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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Apr/28/22 11:44:53 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Mr. Speaker, I very much appreciate you taking the time to read the motion. It is a very important motion. It is important that I emphasize at the very beginning of the debate on this motion that we need to recognize that this is nothing new. I have been a parliamentarian since 1988. I have gone through minority and majority governments, and I have been in opposition and am now in government. More often than not, it is likely the case that we have extended hours during the winding up of a session going into the month of June, and that is the essence of this particular motion. We are likely going to witness the Conservatives stand up and, in some righteous way, try to say that this motion is something it is not. However, it is a very straightforward and simple motion. The opposition House leader, when he stands up, will get the opportunity to tell me which governments in particular did not bring in motions of this nature. In my experience, the NDP government in Manitoba, the Progressive Conservative government in Manitoba, Stephen Harper as the Prime Minister of Canada and Prime Ministers before Stephen Harper brought in motions that enabled members to contribute more during debates, and that is the essence of what this motion is all about. People need to realize that. We are often reminded about being in a minority government, and justifiably so. The first time I was elected, it was a minority government. I was part of the official opposition, and I remember Reg Alcock, who was then the opposition House leader, indicating that we had a role to play in being creative and assisting where we could to contribute positively to legislation. This was to see if we could make changes to legislation and ensure that legislation was ultimately getting through so we had the opportunity to have debates on some of the more important pieces of legislation. That was back in 1988, and just eight months ago, last September and October, Canadians gave us a third mandate that was greater than our second mandate. More members of Parliament were elected in the third mandate than in the second mandate, and we recognize that it is a minority government. Canadians want us to be working for Canadians, which means that at times we have to put partisan politics to the side. As members know, sometimes I can be somewhat partisan, and I will admit to that. However, at times, it is important that we put partisanship to the side. I welcome comments from the opposition House leader. He should tell Canadians in the House today whether Stephen Harper brought forward motions of this nature to extend hours. I will let the member opposite know, as I am sure he knows, that the answer to that is yes. It is important that we recognize that at the very beginning, because I can prophesize to a certain degree that we are going to hear the Conservatives note how bad this motion really is. Mr. Speaker, when we take a look at the details of this motion, we see that the core of the motion does two things. One, it enables the House of Commons to sit later in the evenings, and that means we could be sitting until midnight. Well, why is there is a need for us to sit until midnight? It is because there is a substantial legislative agenda. There is legislation the House needs to be able to debate. To facilitate that debate, we have to extend the hours or we have to put even more limits on the amount of debate inside the House. We often see the reaction from the Conservatives when we try to say this legislation needs to pass: They will debate and debate and then argue for more debate time. Mr. Damien Kurek: It's called democracy. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite says that it is called democracy. That is what this bill is doing: providing additional time so that members opposite will be able to debate. We can think of the arguments they have put forward over the last number of weeks and months, saying that they want more debate on government legislation. Well, what the heck? This is the motion they should be voting for. This is the motion they should be supporting so that it passes quickly, because it is going to enable us to have additional hours and hours of debate. Is it because they do not want to put in the effort? I can assure members that every member of the Liberal caucus, due to the support from the New Democratic caucus, will give a commitment to do the work that is necessary to pass the type of legislation that Canadians expect the House of Commons to pass. At the end of the day, the member across the way is wrong in his assertion because of what we have seen from the Conservative Party. We saw it earlier today, just an hour ago. We were supposed to be talking about the issue of how we can accommodate additional hours so that members of the opposition and government would be able to contribute to debate on important legislation. However, the Conservatives brought forward a concurrence motion, as they continue to do to try to frustrate the legislative agenda. It was difficult for me not to speak when that motion came before us, and I can assure members of that, because I did have a number of thoughts with regard to the behaviour of the Conservative Party by bringing forward such a motion. As we have seen, the Conservatives have somewhat of a hidden agenda here. They try to tell the public that they want to co-operate, want to do things with the government and want to assist the government in doing the types of things that need to be done, but when the tire hits the road, what ends up happening is that the Conservative Party continues to look at ways to prevent things from happening. Let me give members a good example of that. The one that comes to my mind is Bill C-8. Mr. John Brassard: I'm glad you mentioned that. