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May/31/22 11:25:27 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, as I noted in my speech, we have to look further downstream to how we attract those individuals into education and how we then ensure those people have equal opportunity when it comes to jobs, which means breaking down those barriers. I know we can all agree that any Canadian who has the opportunity and the education has the merit and the ability to get themselves into a position they want. As I mentioned, what I love about individualism is that all of us as Canadians have the ability, competitiveness, drive and work ethic to be able to do that. That applies to all Canadians. What has been really great, as we have seen lately, is that there are women, for instance, who are breaking down those barriers and there are people of different ethnic backgrounds breaking down those barriers. We are seeing it happen. We just have to ensure that with those barriers that exist, whatever they may be, we have honest discussions and speak about them, break them down and ensure everyone has equal opportunity to achieve what they want to achieve.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

May/31/22 11:26:39 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member made reference to research chairs from UBC, where he said that more than 50% are now female. If that is the case, it kind of sets the example and proves that as a society we need to do what we can to ensure there is a higher sense of equality and fairness. Actions need to be taken in order to encourage that to take place. As an example, I would just look in the front benches of government, where 50% of cabinet is female. It is a specific action. When we see wider participation, whether it is females, visible minorities or people with disabilities, it does inspire others to take on that larger role. In particular, I am focusing on young people. Could the member provide his thoughts on that?

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Mr. Ryan Williams

May/31/22 11:27:44 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the difference between women who have earned their places and women being appointed to their places is paramount. Women I have spoken to take offence at the fact that they have to be appointed in order to make it to a position rather than earning their place as they should, and they do. The difference is that we are jumping a couple of steps on that. Eliminating barriers allows women or anyone with an ethnic diversity to get through that barrier in order to earn their own place on the podium. However, we jump that and say we know there are barriers but we are just going to appoint someone anyhow. We eliminate the systemic problems that exist in the first place. UBC, which appointed 60 positions, put out a target ad, meaning it posted a job for women only to apply. The problem when that is done and a quota is filled is that the next ad would say that only people with disabilities could apply and women are excluded. We cannot exclude them in order to get others ahead. What we need to do is break the barriers down, to your point, so we have more women who want to enter politics who can and are able to then do it on their own merit, because we know—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/31/22 11:28:58 a.m.
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Just a reminder to the hon. member that I did not make any point. The hon. member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith has the floor.

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Ms. Lisa Marie Barron (Nanaimo—Ladysmith, NDP)

May/31/22 11:29:04 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, if I can speak frankly, I am very disheartened that this is a debate we are having today. Quite frankly, I am feeling that many of the comments in the previous intervention were insulting to many. I am standing here today and want to express that there is a big difference between equity and equality, and it is clear that concept is not being understood. We have so many systems that were built by white men, for white men. To say that we should not be providing equitable opportunities and looking at these systems to ensure that everybody has access to these systems is clearly inaccurate. I ask the member to please take a moment to look at the Conservative Party and share today whether this theory of equality is working well with the Conservative Party, which currently has only 18% representation of women within the caucus. Clearly, this shows the evidence we need that this equality theory being proposed today is not effective in ensuring equitable access for everyone to these systems made by white men.

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Mr. Ryan Williams

May/31/22 11:30:37 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am a little confused about the comments. As for equality of opportunity for everyone, I think everyone in Canada would like that. She talks about the Conservative Party. We have members from all different sects of this country. We had the first female prime minister in the country: the only female prime minister in the country. We have members who represent our gay community, who are ethnic and who have different backgrounds. It is not about us. It is about Canadians as a whole having equal opportunity. I have a daughter who is four years old. I think, for all our daughters and for anyone across the country, all we ask for is equal opportunity for those children to get an education, to ensure they are included and inclusive and to ensure they have an opportunity to work hard and achieve what they want to achieve. We look at barriers in our institutional systems and in our schools and our communities themselves. I think what we are all saying here is that, when it comes to funding, funding should follow exactly what we are practising in Canada. What we are trying to strive for is that everyone should have the same opportunity as everyone else. Those who work hard and achieve that and get to this place, or others, have done it of their own accord and not because someone else told them to do it. It is because they did it. I think that is really important.

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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

May/31/22 11:32:00 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think it is unappreciated by some in this place that the barriers to entry for women are quite significant and that they will not be broken down unless the first step is to ensure what used to be called affirmative action. That is just recognizing women like me, who are women of privilege by the colour of our skin. If we are going to also want to ensure diversity, inclusion and equity, we need to do more. I am reminded of one of the really good things that the Prime Minister did, which was to appoint a gender-equal, balanced cabinet. I vividly recall listening to conservative media commentators. By conservative, I do not mean capital-C conservative: that was not a partisan comment. They were on the national news saying, “Oh, are we now going to have less qualified cabinet members because the Prime Minister is forced to find 50% of them as women?” It was so insulting, but it was so ingrained that the cabinet ministers in this country, the members of Parliament, are all supposed to be white men, and they were from 1867 until Agnes Macphail was elected.

