44th Parl. 1st Sess.
October 6, 2022 10:00AM
- Oct/6/22 5:19:57 p.m.
- Watch
Questions and comments, the hon. member for Trois-Rivières.
11 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- Oct/6/22 5:20:02 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I am happy to see my colleague defend his constituents in Saskatchewan so passionately.
I have been listening to this debate. Like the member, the Bloc Québécois will support the motion. However, there is one thing I would like to know.
Other than the carbon tax reduction, which seems to be a big deal here, are there other measures that could apply and that would help Quebeckers?
73 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- Oct/6/22 5:20:30 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, there are quite a few. Quebec has a strong agricultural base. It has some strong marketing boards. It has some great farmers and agricultural operations. Using more local food is definitely one of the options, when we can provide it from the farmyard to the grocery stores. That means making sure that there is shelf space for that locally grown food, and having the resources to see the manufacturing of our food products here in Canada or in Quebec instead of chasing them out of Canada because we have made it too expensive to do that production here.
What are we going to do? We are going to export the grain and all the resources to make the product and then we are going to import it back into Canada and buy it at retail. Does that make sense? That is the policy we are facing right now with the current Liberal government.
155 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- Oct/6/22 5:21:17 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I am going to reflect on the loss of the wheat board and its unintended consequences, such as the failure to organize grain shipments properly, which is causing the long delays that have been very difficult for grain farmers, and the fact that the residual assets of the wheat board are now owned by Saudi Arabia.
For my constituents in Saanich—Gulf Islands, the inefficiencies in delivering grain to the Port of Vancouver are leading to anchorages, which is basically free parking, in my riding while the freighters that come to pick up the grain are cooling their heels waiting because of the inefficiencies created by the loss of the wheat board, which is hurting farmers, shippers and those who need the grain delivered.
127 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- Oct/6/22 5:22:04 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, again, it shows why there are no Green members elected in Saskatchewan, because they are not in touch with the agriculture community in Saskatchewan.
If the member is concerned about what is going on in the Port of Vancouver, I am too. When they are ranked second last out of 400 as a port for Canada, that tells us they have had bad policies and are not putting the infrastructure in place that is required for Canadian shippers, and the member is paying for it in her riding. There is no question about it.
If the government had actually put in the processes, had actually modernized the ports and spent the money in an appropriate manner, made it capable of taking on the next generation of ships that might be hydrogen-based, if it would do things like that, then we would actually see some results, but it has done nothing and the—
156 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- Oct/6/22 5:22:42 p.m.
- Watch
Resuming debate, the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes.
15 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- Oct/6/22 5:25:37 p.m.
- Watch
It being 5:26 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question to dispose of the business of supply.
The question is on the motion. Shall I dispense?
Some hon. members: No.
[Chair read text of motion to House]
The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division, or that the motion be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.
The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.
99 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- Oct/6/22 5:25:37 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, it is an honour to be able to rise following the great comments from my colleague for Prince Albert who was able to offer an education to some members on the government benches and their coalition partners on how the policies of this government are hurting Canadians and hurting farmers.
The member raised a very interesting question about affordability and the impact of this carbon tax as it affects food prices in Canada and as it affects the affordability crisis that Canadians are facing. The cost of this Liberal government is driving up the cost of living for all Canadians and at a time of year when demands on food banks are particularly high in a regular year. We are seeing, real time, the effects that the inflationary crisis, the made-in-Canada Liberal inflationary crisis, has on our food banks, which is that they do not have enough food to support the people who are there looking for their help. I will take a quick second to say to anyone who is watching and is able, who maybe has put off a donation to their local food bank, that now is the time to dig deep, because our neighbours, people in our communities, are hurting.
This affordability crisis is also being driven by the carbon tax, which is a tax on everything. We have heard, in recent days, what the effects are of that increase that is projected to come, the tripling of that carbon tax. It is going to raise the price on people's shelter costs. It is going to raise the prices on people's ability to clothe themselves. It is going to raise the prices on people's ability to feed themselves.