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, the opposition House leader says he is glad that I mentioned it, so let me share some thoughts. We are talking about the fall budgetary measures. Bill C-8, the fall economic statement follow-up, is there to support Canadians in a very real and tangible way. It is hard to believe this, but it is true: That bill is still before the House. The number of days we have debated that bill is more days than we have debated the budget of 2022-23. The content of Bill C-8 is of a substantial nature. We are talking about legislation that directly supports Canadians in a very real and tangible way. I could talk about, for example, the enhancement of school ventilation. If we think about the pandemic, that is very much needed and there is support for that. There was the first go-round of the rapid tests. We will remember that back in December and January, when people were saying they needed rapid tests, we were able to get record numbers of these rapid tests so that the provinces and territories would have them for distribution. Well over $1 billion was allocated for those rapid tests. There are also direct supports for small businesses in Bill C-8, supports that small businesses are very much depending on. Bill C-8 is a piece of legislation that should have been passed long ago, but when the government brings it up for debate, the Conservatives look at ways to prevent it from being debated. I made reference to what happened today when the opposition brought forward a concurrence motion. It has brought forward other concurrence motions, even to prevent debate on Bill C-8. The Conservatives will go out of their way to prevent members from debating. The opposition party will often put up roadblocks, no matter what the legislation is. We have even seen that on legislation that it supports. We have an official opposition that has an agenda that says it does not want the government to pass anything, period. An hon. member: We want accountability. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: They call it accountability. That is not accountability, my friend. Mr. Jake Stewart: Oh, yes, it is. That's accountability. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, preventing the government from passing everything it brings into the House of Commons is not accountability. We have a different approach when it comes to accountability. That, my friend, is not accountability. What Canadians voted for was to ensure that the government works with opposition parties, but there is an obligation for opposition parties, in particular the official opposition Conservative Party, to recognize that they too have a mandate. Their mandate is to make the House of Commons a better place to serve the Canadian people. I would challenge members opposite to go to any sort of real forum, like maybe a university class or something of that nature, and enter into the same discussion we will be having today on this issue and talk about it. I suspect there will be no acceptance by any member of the Conservative Party to deal with that issue, because on one hand, the Conservatives will try to frustrate and prevent debate from occurring, and on the other hand, they will say they need more debate time. They want more people to speak on this bill, that bill or the other bill. They are sending very mixed messages. Today we are going to hear Conservative after Conservative, and, as I understand, the opposition House leader in particular, say they do not need this motion and there should have been more co-operation. The House leader is going to talk about the support from my New Democratic friends for the motion. No doubt, he is upset with that fact. The only time the government can get things through the House is when we have cooperation from at least one opposition party. It does not take much to stop government legislation. Give me a dozen high school students from the R.B. Russell school, Sisler, St. John's, or the Maples, put them on the floor of the House of Commons, and I could prevent any bill from being able to proceed. It does not take much to stop legislation. It takes an effort to be able to contribute to the debate to the degree in which one can make the modifications one feels are necessary and, for those pieces of legislation that one is in real opposition to, look at ways to allow for more healthy debate in the chamber. There is not one Liberal member of Parliament who would try to support that when there is good will coming from all sides of the House to have a debate. That is why we will see, when it comes time to vote on this motion, that every Liberal member of Parliament will vote in favour of it. One does not need to even whip the vote, as this will ensure there are additional hours of debate—

