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Mr. Damien Kurek (Battle River—Crowfoot, CPC)

May/3/22 11:55:14 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, as we have heard from the Parliamentary Budget Officer, there is a concern that the spending contained in Bill C-8 and other aspects of the government's fiscal agenda is contributing to the inflation crisis that is driving up the cost of everything in this country. I wonder if the member has any comments on the fact that this is not about politics or partisan opinion. Rather, very respected fiscal experts are suggesting that the spending found in Bill C-8 and some of the other fiscal frameworks that the government has set forward is contributing to the cost-of-living crisis that our country is facing. Is restraint needed to ensure that we address the continuing issue of inflation?

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Ms. Soraya Martinez Ferrada

May/3/22 11:56:13 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, I find my hon. colleague’s question a bit ironic. In the last election, his party called for a lot more spending than what the government is planning. I will put this question to him: If his party were in power and made all the investments it wanted to make, what would it have done?

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Mr. Richard Cannings (South Okanagan—West Kootenay, NDP)

May/3/22 11:56:46 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, Bill C-8 and Bill C-2 before it were meant to provide help for businesses struggling to get through the pandemic. They were both drawn up before the omicron variant hit and extended the pandemic by months and months. We have had calls from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business and the Tourism Industry Association of Canada to extend the benefits that were there before to help businesses that have struggled to stay alive until now. Even a few months would help some of them get through this pandemic alive, yet we are seeing the government abandon those programs. The Conservatives, as we just heard, are not trying to support businesses and workers. Why did we not help those businesses get through the summer at least?

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Ms. Soraya Martinez Ferrada

May/3/22 11:57:49 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. I can assure him that since the beginning of the pandemic, this government has always been there for the most vulnerable businesses and Canadians. During the pandemic, eight out of every 10 dollars invested came from the federal government. We will continue to be there to support the businesses, organizations, and people who need it.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

May/3/22 11:58:09 a.m.
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I am not sure if the hon. member for South Okanagan—West Kootenay put his earpiece too close to the microphone, but there was a bit of a buzz. I want to remind members, if they are taking their earpiece off, to make sure that it is not close to the microphone. The hon. member for South Okanagan—West Kootenay.

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Mr. Richard Cannings

May/3/22 11:58:30 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I just noticed that during the response from the member, there did not seem to be interpretation.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

May/3/22 11:58:35 a.m.
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Again, every time the hon. member gets up, there seems to be a buzz on the microphone. I am not sure what is happening. I will allow the hon. member for Hochelaga to repeat her response.

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Ms. Soraya Martinez Ferrada

May/3/22 11:59:45 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, as I was telling my hon. colleague, our government has been there since the beginning of the pandemic to support the most vulnerable businesses, organizations and people. Out of every 10 dollars invested during this pandemic, eight came from the federal government. We will continue to be there for businesses for as long as they need us.

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Mr. Warren Steinley (Regina—Lewvan, CPC)