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Mr. Ryan Williams

May/31/22 11:33:21 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am not going to take a lot of lessons from this leader, considering how the last leader of the Green Party was treated. Some hon. members: By you. Mr. Ryan Williams: At the end of the day, we have to look at breaking barriers down—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/31/22 11:33:40 a.m.
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The member for Saanich—Gulf Islands is rising on a point of order.

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Ms. Elizabeth May

May/31/22 11:33:41 a.m.
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The heckling that I just experienced was a personal attack to my personal integrity, and I take personal offence. I ask the hon. member to withdraw those remarks, because they are untrue, unfounded and based on malicious gossip. He should be ashamed.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/31/22 11:33:55 a.m.
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In particular, partisan issues are not the business of the House and should not be dealt with by the House. I would like the hon. member to please address the hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

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Mr. Ryan Williams

May/31/22 11:34:05 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her comment but, at the end of the day, I do not understand. We are talking about equality of opportunity and especially about breaking down barriers. Would the hon. member rather have been appointed to the position she holds in the Parliament instead of earning it, as she rightfully has done? At the end of the day, when we talk to women and to people across Canada, should they have to be appointed in order to break down barriers? Can they not break them down of their own accord? Equality of opportunity means that we break the barriers down so that those individuals can do just that. That is all we are talking about.

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP)

May/31/22 11:34:46 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to start by saying that I will be sharing my time with my amazing colleague, the member for Nunavut. I am eager to hear what she has to say. I would like to point out that we are currently, here in Ottawa, on Algonquin territory. Personally, as a member for Montreal, I represent a territory that was never ceded by the Kanyen'kehà:ka, a place for the nations to gather and exchange. I think that it is important to point this out, especially given the nature of today’s debate. I am not particularly surprised to hear the Conservatives speak of unbridled individualism and individual responsibility. I am a little surprised, however, to hear my colleagues in the Bloc Québécois following the same line. That is a symptom of a conservative shift in the Bloc that has been happening for years but is coming to the fore once again. We can see it in today’s motion. However, intellectually speaking, the motion raises some interesting questions. These are questions concerning equity, sociology, social determinants, systemic racism, the representation of diversity in our institutions and the fact that our public and private institutions should be a reflection of our society, a society that is as open, diverse and inclusive as possible. We need to work on that. I think we need to think about that. These are important subjects and issues. Did this warrant an opposition day and a full day of debate? That is a good question. That being said, the choice was the Bloc Québécois’s. I would like to put things in context. After devoting an entire day of parliamentary work to the prayer in the House of Commons, the Bloc now introduces a motion whose main issue is that some white males will not have access to positions in federal research centres. That is the biggest problem for them. That is the Bloc’s priority. That is what we are talking about today. It is frustrating that these white males are facing restricted access to positions where they have been the overwhelming majority for decades. We are experiencing a housing shortage; some people cannot pay their rent; others have not received an employment insurance cheque for three or four months; still others want to regularize their status but are in the dark because the wait times for immigration are interminable; people are unable to get a passport; we are in the middle of a climate crisis and a climate emergency; we are being told to expect a hot summer with forest fires, floods and violent storms. However, let us talk about the poor white males who may not have access to certain positions, when they have occupied 65%, 70% or 80% of these positions for years. A minimum of effort is being put in to facilitate access to these positions for women, indigenous peoples, visible minorities and persons living with disabilities. Apparently, that is unfair and discriminatory. It is called affirmative action, with a view to effecting a social change that will not happen on its own for historical, sociological and societal harmony reasons. I could give several examples, since we still have to deal with sexism, we still have to deal with systemic racism, and we still have to deal with discrimination and prejudice against immigrants and first nations. That does not count, because we live in a meritocracy. Each individual is responsible for their own success or failure, and that is it. It is that simple. Now there is an intellectual shortcut if I have ever seen one. I will use the percentage of women in this Parliament, in the House of Commons, as an example. In 2011, when I arrived here, 24% of members were women. That figure was 26% in 2015, 29% in 2019, and 30% last year. On average, the percentage of women in parliament in a democratic G7 country increases by 1.5% to 2% a year. At this rate, our Parliament will have achieved equity in 40 years. My daughter Marianne will be retired when Parliament achieves gender equity. Without serious incentives and sometimes even coercive measures, it will never happen. We could also look at unemployment rates. In January 2021, unemployment among Black people in Quebec stood at 13%, which is 70% higher than the Quebec average. The Black community has more university graduates but an employment rate that is 5% lower than the average rate, and they earn $4 an hour less than white people. In February 2021, one month later, the unemployment rate in Canada increased by 0.6%. That same month, the unemployment rate increased by 4.5% for Latin Americans, 5.5% for the Black community and 7.6% for Southeast Asians. They have higher unemployment rates, earn less and have greater difficulty finding a place to live, even though they are better trained and educated than the average Canadian. If this is not proof of systemic racism and barriers that must be broken, I do not know what is. At Laval University it was an awful scandal that women make up 38% of professors, or below 40%. This figure is 6% for members of visible minorities. Fully 13% of Quebeckers are members of a visible minority. That represents one million people. That is halfway to the target. Persons with disabilities represent 1% of professors at Laval University. As far as research chairs in general are concerned, the numbers are practically the same if we look at the average of federal research chairs. Women represent 34%, even less than at Laval University, and members of visible minorities 6%. The number of persons with disabilities or members of first nations is so low that it cannot be counted. The numbers are not available. Then I am told that we should not have measures to increase these shameful percentages by giving a chance to someone who does not have the same opportunities in life when it comes to filling a researcher or professor position. Affirmative action measures work, as we have seen in many countries, such as the United States, where such measures were absolutely necessary. I know that “affirmative action” is sometimes translated in French as “discrimination positive”, or “positive discrimination”. Some people find that amusing and say that you cannot fix discrimination by adding discrimination. That is a bad joke that comes from a narrow, short-sighted perspective. Éric Duhaime, the new leader of the Conservative Party of Quebec, was the first to say this in 2019. That is the very perspective that the Bloc Québécois is embracing here. Bravo. As a way forward, this is just appalling. We could be talking about any number of things that could be done to help people, but instead you move a motion that will actually hurt people.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/31/22 11:43:32 a.m.
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I would remind the member that it is not my motion, but rather a Bloc Québécois motion.

