint pupils and his slow breathing, I figured he was a narcotics overdose, so I gave him Narcan or Naloxone and sure enough he woke up. After he woke up he asked what happened to him. I said he overdosed on narcotics and he said that he did not because he was smoking crack. Drug dealers have started putting fentanyl and at times carfentanyl, which is the veterinary drug equivalent, which is far stronger, into all kinds of other drugs. People are getting hooked on narcotics and overdosing, not even knowing that it is narcotics they are doing. When narcotic overdoses make it to the emergency room, they usually are okay, but a lot of people unfortunately do not make it to the emergency room. They are either pronounced dead in their house or they arrive VSA, vital signs absent. We try to resuscitate them and unfortunately we cannot. Besides knowing about this problem from my position as an emergency room doctor, I am also familiar with it from my personal experiences. I know a lot of people who have family members and friends who passed away because of overdoses, kids who are growing up without a parent because of an overdose, or parents who lost a child because of an overdose. I also know about this problem because, going door to door in two successive campaigns, a number of people told me about people they lost, usually their children. I know as a parent there is nothing worse than losing a child. Although I would say that certainly it is probably equally as bad for a child to lose a parent. I also know the extent to which drug addiction, mental health, homelessness and crime are intertwined. Last year on the INAN committee on which I sat, we had several women tell us of the problem that indigenous women from farther north communities have when they come to Thunder Bay and they meet some guy with flashy clothes and a flashy car who invites them to a party to try drugs. They try drugs and they get addicted to drugs, and then they are asked to go into prostitution to pay for the price of those drugs. Although our government has done a lot to address addictions, mental health and the opioid crisis, I do not think we have been as successful as we would like to be. Unfortunately, I do not know of any jurisdiction in the world that has been really successful in addressing this problem. As a doctor, we spend a lot of years treating people with overdoses and hopefully maybe saving a few of them. I know the fix I provided in the emergency room was a temporary fix. People would often overdose again, so what is the answer? As a long-time doctor, I think one of the most important things to say as a doctor when we do not know is “I don't know”. I certainly say I do not know what the answer is to the opioid problem, but I do know that we need to do better. I also know that there are many people in Thunder Bay and northwestern Ontario working tirelessly to find solutions on a case-by-case basis, and I really commend them for all their hard work. I would also like to make special mention of one group in my riding, a group who will not take no for an answer and have made it their mission to make a difference and that is Team DEK. DEK stands for Dayna Elizabeth Karle, who died due to an accidental overdose this past September. Her mother, Carolyn, and a bunch of like-minded determined women established Team DEK with the goal of establishing a long-term addiction treatment program for women in Thunder Bay, both indigenous and non-indigenous. This project has a lot of support both in Thunder Bay and northwestern Ontario. It is really great to see on the issue of the opioid crisis all parties feeling passionately about this. Although we may have different views as to what the best answer to this problem is, hopefully we can leave partisan politics aside and not let it prevent us from considering all options because the only thing that really matters is preventing more needless deaths.

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Mr. Alex Ruff (Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, CPC)

Feb/8/22 8:13:55 p.m.
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Madam Chair, first, I give my thanks for all the member's work on the Afghan file over the last year and a bit. I know he has been a big advocate. I want to talk about solutions and get his take from another rural riding. In my riding of Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound a harm reduction outreach pilot project called SOS, supportive outreach services, is under way in Owen Sound and Hanover. The project is a collaboration among various community partners and is operated through in-kind contributions from partner agencies. Grey County paramedic services has been instrumental in moving this forward, and the project provides wraparound health and social services to individuals who experience barriers to accessing traditional health services. This project just began in October and ends this April, and early outcomes show that it is quite successful in connecting the vulnerable community members to those necessary resources. In the member's opinion, for programs like this that are coming up with innovative solutions for particularly rural Canada, should the federal government be providing more support to them and more investment, and leveraging the lessons learned form these types of projects?