May/3/22 12:00:09 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, it has been a while. I would have finished my debate on Bill C-8, but the last time I rose, I had five minutes and we had to break for routine proceedings. It is great to get back on my feet and talk about this bill. This bill really looks at some of the budget implementations from the economic and fiscal update in 2021. There are seven parts to this bill. A lot of it has to do with amendments to the Income Tax Act. We have had a lot of questions around the 25% income tax for school supplies and rebates for the farm fuel industry and farmers and producers across Canada, and I will get to those discussions. However, what the Liberals are putting forward is that Conservatives are holding up this debate. I would like to outline a bit of the timeline that we have seen and the incompetence in the legislative agenda by the Liberal government, which it is trying to blame us for. The Liberals did not introduce this bill until December 15, right before the House rose for the Christmas break. My colleagues across the way will know this is factual. Then, the Liberals did not start the second reading debate until February 2. Second reading was completed a week later, on February 10. That was the week of the completion of the second reading debate. The finance committee studied the bill for less than a month and reported the bill back on March 1, after only three meetings. The current debate on report stage started March 4. Since then, there have been four constituency weeks, when the House did not meet, and only six days of debate in this chamber. There were 34 sittings days in the House for this bill to be debated, and they are complaining that this bill has been debated for only 11 days. Once again, the government is seen not completely telling the truth to Canadians on where and how this bill has proceeded through the House of Commons and the committee stage. I said to some of my hon. colleagues yesterday, when I was asking questions, that it has been a long time since I have heard someone be so adamant that it is the opposition's fault that the government is not getting its work done. It is the equivalent of a kid saying, “The dog ate my homework.” Just because the government does not have the capacity to get its legislative agenda through, that does not mean it is the opposition's fault. We are standing and presenting different ideas and different priorities that Canadians might have. A lot of this debate is around making sure the refundable tax credits are given out. There is just a different philosophy on this side of the House. The member for Winnipeg North gets so excited about how he can hand out money to Canadians across the country. On this side of the House, I asked a question that a lot of the constituents in Regina—Lewvan have. The government is excited for tax return season, but Canadians do not want to have their taxes given back to them at tax season. What they would like is for the government not to take them in the first place. The government is not giving out government dollars to Canadians; it is giving back money it should not have taken in the first place. That is the problem we see with the Liberals. They think the $500 billion they are throwing around like a drunken sailor is their money. It is not. The government does not earn a dollar. It does not raise a dollar. The only way the government gets money is by taking it from Canadians who go to work each and every day and earn that money. That is why we feel the government should be a bit more careful with Canadians' money. I should be more careful to make sure I say that I am going to split my time with my good friend, the member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. We are talking about how the government believes the money it is giving back is its money. It is something that we never really hear from people in Saskatchewan and in Regina—Lewvan. They always see tax season as a bit of a difficult time, because they see all the money and all the tax rebates, but the government is saying that people should be so thankful it is giving them refunds. Why take it in the first place? That is the question lots of people come to my office to ask. Another thing is that the Liberals are like Robin Hood. They expect Canadians to kiss the ring and be grateful they are getting this money back at tax time, when they should have had it throughout the year. They should have had it when their kids needed new shoes. They should have had the money they earned when they had to buy school supplies. They should have had that money when inflation made their grocery bill $500 or $600 more each month. They should have had that money throughout the year, not just given back to them at tax time. That is something that I think the people across the way just do not understand, that all this money they continue to shovel out the door, time after time, has to come from somewhere and it is everyday Canadians who are the ones stuck paying the bill. We have heard a lot of questions about schools and when teachers can get their rebates back. Do members know what I hear from teachers and what they are concerned about? What teachers and people in the school divisions across Saskatchewan are concerned about is the hundreds of thousands of dollars more that it is going to cost them each year to keep the classrooms warm in the winter and cool in the summer, because of the NDP-Liberals carbon tax. In rural Canada, the cost of fuel for people to have their kids bussed to school continues to increase each and every day. That is something that hits people hard in their pocketbooks. It is basically a trickle-down effect. The municipalities and the provinces have to pay for that because of a Liberal initiative that continues to put pressure on each and every level of government. When we speak with school board trustees in the school divisions across Saskatchewan, that is one of their major concerns, and it is something they cannot control. They cannot control what the cost is going to be when they have to keep filling those buses with expensive fuel because of the Liberal carbon tax. In Saskatchewan, when it is -40°C, they have to have heat in their classrooms. What the current government continues to do, in basically each and every one of its pieces of legislation, is ensure that people in rural Canada are treated differently than everyone else across the country. The government continues to try to divide Canadians and make sure that what it is doing is seen as environmentally friendly, yet more Canadians are being left behind. Another thing I find interesting when it comes to the economic and fiscal update in 2021 and now Bill C-8, and the government's budget as a whole in 2021, is the fact that the PBO said that of the $500 billion that was earmarked for COVID, because my colleague talked about COVID a lot in his speech, $200 billion was not even for COVID measures at all. He said it was not accounted for in COVID spending: $200 billion of the $500 billion the government spent, and said it needed to spend, on COVID basically is not accounted for whatsoever. There really needs to be more accountability when it comes to the government's legislative agenda. I think that is what the Liberals do not like. As we have seen time and again, accountability is not very high up on the government's list of priorities. Whether it be with respect to the Emergencies Act committee or the WE Charity scandal and the ethics committee, when it comes to accountability, this is definitely something where the government used to believe that sunlight was the best disinfectant, but that was long in the past. I remember when, in 2015, the Prime Minister used to do his Care Bear stare, hand over heart, and say that the government had the backs of Canadians. With friends like the Prime Minister, Canadians truly do not need any more enemies. If this is the idea of the Prime Minister having the backs of Canadians, when 50% of them are $200 away from bankruptcy, when inflation is going to 6.7%, when the idea of owning a home in Canada for people under 30 is now a nightmare because they will never be able to do it and they will live in their parents' basement until they are 40, I think they would rather that he just take his walk in the snow and say goodbye.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate), Lib.)

