SoVote

Apr/28/22 10:33:33 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am getting heckled by the member for Winnipeg North. Again, as the chief spokesperson for lack of accountability, for cover-ups and for the unethical behaviour of this government, we can always point to the member for Winnipeg North to stand up and be there shouting the loudest.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Apr/28/22 10:33:33 a.m.
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Would you say that outside?

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Mr. Gord Johns (Courtenay—Alberni, NDP)

Apr/28/22 10:33:42 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there are so many things happening right now in this country. There is an overdose crisis, and a toxic drug-supply crisis that is killing people. There is a housing crisis. There are so many problems and issues that have to be resolved, such as veterans who are still waiting for their disability payments because of the backlog that started with the Conservatives. The Conservatives are delaying having really important conversations, and they have not brought forward any solutions around the issues that I have talked about, whether it is climate change, whether it is the important need to fast-track reconciliation or the failure of the government to deliver on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and the calls to justice. My question to the member is this. Why are the Conservatives continually delaying and not bringing forward solutions to solve these really important issues?

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Mr. James Bezan

Apr/28/22 10:34:32 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as we see with this unholy alliance between the NDP and the Liberals, NDP members are standing here helping to support the Liberals and later today are going to push through a motion here that undermines this democratic institution. This motion is about a three-hour debate. I am talking about how the public confidence in our institutions, including the Parliament of Canada, is being undermined by this government, and the NDP is now enabling and allowing this government to cover up this failure of accountability and this unethical behaviour. Now there is this dictatorial approach on how they are going to ram through legislation in this very chamber.

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Mr. Sébastien Lemire (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, BQ)

Apr/28/22 10:35:13 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, when I see what is happening this morning, I feel that today's debate in the House should be about ethics. A debate about WE Charity is clearly a debate about ethics. Government Motion No. 11 also has me wondering about ethics. I wonder how the NDP-Liberal coalition works, what is really going on behind the scenes and what we here in Parliament are not aware of. I wonder about the importance of being publicly accountable to the House of Commons. I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on the current ethics situation, in 2022, in the House of Commons.

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Mr. James Bezan

Apr/28/22 10:35:44 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, here we are wanting to talk about ethics. At the very basis of what we do in this chamber, we have to have the trust of all Canadians, and right now there is a cloud of suspicion hanging over the head of the Prime Minister. This government, this Liberal-NDP coalition, refuses to be held to account and to allow Canadians to look underneath this veil of secrecy of what exactly this Prime Minister has done, whether it comes down to his private vacations or his involvement in the WE scandal. Canadians deserve to know exactly what is up, and people need to be held accountable. If the NDP want to be here giving a get-out-of-jail-free card to the Liberals, shame on them.

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Mr. Michael Barrett (Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, CPC)