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Mr. Marcus Powlowski

Feb/8/22 8:15:06 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I certainly agree that we ought to be doing more for this. I have to point out that I think our government has done quite a bit in terms of addressing the opioid problem. Just since the pandemic, there has been $4.5 billion in top-ups to the transfers to the provinces; $100 million for mental health interventions for the people most severely affected by the pandemic; $500 million toward people suffering mental health problems, homelessness and substance abuse; and $66 million was announced in a recent budget for 30 new substance use and addiction programs. However, I think the real difference is made at the grassroots level, and it is all those people who are working at that level, tirelessly, to try to find a solution where often solutions are not easy to find, who really contribute the most. It is not just all about—

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The Assistant Deputy Chair

Feb/8/22 8:16:03 p.m.
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Questions and comments, the hon. member for Edmonton Griesbach.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach, NDP)

Feb/8/22 8:16:14 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-216

Madam Chair, I want to thank my hon. colleague for making mention of two really important parts, and I am hoping he can comment on them. First, he was not sure about some jurisdictions that had done this before. Portugal, in 2000, was one of the jurisdictions that did this, and we have seen some record results in making things safer for them. We know those kinds of results could exist here in Canada. In regard to the second portion, making sure we have a non-partisan review of this issue and a non-partisan solution, I think that is a really good and encouraging statement to make. My colleague from Courtenay—Alberni tabled Bill C-216. Would the member consider voting in favour of this important bill?

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Mr. Marcus Powlowski

Feb/8/22 8:16:51 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-216

Madam Chair, I would like to thank the member for Edmonton Griesbach for his reference to Portugal, where I believe they have decriminalized drug use. Certainly, from what I know, as a result of that decriminalization there has been some improvement in the problem in Portugal, so I think it is certainly an interesting case study. I cannot say I know enough about decriminalization to give any definitive answer about it, but I do think it is something we ought to be seriously considering. As for Bill C-216, I admit I have not read it, but I look forward to reading it.

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Ms. Marie-Hélène Gaudreau (Laurentides—Labelle, BQ)

Feb/8/22 8:17:46 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I have a simple question for my colleague, who has expertise in the health field. Earlier, I spoke about interventions to prevent overdoses. One response to overdoses was to make naloxone universally and freely available. In Quebec for example, firefighters, paramedics and police officers use it to save lives. I would like to hear my colleague's views on this universal, free access to naloxone.

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Mr. Marcus Powlowski

Feb/8/22 8:18:24 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will try to reply in French. I agree, the solution to overdoses of narcotics is indeed naloxone. I think that all first responders should be able to administer naloxone. It really is the right answer to overdose problems.

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The Assistant Deputy Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Feb/8/22 8:19:03 p.m.
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Resuming debate. The hon. member for Foothills.

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Mr. John Barlow (Foothills, CPC)

