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May/4/22 7:50:26 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, actually, I disagree with the hon. member on that discussion about a guaranteed basic income. I have spent my four years in this world talking about opportunity for all. What I mean by that in northern Saskatchewan is creating the opportunity for people to participate in a prosperous economy. I am so proud of the fact that in the last few months in my riding there have been projects in the forestry industry and some projects in mining that are going to create 3,000 jobs in northern Saskatchewan. I firmly believe in the value of having a good job and a stable income. The self-worth that comes with that is invaluable in the context of solving many of the social issues that we have in a riding like mine in northern Saskatchewan.

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Mr. Matthew Green (Hamilton Centre, NDP)

May/4/22 7:51:21 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I could not idly sit by when I heard the previous speaker suggest that it is only through their employment that people find self-worth. I will give the hon. member the opportunity, given the context of the debate that is before us today, to rise in this House and suggest ways in which he would be willing to support the basic dignity around housing, income supports and health care that go beyond settler-colonial resource extraction, which, quite frankly, is often at the heart of this continued perpetuation of genocide against indigenous women and girls.

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The Chair

May/4/22 7:52:01 p.m.
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Before we move on, I want to remind the member that a tie might have been necessary there. The hon. member for Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River.

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Mr. Gary Vidal

May/4/22 7:52:15 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I may fundamentally disagree with the member on some issues, but if he is interested, I have some information that was provided to me recently from someone I am going to call “Estella”. Estella is an indigenous woman who grew up in northern Alberta, a first nations woman who ran away from an abusive home many times. She felt compelled to write this op-ed, she says in this document. She says, “Today I am a heavy equipment operator at an oil sands mine in northern Alberta. I make a good wage, more than twice what I made in the city”. I am going to leap ahead to where she talks about the opportunity to have income and have a good job. She says, “To get training, to get a good paying job, and to support their family and feel proud about it. The resource sector provides that opportunity to tens of thousands of us. I wish it was more. Instead of pitting us against the resource sector, the government should be ensuring that more of those jobs are available to people like me.” I remind members that Estella is a member of Cowessess First Nation and a board member from the Indigenous Resource Network.

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Mr. Martin Shields (Bow River, CPC)

May/4/22 7:53:32 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, one of the things we talk about here is education. We are doing a lot of work and a lot of discussion here. How could the learning in the public education sector in each province be coordinated so more people might learn about this within the public education sector, which is the responsibility of the provinces?

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Mr. Gary Vidal

May/4/22 7:54:03 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, education is absolutely fundamental to the success of many on their journey out of poverty, out of some of the social challenges that we find in a riding like mine in northern Saskatchewan. I would remind the member that my riding has the second-largest indigenous population in the country. I have been working with people in northern Saskatchewan to make sure that they get access to a quality education. To upgrade that quality of education, we must work in conjunction with the federal department that is responsible for education on first nations and with the provincial folks who are responsible for the education off the first nations. We have to have a coordinated effort to educate young people, enhance their opportunity and give them that chance of success.

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Mr. Jamie Schmale (Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, CPC)

