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House Hansard - 75

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 19, 2022 10:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 75 - May/19/22
Mr. Ben Lobb (Huron—Bruce, CPC)
  • May/19/22 10:08:05 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I am going to share my time with the member for Louis-Saint-Laurent. I thank the minister for her work tonight. It is quite a feat to put in all the time and to answer all the questions, and I thank her for that. Andrew Kendrick, a naval architect with 40 years' experience, appeared before committee. His statement was that it costs three to five times the world price and two to four times longer to deliver ships in Canada versus the rest of the world. Does the minister have any comment on that? Has she investigated and verified this to be true, or does she feel we are in line with world price and world delivery?
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Hon. Filomena Tassi (Minister of Public Services and Procurement, Lib.)
  • May/19/22 10:08:46 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, there is no question that COVID has presented challenges, and the shipyards are no exception to that. These challenges have involved problems with getting labour, as well as supply chain issues, and there is no question that that has resulted in some delays and some costs. I would confirm that. I think the testimony the member is referring to was not testimony that was given by everyone, although I can appreciate that there may have been a person who gave that specific testimony.
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Mr. Ben Lobb
  • May/19/22 10:09:27 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, he was the project manager from 2007 to 2010 for AOPS, so I think he is very well informed. The surface combatant went from $14 billion to $26 billion to $56 billion. The Parliamentary Budget Officer says it could be $77 billion. At what point does the minister say we have got to slow down here and we need to go line by line to understand how this has quadrupled or gone up even more?
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Hon. Filomena Tassi
  • May/19/22 10:09:56 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, just to be clear, one price is with taxes and the other is with the exclusion of taxes. On projects of this magnitude, we have to understand and appreciate that. With respect to the procurement of projects, I have said with the national shipbuilding strategy how committed I am to this strategy. The economic benefit that this has provided for Canadians and the 18,000 jobs that it is creating or maintaining annually are extremely important. We are going to continue to support this strategy.
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Mr. Ben Lobb
  • May/19/22 10:10:31 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I have no question at all about the economic benefits. I have no question about how hard the workers work in all the shipyards. The same work is getting done around the world using the same steel and the same technology, yet Canada still pays four to five times the amount. Will the minister look into this and find out how this can be?
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Hon. Filomena Tassi
  • May/19/22 10:10:53 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, what I would say with respect to that question is that shipyards around the world are experiencing the impacts of COVID-19 and, as I have said, there are labour shortages and supply chain issues. There are a number of issues that have added to the complexity here.
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Mr. Ben Lobb
  • May/19/22 10:11:14 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, that is fine. She also mentioned tax. There is not $40 billion worth of tax on a $14-billion project, unless taxes are really being hiked in the future. Another one is the offshore oceanic vessel. The original price tag was $100 million, and now it is $1 billion. How do we have a ten bagger on a project? That seems like mismanagement. The other question is this: Will she open the books to the Parliamentary Budget Officer so he can go through them? He had to use U.S. numbers to come to his conclusion of $77 billion.
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Hon. Filomena Tassi
  • May/19/22 10:11:53 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, we are transparent on contracts. We are open and transparent on those contracts, and those numbers are available.
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Mr. Ben Lobb
  • May/19/22 10:12:03 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, if one comes to committee, they will find out the Parliamentary Budget Officer did not have that much help and he did not really feel like it was transparent. He said that in his statements. One other question I have is about ArriveCAN. How much did ArriveCAN cost the taxpayers of Canada, from the concept to the product being used today? How much did ArriveCAN cost?
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Hon. Filomena Tassi
  • May/19/22 10:12:28 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, that is with CBSA, not procurement.
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Mr. Ben Lobb
  • May/19/22 10:12:34 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, is the procurement minister saying that her department had nothing to do with procuring the ArriveCAN app?
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Hon. Filomena Tassi
  • May/19/22 10:12:42 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, not with respect to the app. There may be services that have been related, but not with respect to the actual app.
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Mr. Ben Lobb
  • May/19/22 10:12:53 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, we definitely need some further investigation on it. On COVID vaccines, Moderna was originally pegged at 35 million doses per year. It is now 25 million doses for 2022. It went from 35 million to 25 million. Why was there a decrease of 10 million doses?
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Hon. Filomena Tassi
  • May/19/22 10:13:16 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, what I would say to that is that in 2021 there were 35 million doses and in 2022 there were 20 million doses.
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Mr. Ben Lobb
  • May/19/22 10:13:34 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it is on her website. That is where I got it from. There is a footnote there. Pfizer is also projected to be 65 million doses a year. Therefore, 25 million doses plus 65 million doses is 90 million doses. How much will those 90 million doses cost the Canadian taxpayer this year?
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Hon. Filomena Tassi
  • May/19/22 10:13:54 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I have a couple of things I will say to that. The first is with respect to doses. We do have arrangements with the suppliers that if we need to push doses further back, we are able to do that. The second thing, with respect to the cost, is to say the health and safety of Canadians was our top priority. We procured over 100 million doses, and every Canadian has the eligibility to have a full complement because of the strong procurement.
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Mr. Ben Lobb
  • May/19/22 10:14:22 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, we were talking about transparency tonight. I asked a simple question. How much does it cost to procure 90 million doses for 2022? It should be pretty easy to answer.
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Hon. Filomena Tassi
  • May/19/22 10:14:36 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, we cannot disclose the details of the contract, but we can say that the overall cost is $9 billion.
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Mr. Ben Lobb
  • May/19/22 10:14:46 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, on April 29, the minister appeared before committee and did a fine job, I will admit. I asked her a question about the Prime Minister's $750,000 kitchen renovation at Harrington Lake and she said she would get back to me. I wonder if she has had time to look it up and figure out what comes with the $750,000 kitchen renovation.
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Hon. Filomena Tassi
  • May/19/22 10:15:09 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, what I would say is I am happy to have my team get back to the hon. member with respect to the details. In the official residence portfolio, which is the six official residences and 49 ancillary buildings, 62% are in poor or critical condition. This is an area on which we have to act, but of course it is the NCC that oversees the operation and maintenance of those buildings.
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