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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 77

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 30, 2022 11:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 77 - May/30/22
Mr. Bob Zimmer
  • May/30/22 9:30:49 p.m.
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Madam Chair, who specifically in the fishing community did the minister meet with?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 9:30:52 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I am happy to get the member a record of the several meetings I have had.
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Mr. Bob Zimmer
  • May/30/22 9:30:57 p.m.
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Madam Chair, if the minister had actually met with the fishing community, one would think it would be first-hand. It is easy to remember the fishing community. Believe me, I know a lot of them in B.C., and they are certainly unforgettable. A study funded by the minister's own department recently found that the numbers of chinook salmon in the Salish Sea during the summertime are four to six times more abundant for southern resident killer whales than in northern resident whales' feeding grounds. A lack of prey for southern resident killer whales has been used by the minister's predecessor as the reason for shutting down our public fisheries. This has now been clearly debunked. When will the minister's department start making science-based decisions when it comes to keeping our public fishery open?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 9:31:42 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I have a lot of admiration and respect for the recreational fishery industry. I know it is a huge economic driver as well. Fundamentally, we need to respect the science of the salmon stocks, and that is what we are doing.
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Mr. Bob Zimmer
  • May/30/22 9:32:01 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the minister's recent decision to reject the sport fishing advisory board's chinook salmon retention proposals is again a broken promise. Why is the minister refusing to work with our public fishery community to ensure science-based decisions are made?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 9:32:19 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, when I met with Owen Bird and his colleagues, I was very interested in their proposal. Unfortunately, it would mean opening an integrated fisheries management plan, which would have meant consultation broadly before I could do so.
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Mr. Bob Zimmer
  • May/30/22 9:32:36 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, let me get this straight. You were actually given scientific advice that you could manage—
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The Chair
  • May/30/22 9:32:45 p.m.
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The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.
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Mr. Mark Gerretsen
  • May/30/22 9:32:48 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I recognize that you are just sitting in the chair as of now, but both this Conservative member and the previous Conservative member have used the term “you” numerous times, and the member just said it again. Perhaps they need a time out to go back and rewrite their notes or something, because they keep reading the term and the phrase “you”. Perhaps you could stress to them that they are to speak through the Chair to you because I doubt that they are asking all of this of you, Mr. Chair.
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The Chair
  • May/30/22 9:33:16 p.m.
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I thank you for the intervention and I appreciate that. I will remind folks here tonight to refer questions through the Chair and make sure that we do not address people directly. The hon. member for Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies.
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Mr. Bob Zimmer
  • May/30/22 9:33:32 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, through the Chair, why did the minister reject the sport fishing advisory board's two very modest chinook salmon retention proposals for portions of PFMA 17, 18, 19, southeast Vancouver Island and 28, Howe Sound, for the months of April and May? Why?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 9:33:54 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, one primary reason is that to change an integrated fisheries management plan that has had many stakeholders involved, I would have needed to consult with all of them again, and there was not time to do that for opening in April and May.
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Mr. Bob Zimmer
  • May/30/22 9:34:10 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, in a letter to the minister dated May 10, the Public Fishery Alliance stated, “We have never before experienced this level of Departmental inertia and unwillingness to resolve fundamentally basic fisheries management issues.” What is the minister doing to address this?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 9:34:30 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I reject the premise of that question, actually. The department has used a very thoughtful approach in gathering information from many stakeholders to propose decisions to me.
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Mr. Bob Zimmer
  • May/30/22 9:34:42 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, for years I have heard from our public fishery experts in British Columbia, who say their efforts to consult with DFO and provide reasonable solutions for the fishery are being stonewalled by Pacific regional director Rebecca Reid and senior staff. Who ultimately makes the decisions for the Pacific region, the minister or Rebecca Reid?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 9:35:02 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, most fisheries management decisions come to me to make, and I make them as the minister.
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Mr. Bob Zimmer
  • May/30/22 9:35:10 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it seems as though the minister's staff are the ones who are running the show at DFO. At the same time that the minister told me personally that she was considering proposals, the DFO salmon team openly stated they would not discuss any proposals from the sport fishing advisory board related to chinook retention in April and May of 2022. Again, who is in charge of DFO, the minister or Rebecca Reid?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 9:35:37 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, actually I have already explained that opening a fishery plan midstream means re-consulting with all of the stakeholders, and there simply was not time to do that in the time available to open it in April and May.
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Mr. Bob Zimmer
  • May/30/22 9:35:56 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, with respect, that is exactly the minister's job. It is to manage the fishery, and she simply is not doing that. In July 2020, the minister's predecessor, Minister Jordan, committed Canada to the United Kingdom's global ocean alliance agenda to zone 30% of Canada's coastal waters as “protected” by 2030. This is in addition to the existing government commitment to zone 25% of Canada's waters by 2025 and the extension into terrestrial public lands. The proponents of this European agenda advocate elimination of all extractive use of these regions, including recreational and commercial fishing. What is the minister's plan to conduct a transparent science-based process that includes regional and national stakeholder interests before declaring vast areas of public waters off limits to public access?
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Hon. Joyce Murray
  • May/30/22 9:36:53 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the marine protected areas prevent certain industrial activities that affect the seabed floor. Otherwise, there are no constraints that have already been defined in the negotiated MPAs that we are involved with.
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