May/4/22 7:54:57 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I rise today in the House to speak to a matter that evokes strong emotions on all sides, a matter that speaks to the tragedy of racism and discrimination and a matter that requires continued vigilance to overcome. Of course, I speak of the horrors of the murdered and missing indigenous women and girls in this country. Before I get into my speech, I would like to thank my colleague, the member for Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, for sharing his time with me this evening. The stats speak for themselves. Indigenous women and girls in Canada are disproportionately affected by all forms of violence. Although indigenous women make up just 4% of Canada's female population, 16% of all women murdered in Canada between 1980 and 2012 were indigenous. The 2019 general social survey on victimization, along with Stats Canada, has indicated that indigenous women were more likely to experience intimate partner violence than non-indigenous women. Furthermore, during our study on sex trafficking of indigenous people last June, experts told us that 52% of human trafficking victims are indigenous and that the average age of exploitation of an indigenous girl is, shockingly, just 12 years. Although the indigenous population up to the age of 14 makes up 7.7% of all Canadian children, they represent 52.2% of the children in care. We also know that studies have highlighted that having a child in the welfare system is the most common feature among women and girls who enter prostitution. Most alarmingly, the statistics may be even more tragic, as experts told the committee that one of the biggest problems is how difficult it is to accurately track how many victims there are of human trafficking and sex trafficking, as well as to accurately track the correct number of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. Without real effort from the government to ensure that a robust framework is in place, with adequate resources that are made available for indigenous data collection, in consultation with indigenous experts and organizations, the true story of their reality may never be truly known. The final report of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls made 231 calls for justice in 2019. It took two years of waiting for the government's action plan on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, a plan that many involved called toxic, flawed and unsafe. The government has failed to address one of the core elements in the inquiry: that any plan has an obligation to the victims, their families and all indigenous women and girls, to ensure their voices are reflected so that indigenous women today and future generations of women and girls can live their lives free of violence. Unfortunately, the government's most recent budget implementation act also fails in this regard. With respect to investments in the budget to address the safety of indigenous women and girls, the Native Women's Association of Canada described its concerns: “We're very concerned that on the surface of this reading of the budget announcement, we don't see where the investment is going to be and we have a very serious concern about that.” The track record of the government has become abundantly clear. Instead of tackling the systemic inequalities, violence and unsafe conditions for indigenous women and girls in this country, it simply throws money and hopes those issues go away. This will do nothing to empower indigenous women and girls. Rather, it will simply grow bureaucracies here in Ottawa. To be fair, past governments must share the blame in continuing this broken “Ottawa knows best” system, a system that has a profoundly lasting and damaging impact on indigenous culture, heritage and language. For true reconciliation to begin, this paternalistic approach to indigenous people and issues must end. We must not sideline off-reserve and non-status communities either. Women and girls tend to gravitate to urban centres to escape violence, and that creates greater problems, because they cannot access employment, adequate housing or even shelter, and they become victims of a cycle that has been perpetuated by a lack of resources and inadequate supports for them. In closing, indigenous women and girls need a safe, culturally supportive environment in which they are free from violence, sexual trafficking and exploitation. If we are honest about reconciliation, the current and succeeding governments have an obligation to honour indigenous perspectives when addressing underlying factors that create the unsafe conditions for women and girls, such as precarious housing, poor living conditions, high rates of unemployment, unstable employment, low working wages and the lack of access to social and economic resources. I look forward to the questions ahead.

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Ms. Andréanne Larouche (Shefford, BQ)

May/4/22 8:00:02 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, my colleague touched on a subject that is very important to me. In fact, at yesterday's general meeting of the All-Party Parliamentary Group to End Modern Slavery and Human Trafficking, I was re-elected vice-chair. We have studied this issue extensively. My colleague mentioned that 54% of human trafficking victims are indigenous women. That is huge. He also said that before concrete solutions to help these women can be proposed, a lot more data and studies are needed. During the pandemic, some of these numbers were lost. The pandemic really complicated the research being done to get a more accurate picture of human trafficking and its impact on indigenous women. I would ask my colleague to comment on that.

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Mr. Jamie Schmale

May/4/22 8:00:52 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I thank my friend for Shefford for that question. She is absolutely right. Even in committee, the experts said that the numbers were not as accurate as they probably could be, because the correct information was not there and the data was not there. We heard a number of recommendations from committee, all the way from changing how indigenous police services are able to operate, act and still have the same power as off-reserve police services, to how they can use their officers who know the community, know the people in the community and use traditional methods to deal with certain situations. That was one in a very long series of recommendations that I hope the government takes into account. I hope it actually acts on some of them, because I think we can have real change and help a lot of people.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

May/4/22 8:01:42 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji. I would like to thank the member for his intervention. That was great. I am glad that he outlined some of the factors that lead to the incidents that we see all too often. I wanted to ask the member what he thinks about all those indicators impacting indigenous people's and indigenous women's perspectives on what they need to rely on, including the perceived need for resource industries and gaining employment in those kinds of sectors, because those sectors are the places where most of the violence is being caused. Could the member share what his thoughts are on that?