May/3/22 12:09:59 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, I am certainly from the vintage of the Care Bear stare. I always thought the member was quite a bit younger than me and assumed that he would not even understand that reference, but he just looks great for his age, I guess. I just do not understand the end goal here of the Conservatives. We have had speaker after speaker, more than 50 speakers, speak to Bill C-8 since report stage. The Conservatives have clearly identified some issues they have with the bill, and I get that, but does that justify doing absolutely everything humanly and procedurally possible to prevent this legislation from going forward?

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Mr. Warren Steinley

May/3/22 12:10:41 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, I do remember the Care Bear stare. There was one back in the 1980s and there was one again in 2015. I also remember the Prime Minister talking about having to imagine things that are different than space and time. Maybe that is what the current Liberal government is doing, imagining different space and time. The reason it cannot get its legislative agenda passed might be the fact that it does not actually understand time anymore. What my colleague has said is basically that it is the Conservatives' fault that the Liberals are not getting their job done. When I was sent to the House of Commons by the constituents of Regina—Lewvan, and I am honoured to speak on their behalf, not one of them said when they voted for me, “Please, please make sure the Liberals get their agenda passed.” That was not a priority for my constituents in Regina—Lewvan. Therefore, I am going to ask questions on their behalf. I will do it as often as I can, to make sure that if this thing does get passed, it is done in the right way.

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Mr. Yves Perron (Berthier—Maskinongé, BQ)

May/3/22 12:11:46 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask my colleague about a specific aspect of Bill C-8, and that is the tax on underused housing. Everyone agrees with the basic intent. My first question has to do with the rate of 1%. Is that enough? We know that other places like British Columbia and France have much higher rates than that. Other than the rate, there is also the way this tax will be applied. The federal government is once again infringing on areas of jurisdiction belonging to the provinces, and Quebec in particular. I think that this should be done in co-operation with the municipalities, rather than imposed by the great, all-knowing Ottawa. What are my colleague's thoughts on that?

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Mr. Warren Steinley

May/3/22 12:12:30 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, my colleague and I worked together on the agriculture committee and I do appreciate his insight. One thing I would say is that the current government has not really taken a broad enough approach to housing. The Liberals brought forward a budget here in 2022 where they are not going to have one house built in a year and a half or two years. I think a provincial approach to housing is a good idea. As a member of the legislature of Saskatchewan, I had some responsibilities and I know how the Province of Saskatchewan has reacted to housing issues. There should be respect for provincial jurisdiction, so provinces should have a good say and a fair say on some of the housing initiatives, moving forward. The current government has failed on housing since 2015. Housing has gotten less affordable. Vacancies are fewer. Really, it is just a dog's breakfast when we look at the current government's housing initiatives.

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Mr. Randall Garrison (Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, NDP)

May/3/22 12:13:28 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan and others in the Conservative caucus have spoken many times about the impact of the rising costs on farmers and their opposition to the carbon tax. I would like to know why the Conservatives then have been holding up Bill C-8, which means that farmers are being held back from getting their rebates on the carbon tax.