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The Acting Speaker (Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie)

Apr/28/22 12:01:47 p.m.
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Order. The hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes is rising on a point of order.

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Mr. Michael Barrett (Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, CPC)

Apr/28/22 12:01:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if perhaps the hon. gentleman had forgotten to share his time to allow another member of the Liberal caucus to have an opportunity to speak. Perhaps the member for Halifax was looking to speak. I would not want him to be deprived of that opportunity.

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The Acting Speaker (Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie)

Apr/28/22 12:02:11 p.m.
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That is debate. I invite the parliamentary secretary to continue his speech.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Apr/28/22 12:02:19 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Mr. Michael Barrett: If you cross your fingers, it might be me. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, one never knows. It might be the member who just stood. He is right. Often, when someone rises on a point of order, it interrupts our train of thought. Here, we are talking about the Conservatives wanting to be able to have that additional debate on bills. Motion No. 11 would do just that. The House would normally adjourn today at 6:30. Once this motion passes, all it would take is any opposition House leader, even the Conservative opposition House leader, and a government minister to come to an agreement before 6:30 to say that we would like to be able to continue on until midnight. What is wrong with that? The legislation is there. When I look at some of the legislation, on some of it I suspect there is going to be a great deal of interest. The one that comes to my mind is the budget implementation act. I suspect that there will be a good number of people who want to be able to speak to the budget implementation act. If members want to contribute to that debate, I would like to see them contribute to that debate, if it is possible, on that piece of legislation. The House is now saying that, if there is an agreement between any opposition House leader and a minister, they could then bring it forward so we can sit until midnight, but we have to do that before 6:30 of that day. Let us think in terms of the time opportunities and the splitting of speeches. For example, more often than not we see members split a speech, so it is then a 10-minute speech with five minutes for questions and answers. That gives the opportunity for four other people to speak to a bill or, in the case as I mentioned, to the budget implementation act. In extending from 6:30 until midnight, one can quickly do the math, and we are talking about 20-plus additional speakers. Those are the individuals who have the full 10 minutes. That does not include the individuals who will stand up and have the opportunity, indirectly, to ask those questions on issues they might have about a piece of legislation or a budget. That is what Motion No. 11 is all about. It is about enabling those 20-plus other members of Parliament to be able to contribute if the need or the desire is there. As I say, if we factor in those three questions per speech on four speeches, there are 12 per hour. We are looking at over five hours. That is a lot of opportunity for members on all sides of the House, if they choose, to get up and provide comments, ask questions and do whatever else they might have to do. That is why I believe it is important. Bill C-8 is the legislation that has been debated now on 10 separate occasions in the House. If we applied that same principle to the rest of the government legislation, it would not be possible. We would not be able to get it done. We would have to bring in a time allocation motion that is very wholesome in its approach. We would have to look at ways to try to pass the legislative agenda in a very, very tight timeframe. We know, and we can anticipate, that the official opposition will bring in concurrence reports. It has demonstrated this and shown it. We know the Conservatives will bring in adjournment motions and other activities to frustrate the legislative process. That does not serve Canadians well. The Prime Minister was very clear yesterday. The message he gave yesterday is something I would like to emphasize today. My take on the message the Prime Minister gave yesterday is that the Conservative Party of Canada, the official opposition, has its own agenda, whatever that agenda might be. More often than not, it is one of personal attack. We saw that yesterday in question period. We saw today before this motion. That is the issue it wants to talk about. On character assassination, one of the colleagues from across the way stood up and talked about Bill Morneau. He was talking about the French villa the then minister of finance had, trying to make it impressive by saying it was in located in France and highlighting this morning that he did not declare it to the commission. The first thing that came across my mind as the member was talking about that was that, a few days after the election, when the minister of finance was elected, the cottage in France was reported in the newspaper. I do not believe the minister of finance was trying to hide anything from his constituents, let alone Canadians. It was actually in the newspaper days after he was elected. However, it does not prevent the Conservatives from focusing their attention on character assassinations. Yesterday the Prime Minister gave a very clear message. The message was very simple. Opposition parties will do what they do, but from the Government of Canada's perspective, the Prime Minister, cabinet and Liberal caucus, at times with the support of the New Democratic Party and, even at times, members from the Bloc, the focus is on Canadians first and foremost. We have seen that in the many different budgetary actions that have been brought forward, whether it is actions to support seniors, which there are many of, or whether it is actions that have been ongoing to support small businesses in Canada. For example, there is Bill C-8, which is the one we have not been able to pass. These are the types of things Canadians want us to get through the House of Commons. Canadians want to see a House of Commons that is much more productive on the issues of the day. That is what I believe we, as a government, will continue to focus on. I am concerned about the cost of housing, inflation, health care and long-term care. I am concerned about the dental plan and making sure we can put that into place. I am concerned about pharmacare and the cost of pharmaceuticals. I am concerned about our environment, and I am looking at initiatives such as the greener home build program and zero-emissions incentives, such as the incentives for electric cars and purchasing. The other day, one of the Speaker's colleagues raised that the Province of Quebec is providing an incentive for people to buy electric vehicles. Now, Ottawa is doing the same, which is an additional incentive. Back then, I had put forward that this was the type of debate that I would love to see all members participate in. We all come from provinces and territories, and can all contribute to that. I take what the province of Quebec is doing as a very strong positive. My challenge to Heather Stefanson, the Premier of Manitoba, would be to do something of a likewise nature. Those are the types of debates that we could be having. At times, we see that debate taking place. That is all a part of allowing for the extension that we are requesting through this particular motion. How many speeches have been given here in this place where we talk a great deal about Ukraine and the war that is taking place in Europe? We have already had take-note debates on it this year. I believe we have also had an emergency debate, but it could have been two take-note debates. The point is that those were debates about a matter that Canadians are generally concerned about, as they are about a multitude of different economic issues. Canadians want to know what the government is actually doing going forward. If there is a silver lining, in terms of the line of questioning that the Conservatives have been putting forward to the government, I would suggest it is that they do not really have much to say about the budget itself, which tells me—