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Mr. Jamie Schmale

May/4/22 8:02:27 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I appreciate the question from my friend for Nunavut. She is a great advocate for her territory in committee. I enjoy working with her. In fact, I have learned a lot from her and respect everything she has to say. I truly enjoy my time with her. I see the member for Winnipeg Centre right in front of her, who also spent time on committee. I learned a lot from her as well. In terms of the resource part, we heard that as the economy recovers from COVID, indigenous people have a very large, young population. I think if we want to actually reach full potential, we need to have strategies so they at least feel included. I think they would, and I think that is a shortfall of governments past. It has been a big failure all the way through. On resources, I was at a conference not too long ago in Vancouver. A lot of the conversation was on an estimated $2-trillion worth of minerals in first nations communities, and they think that number is low. That could provide an economic boost to a number of communities, especially in the north and remote areas. That is just one part. There is a not-for-profit in my riding that does coding for students in Nunavut. There is a whole series of opportunities. If we stop the top-down approach and actually listen to people on the ground, we can make some changes here instead of the Ottawa-knows-best approach.

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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

May/4/22 8:04:11 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I noted the member's conversation about what police services should do. It has not come up yet in the take-note debate. I want to ask about the risk to indigenous women and girls who are murdered by police. Does he have any comment on the problem of wellness checks and how we might be able to remedy that problem?

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Mr. Jamie Schmale

May/4/22 8:04:38 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would be open to hearing anything that helps solve this problem and makes it safer for indigenous women and girls anywhere. As we did here in committee, there are a number of changes that can be made so that indigenous police services have a level playing field with non-indigenous police services. That might help people feel safe and change that relationship a bit. I would support that, and any other measures that might help the situation.

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The Chair

May/4/22 8:05:10 p.m.
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I want to remind members that I want to keep this discussion as organic as I possibly can without having to cut folks off. The quicker the answers are, the quicker the questions will be, and we can get more people participating in the debate. Resuming debate, the hon. member for Manicouagan.

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Mrs. Marilène Gill (Manicouagan, BQ)