Apr/28/22 10:36:41 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is wonderful to hear the enthusiasm from the hon. gentleman opposite and to follow the esteemed member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, as we talk again about a thematic problem for the government. While the Liberals hope, try and pray that prorogation and snap elections, at a time when the Prime Minister had promised that he would not call an election, will make those problems go away, we are here today because these concerns are real for Canadians. Canadians are concerned about the integrity of the institutions that they hold dear. I gesture this way because I talk about the government and I talk about the executive branch. It is important. We are all temporary occupants and guardians of the offices that we hold. When that is called into question, and when those offices are brought into disrepute by actions or allegations of actions, it is incumbent upon us that there be transparency and a fair hearing of that information. The member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman laid it out very well. We have seen this pattern of behaviour by the Prime Minister over a number of years: He believes that the rules do not apply to him. It is the wrong message to send to Canadians, it is the wrong message to send to parliamentarians and it is also the wrong message to send to the world when we hear condemnations that have come from groups such as the OECD, when it comes to legislators from other countries, who are concerned about the appearance of corruption or corrupt practices by members of the government. In this case, specifically with respect to hearings that were had on the WE Charity scandal, we had a number of witnesses who were duly ordered to appear by a parliamentary committee. They were instructed by members of the executive, by federal cabinet ministers, not to appear at committee. They were instructed to defy a lawful order of the House. What is the precedent that sets? I can tell colleagues that on its face it is a bad one. It is that we have a government so afraid of letting the light of transparency shine that it would unroll hundreds of years of precedent and undermine the traditions, customs, practices and legal authority of this place and say those rules do not matter because they make things uncomfortable for it. That puts us in a really tough spot. I heard questions and comments to my colleague for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman asking why we would talk about this and not talk about that. This issue could have been resolved in the summer of 2020, but the Prime Minister prorogued Parliament to kill it and then set up a system where the government “ragged the puck” so that committees could not meet. This issue was then pushed forward through the fall and into the spring of 2021, and before the issue was resolved to come back in the fall of 2021, he called an election, although just that spring he had committed to not call one. All members in the House undertook to continue advocating for the priorities of Canadians, but in this case the Prime Minister had a different priority and was protecting himself from uncomfortable questions. The individuals named in that order to appear at committee must appear. It is incumbent on all members of the House to see to the completion of that work. It is an abdication of our responsibility as members, as the House of Commons, and as the Parliament of Canada not to complete our work. Are there other important issues facing this country? We can bet on that. There is fiscal mismanagement and failure to work with the provinces on important things like health care. The member for Courtenay—Alberni was talking about his coalition partners and a need for action on the opioid crisis facing this country. Hear, hear, I agree. His party had direct input and impact on what this budget looked like. New Democrats are the ones who are going to carry this budget across the goal line for the government. We can talk about that. We continue those consultations. Conservative members are continuing work on this important file, challenging the government on issues like addiction and mental health and what resources it is committing to the provinces. Is it collaborating with the provinces? Has the Prime Minister finally met with the first ministers, the premiers, to talk about what the future looks like for health care in this country? No, he has not. However, unlike the Prime Minister, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can do both of those things. We are talking about the budget; we are talking about addiction and mental health; we are talking about reconciliation with Canada's first people. We are doing a lot of things, but we are not going to forget just because the Prime Minister took the walk up to Rideau Hall, contrary to what he said he was going to do, breaking his word, breaking a promise and acting against the will of all members of this House when we passed a motion saying there would not be an election. That is part of the pattern, so we are back, dealing with it again. Liberals hope that water under the bridge and time on the clock are going to be enough that Canadians will forget, but it is about those precedent-setting behaviours that we take. When we decide that it is okay for ministers to instruct individuals who are duly and lawfully ordered to appear at committee not to appear because they do not like what they might say, what does that say? It says that we are going to cast aside all the traditions of this place. We should have gotten this done in 2020. Liberals have delayed and obstructed this from being completed. We have formed a new Parliament since then. We had an election. Most of us find ourselves in different roles. I know the member for Winnipeg North continues in his role, as was pointed out by my colleague, as the defender or apologist in chief. I have other things that I am working on, but I can also do this at the same time. It is incredibly important. In concluding my remarks, I want to underscore for all members in this place that this is important. It is important that we not allow games by the government to distract from the important role that we have as the guardians of this institution, of the rights of Canadians and of what they hold sacred, and that is trust in these democratic institutions. I move: That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word “That” and substituting the following: “the Third Report of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, presented on Thursday, March 31, 2022, be not now concurred in, but that it be recommitted to the Committee for further consideration, provided that (a) the Committee be instructed (i) to make every effort possible to receive evidence from Ben Chin, Rick Theis and Amitpal Singh, the witnesses who did not comply with this House's order of Thursday, March 25, 2021, to appear before the Committee, (ii) to consider further the concerns expressed in the report about the member for Waterloo's failure “in her obligation to be accurate with a committee”, and (iii) to report back by Monday, October 17, 2022; and (b) the Committee be empowered to order the attendance of the member for Waterloo, from time to time, as it sees fit.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Apr/28/22 10:47:43 a.m.
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The amendment is in order. Questions and comments, the hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Apr/28/22 10:49:05 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, for those who are following the debate today, it is important we recognize right at the very beginning that when the member makes reference to the idea of a “game”, this is really what it is. It is the Conservative Party playing games when we should be debating the many different issues that are having an impact on Canadians every day. What would Motion No. 11 do? Why are Conservatives playing the game today? It is because Motion No. 11 would in essence allow for us to sit longer hours, so MPs have more time to debate. It is nothing new. It happens all the time, whether it is in Ottawa or the many different provincial legislatures. The reality is that the Conservatives do not want that additional time. They do not want to work. Why is my colleague across the way afraid to sit a few extra hours? I ask him to recognize how important debate is inside this chamber.