We know that when the input costs go up that it is going to raise the prices all the way from farm to table. I know that some members might be surprised to learn that food does not originate in the stockroom at the grocery store. It comes from Canadian farms.
We need to get serious about tackling this inflationary crisis, get serious about bringing down the food costs that Canadians are dealing with. The best way and the immediate way we can do that is for this government to commit to Canadians that it is not going to triple the taxes on Canadians.
393 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- Oct/6/22 5:28:06 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, this is an important issue. Canadians need to know how MPs stand and that vote will be taken after the Thanksgiving break, so I would ask for a recorded division.
32 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- Oct/6/22 5:28:25 p.m.
- Watch
Pursuant to order made on Thursday, June 23, the recorded division stands deferred until Monday, October 17, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.
The hon. deputy House leader is rising on a point of order.
41 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- Oct/6/22 5:28:43 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I am sure that if you canvass the House, you will find consent to see the clock at the time for the beginning of Private Members' Business.
29 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- Oct/6/22 5:28:54 p.m.
- Watch
Does the hon. member have unanimous consent?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): It being 5:41 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of Private Members' Business as listed on today's Order Paper.
43 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
moved that Bill C-294, An Act to amend the Copyright Act (interoperability), be read the second time and referred to a committee.
He said: Madam Speaker, it is a great honour to rise in the House today and speak to my first-ever Private Member's Bill, Bill C-294, an act to amend the Copyright Act as it relates to interoperability.
It has also been unofficially called the “unlocking innovation act”. The pathway for putting together this bill began in the winter of 2019-20 as the federal government was finalizing the new NAFTA deal, which is now officially known as CUSMA. For my part, it started with working on the industry committee. We were studying the legislation which would implement the new trade deal. Some of my own constituents from back home in Cypress Hills—Grasslands appeared as witnesses to give their feedback on it. They were representing Honey Bee Manufacturing, and I will say more about them in a moment.
During the meeting, while expressing their support for having a free trade agreement in place, they pointed out a threat to their industry. This is what they laid out in their opening statement:
The challenge we face is interoperability. Recently, with technical protection measures and so on, companies have started to use digital locks and keys to prevent us from allowing our equipment to interoperate with these major OEM brands. It's a form of protectionism that allows them to own and operate the entire value chain at the exclusion of independent manufacturers.
In Canada we have 1,400 manufacturers of implements that are attached to agriculture, mining, forestry or construction equipment. Of those manufacturers, 500 are for agricultural equipment. That agricultural equipment is primarily manufactured adjacent to small communities in Canada, rural communities, where the majority of that type of manufacturing takes place. It's a challenge for us to achieve the ability to continue to legally manufacture our product and sell it onto these platforms. The copyright act in the United States has provision for circumventing for the purpose of interoperation. The Canadian Copyright Act does not have this same term in the agreement.
We would like to see that ratified prior to the signing of the trade agreement so that we're not on that uneven footing that prevents us from competing legally in the marketplace here and abroad.
That is the main problem in a nutshell, and it is the type of challenging situation that this bill would correct. The requested change did not end up happening around the timing of CUSMA, or in the time since then, but it has brought us to today as we debate this bill. Bill C-294 seeks to move ahead with a change to the Copyright Act that would help to put interoperability back in its rightful place in the Canadian marketplace.
This is the right thing to do on a number of fronts, because interoperability means support for innovation, consumer choice and protection, competitive markets, small business and job creation. Before explaining in a little more detail what it is, I am going to tell a story about why interoperability is important.
Two farmers from southwest Saskatchewan, Glen and Greg Honey, out of a desire to have a product that worked better and more efficiently on their farm, took the initiative to engineer and build a 425-horsepower tractor. They then went on to make a self-propelled swather, as well as the grain belt header that has become the standard in the marketplace for how headers are built.