May/4/22 8:05:28 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I rise today as a parliamentarian, but also as a woman and as a mother. This is an issue that has impacted my life, so what I have to say is quite personal. Let me begin by saying that I went into politics because I am a woman, but I asked myself one question during my second pregnancy when I found out the baby was a girl. I remember thinking to myself that it was going to be hard to have a girl in this world. I actually thought having a second son would be easier. I say this as a woman, a white woman. If I try to picture what that would be like for an indigenous woman, I cannot even imagine what I might have thought at the time. Indeed, this world we live in is, on the whole, still hard. Just look at the take-note debate we are having this evening. In French, it is called “exploratoire”, but to me that is exactly the wrong thing to call it. We do not need to explore the topic, to take note of it as though it were something new. It is not new. These reflections began about 15 years ago. My daughter is now 14. Roughly 10 years later, I found myself working as coordinator of the Regroupement des femmes de la Côte-Nord, a group that focuses on advocacy and rights organizations. I also found myself working in shelters and addressing gender equality issues and, a little naively, I organized a march with many people, including indigenous women, of course. I would like to salute my friend Béatrice Picard, from Pessamit, as well as Michèle Audette, whom I invited to the march just before she was appointed commissioner. We marched through the streets with other women, and to me at, that point, it was all very theoretical. However, women came up to me on those streets and shared their stories with me, stories that often began with something unthinkable and often had no ending, because, as some of my colleagues have mentioned, some of these people are still missing. We do not know what happened to them, and they may never be found. It was a very symbolic march for me, because I was also there with my daughter. I must say that this is very important for the people of our region, but also for the entire population, both in Quebec and in Canada. Today we are being told that this is a take-note debate and that we are looking at what is happening in committee. I must admit that makes me think of the song “Fatigué”, or tired, by Renaud. There are some topics like this one that we are tired of, not because the topic is unimportant, but because we are still talking about it today. We have to keep talking in the House and bringing up statistics. I do not think we need any more statistics or quotes or commissions to realize that it is time to do something about this. I have a really hard time with this. Earlier one of my colleagues said that we ask questions in the House when we know we will not get a valid response. We are truly engaging in a soliloquy, a dialogue with ourselves, a monologue in the House. I know someone who is here this evening in our gallery who has worked hard for the rights of indigenous peoples. He has done a lot, and I would like to acknowledge him. We are talking about legislation, but not implementation. We need to reach the implementation phase. We often talk about systemic discrimination. In fact, the Indian Act is a prime example. It harms women. We talked about how residential schools are a form of systemic discrimination, institutional discrimination, but they still stemmed from a desire for cultural genocide. Thinking back to the women I marched with who knew people who had disappeared, thinking back to the impact of the residential schools and the Indian Act, I can say that there are multiple factors at play, not just one. I agree with the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations, who is full of good intentions. However, when I asked earlier what had been done for women experiencing violence during the COVID-19 crisis, given that we knew violence was on the rise, and why more funding had not been made available when the government had been able to find money for so many other areas, I was told that cultural centres would be built in a few years. It is interesting. The government cannot do one thing and not do other things; it is complex. We also need cultural centres. When we talk about cultural genocide, we are talking about language and culture. When I hear that in the House, I think we are still overlooking so much. I mentioned our work in committee, where exactly the same thing goes on, when we bring up all the government's spending, budgets and supplementary budgets. I heard it again earlier, when it was said that $60 million has been allocated to British Columbia, and someone was told that $2 million had been allocated to her riding and that it would be so great. I would like to stay above the fray and say that perhaps what we need is drastic action. That is what the people here in the House tonight are expecting. Quebeckers, and Canadians as well, are probably expecting drastic action. We were talking about housing recently in committee. We have known for ages that this is one of the key difficulties that indigenous communities are facing. Housing is connected to many things. In any case, it is a basic need. We keep being told that targets will be met, that it is very difficult to build in the north, and thinking that living there and having a house means that it must be possible to build it. In short, I find that there is a lot of bad faith. I know that we are constrained by our budgets. However, for me, the government is talking a good game and making it look like it is taking action by sprinkling money around, acknowledging that people have been waiting for a plan for three years, and saying that it will be presented soon. Tonight's take-note debate applies a bit of pressure. I do not think that the government can be taken seriously. Personally, even if I am not the right person to ask the question, if I told first nations people in my riding, who make up about 15% of the population, to watch tonight's debate, to listen to everything going on in committee and to consider everything we do here concerning indigenous affairs, I believe that they would not be satisfied. I do not think they would be satisfied with the answer I was given earlier. People are saying that we should not play politics in the House. It is a little hard not to play politics. That is what I heard, but I do not think they would be satisfied. No, they want houses. They want security. They want the same thing everyone does. What we hear in the House is the same old rhetoric. People are saying that they are doing their best, but they are not doing their best. I call on all members of the House, especially the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations and the government, to show that they truly do want reconciliation. If we want to reconcile with someone, we cannot unilaterally impose terms. That is not how reconciliation works. We must listen to what the other person wants and accommodate their requests. Of course it is hard. Money certainly plays a big part, but I do not think that it is the only factor. I think there are measures that can be taken. I have been in the House for seven years now, and I certainly would not say or imply that I am naive, because I am not. We come to the House because we want to serve our constituents. We are humble, but we very much want to serve them. I feel as though it is one disappointment after another. I find myself thinking, “my God, they are making things up as they go along”. I see a lot of this. When the government does not have a plan, it makes things up. I am disappointed by what I see. If there is one thing the government can do tonight and in the weeks and years to come, maybe it can provide some reassurance about that. What I heard tonight from the minister himself is not satisfactory. My daughter is very young right now and tells me she absolutely does not want children, but I really hope we will all have the courage to do the work to ensure that, when she is a woman a few years from now, she will not ask herself the same question that indigenous women ask themselves, about whether they even want daughters because our girls are always in danger and come into this world without benefiting from the same conditions, the same actual rights. Yes, we do have theoretical rights, but we also have the actual reality of our existence to contend with. I would like every indigenous woman to come into this world knowing they have the same rights and need not fear being assaulted or killed. I would like the government to take concrete action. I expected nothing less from the minister than bold action, but that is not what we saw this evening.