Feb/8/22 8:19:08 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will be splitting my time with the member for Kelowna—Lake Country. It is unfortunate that I have to get up once again to speak about the opioid crisis in Canada. Unfortunately, it seems we are doing this on a fairly regular basis. My colleagues will know that I am not necessarily one to stand up here and talk about statistics and that I try and focus on real stories and anecdotes, but the stats, especially for the province of Alberta, show that opioid deaths have increased substantially over the last couple of years, and suicides are a part of that. Just to put that in perspective, across Canada there were 1,700 apparent opioid toxicity deaths between July and September of 2020. That is the highest quarterly number since we started measuring these stats in 2016. That is a 120% increase from year to year over that same time frame the previous year. There were more than 3,300 apparent opioid toxicity deaths, representing a 74% increase just between the six months of October 2019 and March 2020. That is 1,900 deaths. These are significant numbers. Yes, they are numbers but they are also friends, relatives, sons, daughters, mother and fathers whom we have lost. I know I am not the only one in the House, many of my colleagues and friends have also lost loved ones, friends and people who are close to them due to an opioid overdose or suicide. We knew this was a crisis going into the pandemic, but the pandemic has certainly exacerbated the mental health crisis we are facing in Canada, and as a result, the opioid crisis that comes along with that. Over the past year, I had the honour of chairing a Conservative working group where we focused on the opioid crisis and mental health. We talked to stakeholders across Canada and around the world. We asked them what their insight and advice was to address this, what we were missing and what tools we were overlooking in our tool box. There are a couple of things I want to share in my speech that I learned from those stakeholders, from doctors, nurses, counsellors and family members who had lost loved ones, as well as from those who have been through opioid addiction and recovery. What I learned is that there is no silver bullet. There is not one program that, as a federal government in partnership with our provinces and territories, we could implement tomorrow that we know would resolve the issue, this crisis. It is not a one-size-fits-all. We need a suite of programs and initiatives to address this crisis, but I think the most important thing is that we need to do it now. Certainly, we heard some platitudes from the government. I do not want to make this overly partisan, but we heard from many levels of government that they understand it is a crisis, but very few are actually doing something about it. We have had emergency debates on it in the House in the past and I have not seen a lot of changes. That is concerning. We cannot carry on like this. The one thing we have heard is that the programs have been underfunded and there has not been a true priority put on addressing the opioid crisis. When I say “underfunded”, I do not think, from what we have heard from stakeholders, there is a lack of funds going to some of these programs and initiatives that are out there. The problem is underfunding with respect to setting priorities. One of the things we heard from just about every single stakeholder we spoke with during the last year and a bit, going through this discussion, was that there are no metrics to measure which programs are successful and which are not. We could take a shotgun approach and throw money at just about every program that is out there, but unless we have a way to measure what is working and what is not, we are wasting our time and money. That is what we heard from so many of these groups. It is not that we are lacking resources, but there are so many programs out there, Some of them are working and some of them are working exceptionally well, but some of them are not. We want to ensure that those that are getting the funds are doing a good job. It also empowers them to make sure they are using taxpayer dollars to the very best benefit. Another example we heard from many of the stakeholders is the need for a 988 national suicide hotline. This would be a very easy solution that the Liberal government could implement immediately and the House could support unanimously. How can Canadians trust the Liberal government to take this seriously if it cannot even implement a simple 988 suicide hotline?

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Mr. Nathaniel Erskine-Smith (Beaches—East York, Lib.)

Feb/8/22 8:24:35 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the member and I have engaged on this subject in the past here in the House. It feels a bit like déjà vu, and many more people have died since. Recently, in June, the expert task force on substance use recommended bold action on three fronts. I do not think this is sufficient, and I think we need to expand treatment options. We also know that thousands of Canadians are dying because of a poisoned drug supply. As an interim measure to save lives today, would the member support a safer drug supply? This is not a permanent fix for down the road. We have to figure out a long-term solution, but what about the short term, as a matter of saving lives today?

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Mr. John Barlow

Feb/8/22 8:25:10 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I appreciate that we have had discussions on this, but one thing is missing. I also appreciate what the member is trying to say. Some colleagues have brought up the Portugal model, for example, but the thing they forget to mention about Portugal, where drugs were decriminalized, is that it has invested substantially in treatment and recovery. The number of beds it has for treatment and recovery far outweigh what we have here in Canada. If we want to talk about decriminalization and safe supply, the first thing we have to talk about, which must be in place first, is a strategy and regime around treatment and recovery, and ensuring we have the resources in place for those who are going to need it.

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Ms. Lisa Marie Barron (Nanaimo—Ladysmith, NDP)

Feb/8/22 8:25:57 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I listened to the member's speech, and I agree that real stories are important and that we should always bring it back to the people. What we know is that in the last six years, 25,000 lives have been lost, unfortunately. However, for years, the Conservatives have been trying to discredit clear and overwhelming evidence that supervised injection sites save lives. We want to talk about something we can do, and something tangible we can do is increase the safe supply and increase harm-reduction supports. Instead, we are seeing increased marginalization of the most vulnerable and the criminalization of people struggling with substance use. I wonder if the member could clarify something. Does he agree that we need to increase harm-reduction supports in order to save lives?

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