As farm implements and attachments, it was easy to use them with something else, such as a tractor or a combine, which they would have already had. At that time, interoperability was generally open and achievable because of the simplified nature of the equipment. All one needed was a common hydraulic hose connection and a PTO shaft, and they would be ready to go. It did not stop there.
As local farmers around the area began to see the equipment the Honeys were using on their farm, they began to want the same kind of swather and header as well. Over the course of a decade, they eventually moved their new manufacturing outfit from their farm to the town of Frontier.
There they were able to set up in the shop in the space vacated by Flexi-Coil when they bought out Friggstad Manufacturing, another family-owned and operated farm equipment manufacturer in Frontier. Friggstad had a similar operation that had built a superior product of its own. However, it was a victim of rapid inflation and market instability in the 1980s which unfortunately put it in receivership. It was eventually bought out by the bigger competition. The sale of Friggstad Manufacturing to Flexi-Coil was devastating to the community because they moved the operation up to Saskatoon, cutting the population of the town almost in half, from over 500 people down to around 300.
However, the move into town in 1987 by the Honey brothers became a new opportunity for the community, and soon Honey Bee Manufacturing became the largest source of employment for the region. They created a future for the community once again. It really shows how crucial and how much of a difference these short-line manufacturers can make in rural communities when they are in business and are allowed to succeed. The success story of Honey Bee is not unique just to Frontier. There are hundreds of companies across the Prairies and this country that share a similar success story of innovation that was born out a need to create either a better product or a new one altogether.
Whether it is a company such as Schulte in Englefeld, Bourgault in St. Brieux or Väderstad north of Langbank, these are companies in Saskatchewan who are driving innovation in their industry. While doing it, they are making an absolutely essential contribution to the livelihoods and the social fabric of our small communities and rural area.
Sadly, Honey Bee Manufacturing's level of early success 40 years ago would likely not be possible right now. This innovative industry has long been losing ground to large companies that are pushing them out of the market. It might sound hard to believe, but our copyright law seems to be helping large companies and providing them the tools to do just that, which is actually the opposite of what the Copyright Act was originally intended to do. I will offer some support for this common sense principle from a book on Canadian copyright law by David Vaver, who published it while serving as an Oxford professor of intellectual property law and a director for the Oxford Intellectual Property Research Centre.
It reads:
patents and copyrights are supposed to encourage work to be disclosed to the public and to increase society's pool of ideas and knowledge.
Keeping a broad public domain itself encourages experimentation, innovation, and competition—and ultimately the expectation of lower prices, better service, and broader public choice.
Those are the known benefits of an open and competitive market against a monopoly. Interoperability has been a key part in that for the agriculture sector as long as anyone can remember and that is what it is still doing in other areas of our lives. At a basic level, interoperability is something that is actually quite broad.
It happens whenever different devices, machines or pieces of equipment can connect and work together. There are many examples of this, including how people use simple tools or digital technology that we simply take for granted in our daily lives. It is something that we do not usually notice, and there is a good reason for that. That is because most of the time we do not actually have a problem with interoperability and there is usually not a barrier to prevent it from happening.
However, today, I am talking about where a barrier does exist and how a simple update to the Copyright Act would get us back on track for supporting innovation and consumer choice. A new barrier comes from technological protection measures, or TPMs for short. They are a legitimate tool designed to protect intellectual property, including things like movies, music or software, and they have been enforced by Canadian copyright law for over 10 years.
The bill introducing legal recognition for TPMs into the Copyright Act had this to say in its preamble:
Whereas the Government of Canada is committed to enhancing the protection of copyright works or other subject-matter, including through the recognition of technological protection measures, in a manner that promotes culture and innovation, competition and investment in the Canadian economy;
That is exactly how they should be used in line with the principles of copyright. At that time, copyright law in different parts of the world was catching up to significant changes in technology and industry. We have reached the point again where there is a critical need to do the same thing in our own time. Technology has advanced into new areas. Everything is increasingly digital. This enables new features in our homes, our vehicles and our machinery.
