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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 77

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 30, 2022 11:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 77 - May/30/22
Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 8:50:21 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would like to mention the fish harvester benefit that was made available by our government when there were concerns due to COVID that the fishers may not be able to go out and earn their living on the oceans. Close to $150 million was paid out to fish harvesters who were self-employed and did not have access to other benefits. In a situation like that, we stood up a program very quickly, and I know that fish harvesters appreciated that. When there are reductions in stock and—
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The Deputy Chair
  • May/30/22 8:51:01 p.m.
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The hon. member for Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix.
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Mrs. Caroline Desbiens
  • May/30/22 8:51:07 p.m.
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Madam Chair, at a parliamentary committee at the National Assembly of Quebec, Quebec's department of agriculture, fisheries and food revealed that DFO and its minister did not notify the Quebec government before suspending the mackerel and herring fishery, even though they are supposed to. We in Quebec would like to know why.
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 8:51:30 p.m.
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Madam Chair, we discussed this at the Atlantic Mackerel Advisory Committee with all the partners involved in the file.
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Mrs. Caroline Desbiens
  • May/30/22 8:51:49 p.m.
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Madam Chair, we will stick to small fish. It will do me good to speak about something other than capelin, but I will come back to that. What statistics did the department use to make its decision to suspend mackerel and herring fishing? Does the department have data from fishers outside Quebec? The fishers in the pelagic fishery in Gaspé say they are pretty much the only ones to report their catches. What does the minister think of the fishers' statement?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 8:52:44 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would like to say that I understand just how difficult the fishers' job is. I worked outdoors as a tree planter year after year, come rain or come snow. I understand very well just how difficult the work is, and I always think of those who do this incredibly difficult but important work.
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Mrs. Caroline Desbiens
  • May/30/22 8:53:20 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will repeat my question. What data did the DFO use to make this decision? Did they use the figures provided by fishers in the Gaspé pelagic fishery, who stated that they are the only ones to report their catches? Did the department use those figures when it decided to close the fishery this year?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 8:53:46 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the decision was based on research conducted by the department.
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Mrs. Caroline Desbiens
  • May/30/22 8:53:56 p.m.
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Madam Chair, what are the minister's thoughts on the public statement by her colleague, the Minister of National Revenue and member for Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine, who, on April 12, told a local Gaspé media outlet I will not name that she condemned the closure, which she even called unacceptable? Who is right: the minister or her colleague from Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 8:54:19 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I just want to say I too feel that disappointment when I have to close a fishery, but it is for the long-term good of fishers, communities and fish stocks.
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Mrs. Caroline Desbiens
  • May/30/22 8:54:34 p.m.
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Madam Chair, does Fisheries and Oceans Canada's science branch include sociologists and economists who participate in the decision-making process?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 8:54:49 p.m.
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Madam Chair, yes, several experts discussed these decisions.
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Mrs. Caroline Desbiens
  • May/30/22 8:54:56 p.m.
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Madam Chair, are they sociologists, economists or essentially scientists who are more specialized in biodiversity?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 8:55:06 p.m.
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Madam Chair, there is a wide range of experts and it depends on the situation, the fish stocks and what data needs to be collected.
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Mrs. Caroline Desbiens
  • May/30/22 8:55:23 p.m.
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Madam Chair, in closing on this subject, what can the fishers hope for as they listen to us today from the Gaspé knowing they have no more work? Given that the fishers who depend on the herring and mackerel fisheries will have nothing to eat tomorrow, what can they hope for from the minister and her department as we speak in the House right now?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 8:55:50 p.m.
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Madam Chair, we have Service Canada programs and the provinces have programs to help people who are facing hardship. We will always try to create opportunities for fishers, but we cannot do that—
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The Deputy Chair
  • May/30/22 8:56:15 p.m.
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The hon. member.
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Mrs. Caroline Desbiens
  • May/30/22 8:56:18 p.m.
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Madam Chair, what role does local knowledge play in the decisions made by Fisheries and Oceans Canada? Is there a place in all this for the local people, the fishers, their views and their observations? They are the ones out there doing the work. What role does the minister think this local knowledge plays?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 8:56:40 p.m.
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Madam Chair, we have advisory committees for each fishery, and we always listen to fishers and people who have information about the fisheries.
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Mrs. Caroline Desbiens
  • May/30/22 8:57:01 p.m.
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Madam Chair, my last question has to do with capelin. I had to intervene seven times. I had to reach out seven times to make the department listen to two small-scale capelin weir fishers and understand that they were not negatively affecting the resource, even though the fishers themselves had sent numerous letters and emails without ever receiving a response. Their MP had to intervene seven times to get the suspension lifted at the end of the month. Can the minister explain why the department is not doing more to listen to people on the ground when it matters?
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