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Apr/28/22 12:02:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the first thing that came to my mind when the member stood up with that particular point of order is that the opposition House leader will be following me. We will have to wait and see with whom he will be splitting his time. We will just have to wait and see and maybe stand up on a point of—

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Stand
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Mr. John Brassard (Barrie—Innisfil, CPC)

Apr/28/22 12:14:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have a question. I am trying to figure this out now. Is the parliamentary secretary to the government House leader actually trying to filibuster his own motion here? I just need to know because I am hungry. I could go for lunch and then come back later.

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The Acting Speaker (Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie)

Apr/28/22 12:14:47 p.m.
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That is a point of debate. The parliamentary secretary can take as much time as he wants, and there will be a 10-minute question period following his speech. The hon. parliamentary secretary.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Apr/28/22 12:14:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I really appreciate the member's comment and I will do my very best to keep my comments shorter than the House leader of the official opposition's. We will have to wait and see. I guess at the end of the day, we will see who actually talked more. All I am trying to do is convince the member opposite, his colleagues, my friends in the Bloc and the NDP, why it is so important that we recognize that this is a motion that every one of us should be supporting. By supporting this motion, what we are saying to Canadians is that we are prepared to work the extra hours. Who in here does not want to work the extra hours? I am prepared to work the extra hours. Who in here does not want to enable more debate time on legislation and budgetary matters? Members can put their hands up if they do not want to. I believe that all members in the House are open to it. Having said that, why would someone not support the legislation? It was raised in the form of a point of order earlier, in regard to the issue of quorum calls and dilatory motions. We have seen these types of things on the floor of the House of Commons on many occasions, whether it is one day or extended periods of time. Even to be able to initiate the extension of the number of hours in a day takes more than the government. We have to go back to an opposition party. It could even be the House leader of the official opposition. These are the types of things that are built into the motion. I mentioned that there are two aspects to the motion. We have the special joint committee dealing with medical assistance in dying. I know my friends in the Bloc have been following that discussion very closely, and understandably so. I believe my friends in the Bloc initially wanted to see this put off until October or to not recess before the summer. There are opportunities for us to ensure that the report comes back to Parliament. We are now setting a date within this motion that it be October 17, 2022, in terms of getting that final report. Given the nature of that special committee, and the requests and comments coming from members on all sides of the House regarding it, it seems to me that is also something that could be supported in the motion. If we continue to go through the motion, there are some simple, straightforward things. When members choose to stand up, they should tell me specifically, even in the question and answer session, what would cause someone to vote against the motion. When that is done, keep in mind and reflect on the fact that these types of motions have been introduced by different levels of government and by different prime ministers, including Stephen Harper. If they could do that, it would be very helpful. Some things that might be somewhat new are that the motion also proposes that we extend the deadline for the special joint committee and amend the Standing Orders so that the House does not meet on New Year's Day, Good Friday, Easter Monday, Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day, Canada Day, Labour Day, the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, Thanksgiving Day, Remembrance Day or Christmas Day. I think making that amendment to the Standing Orders is a very good thing. Are there members in the chamber who would oppose that? I suspect members would actually support that aspect of the motion. It amends the Standing Orders so that the House would not meet the preceding day if Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day, Canada Day or the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation fell on a Tuesday, and would not meet the following day when those days fall on a Thursday. I would suggest that is something all members of the House would support. I suspect that some members might have some concerns with respect to the clause that allows a minister to move a motion to adjourn the House until Monday, September 19, 2022. The motion does not require notice and has to be voted on immediately. There could be some concerns in regard to that. It is interesting that the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons has made it clear that a motion like this would not be moved before the last week the House sits in June. We have no intentions of that. The House leader has made that indication. I have full intentions of being here on June 23. I plan to participate and be engaged until the very end. Whether it is myself or the member for Kingston and the Islands, I suspect one of us will always be inside the chamber because we want to ensure, as much as possible, that people are engaged in the debates that are taking place. However, that cannot happen without the support of at least one other recognized party in the House. The opposition House leader is speculating as to who that might be. I will make a suggestion. There is nothing wrong with the member opposite deciding to become engaged.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Apr/28/22 12:22:42 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, when the member makes reference to the “unholy alliance”, he is referring to the Conservatives and the Bloc, the alliance—