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Mr. Warren Steinley

May/3/22 12:13:50 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, I really appreciate the question from the NDP-Liberal member. I was just at the national Holstein convention. There are 400 dairy farmers in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. What did they talk about? It was not about getting a rebate on the carbon tax, but about how much it will be for them to pay it when it gets to $170 a tonne. That is their biggest concern. They are tired of begging for scraps from the NDP-Liberal government's table. They want to be listened to. They want the carbon tax scrapped so they are able to actually make a living for themselves and their families. Their biggest concern right now is not the fact that their rebate is not ready to be submitted yet. Their biggest concern is that the government has not listened to them and has not exempted a lot of farm fuels. It is almost like the Liberals do not care what farmers across this country think. Maybe what this member and a lot of other members should do is take the opportunity to visit some farmers, as the member for Kings—Hants did in Saskatoon a couple of months ago. It was nice to finally see a Liberal in Saskatchewan again, but not for that long.

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Mr. Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC)

May/3/22 12:14:57 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, I will note at the outset that I will be moving a subamendment at the end of my speech to Bill C-8. As always, it is a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. Out of respect for the four young men who lost their lives recently in Kingston, I will be taking a brief moment of silence to recognize their service and sacrifice, and to honour their memories. On that note, I would like to thank all those who have served, both past and present. We have a number of people in the House who have served, and I thank all of them for their service. I thank all of our brave soldiers, who are currently enrolled in the forces, for enhancing our country's safety. Last night I debated about what I was going to speak about on the bill, and one thought that came across my mind was the idea of trust in the government and how much trust the average Canadian should or should not put in government. I also thought about trust when it comes to fiscal affairs and trust when it comes to spending. Trust, when it comes to this country's finances, is important. Do Canadians trust this government, and all of us here, to be good stewards of their money? When we think about finances, and I recognize that no government is perfect, the Prime Minister previously said things such as “the budget would balance itself” and that the budget would be balanced by 2019. I believe that was to be set in stone. During our most recent federal election he said that a reporter, or Canadians generally, ought to forgive him if he did not “think about monetary policy”. These things worry me as a parliamentarian, a Canadian, a father, a husband and a member of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. I have spoken about my background in the House, and I will do it again, because I think it is appropriate at this time. My dad came from Italy when he was in his early teens, my mom came as a young woman, and they met in Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. My dad was a sawmill worker. My mom was a homemaker who went back to work when I was about 10 years old. My parents paid off two houses on one income. As a young man, we did not go out for dinner because we could not afford it. Family trips to Vancouver were a big deal. Now, as a parliamentarian, I have to be candid, it was fairly novel to get on a plane. The luster has worn off, I will admit, but it is still an honour to be here at all times. However, what I learned is this: It is important to have one's own financial house in order, and that house includes this House and what we are spending in the House. It is important to be a good steward of the economy. I remember my dad driving a 1967 Ford into the 1990s. Why did he do that? It was because that was a prudent financial move. My dad bought a truck, I believe, in 1981, and he practically ran it into the ground. We, as government, cannot act like we are leasing a Rolls‑Royce when we can only afford a lesser vehicle. The problem I am arriving at is this: Interest rates are rising. This means that life will become more expensive. I am focusing on spending here, but there is a lot to say on Bill C-8. We just saw interest rates rise about a half a point, which is going to make every mortgage more expensive. It is going to make every line of credit more expensive, and there will be an impact on housing. There will be an impact on spending generally. However, this fall economic statement increases government spending by about $71.2 billion. I am concerned about the lack of relief when it comes to the cost of living in this bill. It is a fairly lengthy bill and I know that colleagues across this House will point to aspects of the bill that are meritorious. One thing I am highlighting, though, is the gravity of the spending $71.2 billion. This is against a backdrop of inflation hitting 6.7% in March. The last time inflation was that bad was in the early nineties when the GST had just been introduced. I remember a can of soda going from 95¢ to $1.02, and we just were not used to using our pennies. That is where inflation is right now. My colleagues across the aisle, in particular, have pointed out that inflation is a global problem. Globally, inflation is occurring but that does not mean that we ignore it locally because inflation is exacerbated by local policies. The printing of money necessarily contributes to inflation because more money is chasing around the same amount of property and services. This high-spending agenda also concerns me. When we have high deficits, who pays? One of the reasons that payday loans, for instance, have been heavily scrutinized is because they are compounded, and that can result in death by a thousand financial cuts. There are people who simply cannot afford another payment, another tax, or another bit of interest. The same goes for credit cards. With all due respect, I see the government, if I can draw an analogy, as having a credit card when it comes to the Canadian economy and when it comes to spending on behalf of Canadians, and here is the problem. It is like that credit card is maxed out, so rather than pay it off, the government keeps on making the minimum payments. That sounds like a good plan, but eventually the minimum payment just will not cut it, so what do we do? We up our credit limit. That is what I feel is happening when it comes to this country's finances. What happens when this country's credit limit cannot increase any more? In 10 years, the Prime Minister may be going off to another climate conference in Scotland, or he may be surfing in Tofino, but my question is this: When that credit card is maxed out, who is going to pay? The Prime Minister will likely not be in this House to recognize that, so who is going to pay? I am, and we are. The people of Canada are. Research from my office indicates that federal interest payments alone will reach $26.9 billion in 2022-23. This is estimated to be $49.2 billion by 2026-27. That is $16 billion. My rudimentary research is that our military operates on a budget of $22 billion per year, so three-quarters of our military spending will be taken up just in the differential of interest payments between 2022 and 2026-27. That should be concerning. We still have spent double our military expenditure in just interest in this last year, so how do we deal with this? Is it going to be a home equity tax? The government has said no, but it has to come from somewhere. Is it going to be tax on capital gains? Is the NDP-Liberal government going to go there? Will it be taxes on the middle taxes, more taxes for more spending? Those are my concerns about this. I have more to say, but I want to make sure that I move this amendment in time. Therefore, I move, seconded by the member for Brantford—Brant: That the amendment be amended by adding the following: “and that the committee report back no later than 10 sitting days following the adoption of this motion.”