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Mr. Michael Barrett

Apr/28/22 10:50:16 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I ask the member opposite why he is afraid to have other members on his bench speak. The member speaks more than any other member. He and the member for Kingston and the Islands have the rest of them muzzled so tight that they are not even allowed to talk in this place, so we are not going to take any lessons from the member opposite. Further, what is interesting about Motion No. 11 is that if they are talking about sitting extra hours, why does the motion stipulate that their members do not have to be here? It is just like what we saw in the last Parliament, when they would have only one person in this place, who was the member for Kingston and the Islands, because they were too afraid their members might erupt with some concern about the activities of the government and the Prime Minister, which would reflect very poorly on them. If they had not called an unnecessary election during a pandemic, we could have dealt with this two years ago.

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Mr. Mario Simard (Jonquière, BQ)

Apr/28/22 10:51:13 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member for Winnipeg North said we should focus on issues that are having an impact on Canadians. I think ethics is an issue that has an impact on Canadians. I think that confidence in institutions is an issue that has an impact on Canadians. What happened with the WE organization and the almost $1 billion that was given to a Liberal Party crony raises some serious questions. If we are going to talk about lobbying, since my colleague mentioned it in his presentation, the king of Canadian lobby groups is the oil and gas industry. It is the biggest lobby in Canada and controls a considerable portion of our economy. We can go further still. The emissions reduction fund was launched during the pandemic solely to support the oil and gas sector. I wonder if my colleague is as concerned as I am by oil and gas sector lobbying.

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Mr. Michael Barrett

Apr/28/22 10:52:13 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am always concerned when we have a situation in which a group that is lobbying the government then gives a gift worth, let us say, a quarter of a million dollars to the Prime Minister, and the Prime Minister fails to get permission from the head of the branch of government for which he works and then satisfies all of the criteria laid out by the RCMP for a charge of fraud on government to be laid. That type of behaviour between a lobbyist and a government official is incredibly concerning, and I hope the Prime Minister will co-operate fully with the RCMP in a case like the one I mentioned.

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Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Apr/28/22 10:53:09 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to start by making clear that I am not part of any agreement with the governing party. My accountability is to my neighbours in Kitchener. I know for the hon. member, as well, the housing crisis is significant in his community. This is something that I want to make sure we are speaking about on a regular basis. As for the housing and climate crisis, we might feel differently about that, but to me this place should be focused on those kinds of issues. In his view, why is this more important than getting at the kinds of issues from housing to the poisoning crisis to the climate crisis?

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Mr. Michael Barrett

Apr/28/22 10:53:49 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, that is a great question from the member for Kitchener Centre. I do not think we need to create a ranked list of what the biggest crises are. Do we have a housing crisis in this country? Yes. Do we have an affordability crisis? We sure do. Do we have an opioid crisis and epidemic? Definitely. Are we still dealing with the crisis of the COVID-19 pandemic and its effects? Absolutely, we are. This is an issue that started two years ago, and we need to—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Apr/28/22 10:54:25 a.m.
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Resuming debate, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Apr/28/22 10:54:28 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, it has been an interesting process, to say the very least, and I look forward to the ongoing debates that we will hopefully have today on Motion No. 11. I have a considerable amount to say in regard to Motion No. 11. I really do not have that much to say at this point in time, because I do not necessarily want to play into the same game that the Conservatives are playing right now but rather focus my attention on the issues and what I believe that Canadians want us to be talking about inside the chamber. While I am on my feet, at this point in time, I move: That the House do now proceed to orders of the day.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Apr/28/22 10:55:41 a.m.
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If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the motion be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair. The hon. parliamentary secretary.

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