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Mr. John Brassard

Apr/28/22 12:22:42 p.m.
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Or it could be by the unholy alliance.

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Apr/28/22 12:22:47 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as I would not want my hon. colleague across the way to mislead the House, did he just suggest that part (c)(iv) of this motion would require another House leader from another party to be included in that? I have read government Motion No. 11 and spent great time and care examining it. I would certainly not want the member, through what I hope is an innocent error, to mislead the House in his comments with respect to the motion, which as he has pointed out many of us have serious concerns about, specifically regarding this. Therefore, I would ask you to clarify if in fact he is or is not misleading the House so that members in this place can very clearly debate with accuracy the motion we have before us.

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The Acting Speaker (Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie)

Apr/28/22 12:22:47 p.m.
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The hon. member for Battle River—Crowfoot is rising on a point of order.

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The Acting Speaker (Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie)

Apr/28/22 12:24:01 p.m.
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I thank the hon. member for his point of order, but I think it is really a matter of debate. I will ask the parliamentary secretary to continue his speech and to clarify his thoughts on that part of the motion.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Apr/28/22 12:24:17 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am happy to provide some clarity on the issue. I think the government House leader was fairly clear when he indicated that the motion for adjournment would not be taking place before the last week, which would be the week of June 20. At the end of the day, it is a government minister who would be moving such a motion. I will leave it at that, if that answers the member's question, or would he like me to be more specific?

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The Acting Speaker (Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie)

Apr/28/22 12:24:53 p.m.
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The hon. member for Battle River—Crowfoot has another point of order.

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Apr/28/22 12:24:57 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, correct me if I heard the parliamentary secretary incorrectly, but he did reference the involvement of other opposition House leaders in that process, which is not specified in the motion. I would encourage him, through you, to apologize and withdraw those remarks. However, if he is moving an amendment to his government's motion, I am sure the House would be happy to entertain that, but I would not want the issue to be confused as we debate this very important motion, which has a significant impact on the way this place, the centrepiece of Canadian democracy, is able to do business. I hope we can get absolute clarity on this issue before we continue with the debate.

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Mr. Chris Bittle

Apr/28/22 12:26:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I know I enjoy hearing from the hon. member, but this back and forth is debate. The Conservatives will have an opportunity to respond, and I look forward to hearing that, but all of this back and forth is truly just debate.

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Apr/28/22 12:26:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order to respond to the parliamentary secretary's response to my point of order. When it comes to the content of the motion to which the other member has alleged, that is not us debating the substance. That clearly has to do with whether the House is able to accurately debate the substance of this motion, so it has nothing to do with the perspectives of different parties. It has nothing to do with the debate on the motion itself, but truly the substance at the heart of what creates the foundation for any debate within this place.

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The Acting Speaker (Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie)

Apr/28/22 12:27:15 p.m.
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I thank the hon. member for his point of order, but that is another point of debate. The motion is in written form. The hon. parliamentary secretary on debate.

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