However, in some ways, this has also created a catch when it comes to the Copyright Act. The digital aspect of machinery means that it is operating with software to communicate as needed with a user interface or with other devices or attachments. Copyright applies to the software contained inside these products, and this has given the original manufacturers a new mechanism to control access to the entire product after it has been purchased.
This is what is happening with digital locks. If a user of the equipment wants to attach a piece of equipment to a tractor, but it was not made by the same major brand, if we keep down the path we are on, it will be locked out and will not be used. Good luck keeping customers for innovative SMEs.
The digital lock also prevents a short-line manufacturer from reverse engineering to make their products compatible in the first place, since the OEMs own the software in the machine, as per the terms and conditions that must be accepted every single time the machine is started after purchase.
Clearly, there is movement toward a monopoly, and it is partly being done in the name of copyright. While the current version of the act explicitly mentions interoperability of two computer programs as a non-violation of TPMs, the language in place does not capture what is happening right now. As it is, there is enough ambiguity to allow for some OEMs to take advantage of it and hold it over their customers and their competitors.
There is more reason to be uneasy than having a vague fear in the face of an unknown. Back in 2017, the Nintendo v. King decision came out from the Federal Court. It is one of the first decisions to apply to Canada's TPM provisions and, since then, has been cited in several other cases.
For the larger issue of interoperability, the main point is not really about how Nintendo games were used in the particulars of this case. The case set a precedent in which a piece of physical hardware was considered copyrighted material. That is how the current law has been interpreted, and it means there is one more way to stop reverse engineering for legitimate reasons.
It is easy to see this becoming a bad trend across various industries if it were left unchecked, but right now the battle line seems to be in agriculture. There is still some time to clarify the law in line with its spirit and intent, but there are already some signs of damage.
A 2021 report released by what was then called Western Economic Diversification outlines industry data for the agriculture manufacturing sector in Canada and organizes it for us to get an idea of the economic impact. It starts out by presenting a financial picture:
Nationally this sector accounts for total revenues over $4 billion with western Canada accounting for a dominant share, 65.9 percent, of Canadian agricultural equipment manufacturing. In 2018, agricultural equipment manufacturing in Western Canada contributed an estimated $2.6 billion in revenue with total salaries and wages accounting for $488 million.
For the breakdown of employment, the report found that 87% of the businesses are micro, meaning they have 1 to 4 employees, or small, with 5 to 99 employees. Regardless of their size, they are productive in their own right. The report continues, “Based on 2018 data for small and medium sized enterprises, industry averages for revenue was $996,900 with 72 percent of establishments being profitable. Financial performance data was reported for 311 businesses with an annual revenue range of $30,000 to $5 million.”
Besides showing these numbers, the report later states:
Impacts of interoperability will be affecting the industry in 2020 as one OEM’s starts restricting access to short line manufactures equipment. A survey of implement dealers has indicated a significant drop in orders of short line manufacture combine headers for the coming year and in to the future.
From table 4, dealers of agriculture equipment have indicated a reduction in intentions to purchase headers from short line manufactures base on the past five-year average. The current sales, specifically in OEM 1 mainline dealers, could see sales numbers decreasing by as much as 60 percent this year over the five-year average. A further reduction in future sales is predicted moving forward.
Again, so many of our SMEs are independent from major brands. They tend to make their own innovative pieces of equipment that are meant to connect with others produced by different companies, which are often the bigger players. If restrictions tighten on equipment users and engineers with the expanding use of digital locks, these small competitors and innovators will die out as time goes on. Everybody will lose. What has to be understood here is the nature of a rural economy and how it all works. Rural areas have small populations that are spread further apart. They cannot afford to lose the people or the jobs they have. It is nothing less than their survival that is at stake.