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice

May/31/22 11:43:40 a.m.
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I apologize, Madam Speaker. We need to do some collective soul-searching. Why is it that women make up only 20% of corporate boards and only 25% of senior management in Canada? According to an Osler report, a university professor looked at 2,000 senior management positions in Canada. Of the 2,000, he found seven indigenous people and six people with disabilities. That is it. Among senior managers, women's salaries are 56% lower than men's. Visible minority women earn 32% less than white women. That is huge. The gaps are enormous. It makes perfect sense to try to do something to fix this and ensure that women, indigenous people, members of visible minorities and people with disabilities take their rightful place within our institutions, including universities.

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Mr. Jean-Denis Garon (Mirabel, BQ)

May/31/22 11:44:48 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I do not have a question for my colleague since I doubt that he will answer it. I simply want to inform him that when he throws out statistics, within faculties, for example, he is referring to professors who might have been hired in 1987, 1988 or 1989, and not just ones who were hired recently. I am a university professor, so I am part of the academic community. It worries me that there are some members in the House who cannot count. I wanted to point that out.

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice

May/31/22 11:45:15 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his pleasant question. I need only give him the Université de Moncton as an example, where the majority of students have been women for years now. We learned recently that in the Université de Moncton's faculty of science, women make up barely 15% of the faculty.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

May/31/22 11:45:39 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate the comments from the member. What I think of here is that there has to be a will to see the changes we want to see for society to evolve. In many ways, we see very progressive-minded people taking policy initiatives that will in fact achieve, hopefully sooner as opposed to later, a wider participation in our chairs so that they do incorporate minorities, whether they be women, people with disabilities or ethnic minorities. It is important for society as a whole that these chairs reflect the Canadian population, ultimately. I wonder if the member can provide his thoughts on how important it is to have the will to see that take place.

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice

May/31/22 11:46:38 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, indeed, I do think that progressive movements have always worked to achieve equity and equality. Sometimes that requires restrictive measures. That is okay, because what I am hearing from the Conservative Party and the Bloc right now makes me think of Margaret Thatcher when she said: There is no society; there are only individuals. However, that is not how it works. I feel that, as parliamentarians and elected officials, we have to take responsibility and foster meaningful action that moves society forward for all Canadians, making it possible to achieve better representation of our diversity.

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Mr. Taylor Bachrach (Skeena—Bulkley Valley, NDP)

May/31/22 11:47:19 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to pick up on a theme we heard from a previous speaker about this apparent distinction between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome. I cannot think of how we can define progress if we do not look at outcomes. I think that often equality of opportunity is used as an excuse for not doing anything. I wonder if my colleague can think of any institutions in Canadian society that have achieved diversity that is reflective of the population without proactive equity measures.

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