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Ms. Yvonne Jones (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources and to the Minister of Northern Affairs, Lib.)

May/4/22 8:15:39 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, my colleague, like myself, represents many indigenous women, who have sought and persevered through great challenges and sacrifices in their lives. They have grieved the loss of so many among them. I also know she understands that reconciliation does not come easy. It is a very difficult conversation, and it requires a tremendous commitment of government, one that our government, for the first time in history, has stepped up to do. The member talks about next steps and what needs to happen. I would ask her to tell the House today, if there were one thing she could do on this path to help missing and murdered indigenous women and their families who are suffering, what would that one thing be? What would she pose to the government and to the House of Commons this evening that needs to happen?

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Mrs. Marilène Gill

May/4/22 8:16:47 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I replied earlier by saying that all the reports and recommendations have been written. They are there, and I am not about to reinvent the wheel. If I did, as a white woman, I would find myself pointing out which of the recommendations are the best. As a parliamentarian, however, I would really like to see a plan for these recommendations. The government has said that it will fix the issue of indigenous housing by 2030. We can see pretty clearly in the government's own numbers that it is not going to work, and it is not that hard to calculate. It is a simple rule of three. We are not going to get there by 2030. This is the kind of thing we see in the House of Commons. I want to see a concrete and realistic plan. What I want to hear is that there is a real desire for reconciliation, that steps must be taken and that the government is ready to take them and ready to make proposals. Again, consultation is needed, because reconciliation is not a unilateral process. The plan must therefore include first nations. It might seem like I am asking for something huge, but it is really just a plan, and I think that anyone who wants to achieve anything needs a plan.

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Mr. Gary Vidal (Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, CPC)

May/4/22 8:18:04 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I listened intently to my colleague from the Bloc. We work together on the INAN committee, and I appreciate her advocacy and the work she does there. Since 2015, Canadians have seen from the government a lot of announcements, a lot of media headlines and a lot of promises related to solving the long-standing issues facing indigenous people. The problem is always in the follow-through. My colleague spoke about the frustration and some of the concerns with that. In this case, tonight we are talking about the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls public inquiry, which began in 2016. It issued a final report in 2019. There was then a year delay in tabling the action plan. Would my hon. colleague comment on how detrimental these delays are, how frustrating some of these unfulfilled promises are, and how they impact the trust relationship that is necessary with indigenous people, a relationship that so desperately needs more trust?

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Mrs. Marilène Gill

May/4/22 8:19:14 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I have a lot to say about that. First, the government always has a good reason for the delays. I am being sarcastic, of course. The 2021 election was mentioned. I am pretty sure I was not the one who decided to call the election; the government did, so it only has itself to blame. Then it talked to us about COVID‑19. Obviously it cannot do two things at once. It shuts down Parliament and then it says there are delays. It is not even funny. I think this is completely appalling and irresponsible of the government. I have to say that it has the opportunity once again to do something, but it keeps offering nothing but red herrings. I hope it will listen to us. I would also like to go a bit beyond the question. I am talking about my seven years here, but it seems like all we have done in those seven years—I believe my colleague talked about this—is nothing more than communications. We can associate the word “reconciliation” with the Liberals, but I currently have no idea what has been done for reconciliation. We are truly dealing with a PR firm in which the government gets the top role. To me it is all just smoke and mirrors. Sadly, that is what I have to say this evening. I would like to see something tangible and not just a PR firm possibly focused on vote-buying.

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Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP)

May/4/22 8:20:52 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the member noted the lack of housing. In fact, there is the lack of support from the government for a dedicated “for indigenous, by indigenous” housing strategy. Further to that point, there is also a lack of specific allocation to indigenous women's and girls' housing. I wonder if the member can comment on that and on how the government's inaction is enabling the continuation of the genocide of indigenous women and girls.

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