Section 92 of the Copyright Act mandates that it be reviewed every five years, and we have reached that designated time for reviewing it. Both Parliament and the government have been taking steps toward updating our copyright laws, and this bill is exactly in line with what needs to be done to improve it. The work has been done and the change is ready to be made.
Bill C-294 will provide a clear, limited exemption for consumers and innovators who simply wish to enable their devices or machinery to interoperate with other equipment, as they were always able to do in the past. My conversations with other members across party lines has been encouraging, and I look forward to discussing it with more of my colleagues.
This is a simple update to make sure that our Copyright Act is fair for everyone, while also making sure that it is in line with our international commitments and our international trade agreements with other countries, while in the meanwhile making sure that we are on the same level playing field as other signatories in the CUSMA deal.
I believe that as a Parliament we can work together to see this bill gets it done.
2594 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
Madam Speaker, I must say that the Bloc Québécois is very much in favour of Bill C‑294. One of the reasons we support it is that it also addresses the problem of planned obsolescence, which means that devices must constantly be updated and upgraded. We can finally break the “buy-use-toss” cycle, where scientists are asked to put all their efforts into innovating products designed to become obsolete quickly, so people have to get a new refrigerator every seven years and a new cellphone every two years, and so on. Apparently there is a light bulb in a fire station somewhere that still works after more than 100 years. This is a sign that there is a way to make things that last.
Quebec has passed legislation that takes aim at and directly prohibits the system of planned obsolescence, although the act is not yet fully in force. We welcome the fact that Bill C‑294 does not interfere with it.
Could my colleague comment on the need to explicitly tackle the “buy-use-toss” cycle that is actually preventing sustainable growth?
194 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
Madam Speaker, this bill is tackling a very specific problem, which was brought forward to me by some valuable members of the manufacturing community. This is an issue that impacts all of Canada and it is something that is going to bring about more opportunities for people to innovate
As I alluded to in the title of it, this is an act to innovate. We want to see that innovation go forward. I suppose it would address the issue that the member has brought up, making better products that will last longer, so that consumers have high-quality products that do not just break down all too easily and then they are forced to buy other things or something that they may not necessarily want because what they had was working so well.
I do think that it would address that in the long run, maybe not quite as directly head-on as the member alluded to, but I do think that this is a very positive bill and it is one that I think we should all support.
179 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
Madam Speaker, I want to thank the member opposite for bringing forward this bill. I know that we worked together on the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology last Parliament, so I am really interested to hear more about his bill.
I just wanted to know if he could elaborate a little on what the difference is between his bill and Bill C-244, which just passed in the House, in terms of right to repair. It is not clear to me as to the difference between these two pieces of legislation.
92 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
Madam Speaker, the hon. member was a great chair of the committee, so I really enjoyed working with her.
What I will say is that they both, in principle, address the Copyright Act in a very similar way but in a very different way. I have a different section of the act that is being amended and there is another exemption that is being included.
The reason for it is that, down in the United States, for example, they have a very clear exemption for interoperability. Here in Canada, we do not. What this bill is trying to do is make sure that we have the same operating field that the Americans do. It is in line with our trade deal with the European Union. We are seeing moves by other countries around the world, Australia, in particular. France, as well, is leading the conversation on this issue.
This is something with which we have an opportunity to match what other people are doing, and this bill does that with the amendment to the section of the Copyright Act.
179 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
Madam Speaker, if this bill is able to make it to committee, what does my colleague anticipate will be some of the big issues that come up from witness testimony? Does he foresee any possible improvements coming that way, or anything he can anticipate from that stage of the bill?
50 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
Madam Speaker, I think there is always the question around proprietary software. I think that will be where some of the push-back might be, but what this act clearly does is say that the exemption we are going to allow for only allows for making a product interoperate. It leaves the protection in there for the developer of proprietary software, because the usage of the act is only for that very specific purpose.