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/3/22 12:25:23 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

The amendment to the amendment is in order. Continuing with questions and comments, we have the hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate), Lib.)

May/3/22 12:25:50 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, I listened quite attentively to the member's discussion about the level of debt that has been taken on by this country, and there is no doubt that it is an extremely large amount that was taken on, in particular to provide assistance to Canadians collectively throughout the COVID pandemic. I will give this member the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he was not in this House when a lot of that funding was passed and spent, but I would like to inform him that the vast majority of that spending was done through unanimous consent motions. Conservatives voted in favour of those. All of this member's colleagues voted in favour, quite often through unanimous consent, for spending that money. I am curious how he can justify standing before this House and being overtly critical of the spending, when his own colleagues voted in favour of it all.

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Mr. Frank Caputo

May/3/22 12:26:49 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, I can be critical of imprudent spending. When my colleagues stood up we were in the midst of a pandemic, and I admit that at this point we are still in an endemic. However, as the colleagues across the aisle like to point out, we have recovered all of the jobs and our economy, according to them, is roaring. We are here debating what is happening today, not the spending that happened yesterday. Bill C-8 is about today, so to reference and allude to the fact that I simply do not know what I am talking about because I am talking about today, with respect, misses the mark.

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Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, BQ)

May/3/22 12:27:39 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his very sensitive speech. I came to really enjoy his company after spending 12 days with him on a recent mission in Italy. I would like to know what he thinks about housing affordability. The real estate market is obviously overheated, given that the vacancy rate is under 3%, prices have gone up 18.6% over the past five years and it is considered normal to pay $2,225 a month in rent in Montreal, judging from what the government is saying. What does my colleague think about that? Does he have any solutions to propose?

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