We made sure to make sure that this was focused clearly on interoperability and no further than that, because we do want that certainty there for innovators. However, in the same breath, we have to make sure that we have the ability for people to build the short line or the secondary pieces onto mainline platforms.
130 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
Madam Speaker, Bill C-294 tackles a public policy challenge of importance to Canadians. I believe that we need to do more to facilitate the interoperability of products. An interoperability-friendly environment means empowering Canadians to adapt the products they own to their needs. For example, it means giving the ability to farmers to install different add-ons to their tractors so that they can do a number of different tasks with the same piece of machinery. It also means giving Canadians the ability to render compatible their old electronic devices with new technological standards to address the accumulation of electronic waste on our planet.
Many of the current obstacles to interoperability have arisen as a result of new market dynamics created by digital technologies and the increase of embedded software in products such as smart phones, televisions and vehicles. Removing these obstacles will require a variety of measures in both federal and provincial areas of responsibility. At the federal level, there is one particular marketplace framework that comes into play when discussing interoperability, and that is the Copyright Act, which is the subject of amendments proposed in Bill C-294.
The Copyright Act, as it currently reads, represents an obstacle to the ability of Canadians to extend the life cycles of their software-enabled products protected by digital locks. The Copyright Act prohibits Canadians to circumvent digital locks protecting copyrighted content like software. An exception to this prohibition already allows the circumvention of digital locks for the purpose of interoperability, but it is limited to the making of two computer programs interoperable. Bill C-294 seeks to expand this exception to allow Canadians to also circumvent digital locks to make their software-enabled products interoperable with other devices or components. This bill will work in conjunction with my private member's bill, Bill C-244, which was just voted on, to allow Canadians an increased autonomy over their purchased goods.
Because of the complexity of copyright policies and the issues related to interoperability, it remains that an expanded interoperability exception, such as the one proposed in Bill C-294, should be carefully considered so as to prevent any unintended consequences. Without prejudging the outcome of Bill C-294, I look forward to working with my colleagues to constructively scrutinize this bill.
Last year, the government conducted a number of consultations on copyright, one of which discussed the interoperability issue. The government's consultation on a modern copyright framework for artificial intelligence and the Internet of things highlighted some of the challenges for Canadians in rendering their products protected by digital locks interoperable with other products. The comments provided by stakeholders in response to this consultation are publicly available and they will greatly assist in our work.
First, some stakeholders pointed to the importance of ensuring that exceptions allowing the circumvention of digital locks respect Canada's treaty obligations. Canada must provide legal protections for digital locks that, notably, respect the terms of the World Intellectual Property Organization's Internet treaties. Canada also needs to comply with the additional requirements to protect digital locks that have been integrated into CUSMA, the Canada-United States-Mexico Agreement, which limits our flexibility to enact new exceptions allowing for the circumvention of digital locks or to expand the existing ones.
It will thus be important to ensure that the measures proposed in Bill C-294 and their effects on the Copyright Act comply with Canada's international obligations.
Second, I urge us to consider the perspective of a broad range of stakeholders in studying Bill C-294. The diversity of views will enrich the policy debate and lead to a more effective balancing of the various interests at play. The stakeholder submissions received in response to the government's consultations attest to this diversity of views.
Particularly, manufacturers have expressed concerns that expanding the scope of exceptions allowing the circumvention of digital locks could introduce personal safety and security risks for consumers. They have also noted potential cybersecurity and privacy risks, especially for products that connect to the Internet. Moreover, copyright holders argue that expanding these exceptions would expose them to piracy of their content and potential economic losses. We need to ensure the amendment sought in Bill C-294 does not negatively impact the ability of manufacturers and copyright holders to market their products and innovate.
Despite these considerations that will need further exploration, I want to reiterate the important issue Bill C-294 brings forward to us as it seeks to remove an important barrier to the interoperability of products. I look forward to continued discussions on this important matter.
769 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- menumenu
- notificationsnotifications
- home
- mailmail
- searchsearch
