SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 111 - Oct/17/22

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Oct/17/22 4:13:35 p.m.
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I have to interrupt the hon. member. We have a point of order from the hon. member for Rivière-des-Mille-Îles.

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Rivi

Oct/17/22 4:13:47 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, with all due respect to my colleague, he is completely off topic. We are talking about financial assistance for persons with disabilities, but he has spent the last 10 minutes talking about medical assistance in dying, which is a totally different subject. I hope our colleague will get back on course.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Oct/17/22 4:14:04 p.m.
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I understand the hon. member's point of view, but as he knows, we do allow some latitude on how members talk about certain issues. However, I would invite the hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan to get back to the subject of Bill C-22, which we are currently debating. The hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis

Oct/17/22 4:14:25 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, I will continue to exercise the rights I am given by the House to speak about this pertinent issue, which fundamentally relates to this legislation. The government does not want to hear the many concerns raised by Canadians living with disabilities. This is critically linked to their quality of life. The structures the government has put in place are denying vital supports to Canadians who need them and pushing them toward this widening door the government has offered when it comes to facilitated suicide. Again, the minister said, “I regularly hear from families who are appalled by the fact that they take their child, potentially their older child and are offered unprovoked MAID. I think that has to stop.” Of course, the government wants to go even further. Next year in March, euthanasia for those with depression or other mental health challenges will become explicitly legal and the government is now studying euthanasia for children. In a world imagined by the current trajectory, a parent could bring a teenager suffering from depression to a counsellor and find that the teenager is being offered suicide facilitation instead of suicide prevention support. Recently, Dr. Louis Roy from the Quebec College of Physicians recommended that euthanasia be legalized for infants with certain disabilities. Imagine that someone would actually come to a parliamentary committee in Canada and recommend the killing of young children because of their disability. So much for autonomy. I hope the government would have denounced the vile views expressed by Mr. Roy, but it has not so far.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Oct/17/22 4:15:56 p.m.
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I invite the hon. member to bring us back to Bill C-22, as we are going into a totally different bill, and the hon. member has one minute left.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis

Oct/17/22 4:16:06 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, I expect better when it comes to ruling on the rules. You know that there is broad latitude. I have a 20-minute speech. I spent the first half of the speech discussing financial benefits, and I said that I would spend the second half of the speech discussing—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Oct/17/22 4:16:16 p.m.
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I will interrupt the hon. member to remind him that I was very broad in my interpretation of how the rules work, and the member had ample time to expose, precisely, the arguments he has been bringing forth. He has one minute left in his speech, and I would like to remind him to bring it back to Bill C-22. That is all I am saying. The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen

Oct/17/22 4:16:48 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, on a point of order, what I find to be extremely offensive about what just took place toward you is that the member pointed at you and said he expected better from you. That is not the way that any member of this House should treat the Chair, and not even the individual but the respect that is supposed to be shown to the Chair. I would encourage that member to apologize to the Chair.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Oct/17/22 4:17:09 p.m.
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I thank the hon. member for his care, but we in the chair know that we are subject to displeasing members. The hon. member may proceed.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis

Oct/17/22 4:17:21 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, it is very clear that members of the government, like members of the Bloc, do not want to hear about the subject that is a pressing priority for Canadians living with disabilities. They would prefer to talk about how they are introducing generic framework legislation with no particulars. They do not want to talk about the fact that they have been called out by every disability rights organization in this country for the fact that they have put in place a framework that is denying vital supports to Canadians with disabilities while widening the push, for Canadians facing disabilities, toward facilitated death. People living with disabilities have a great deal to contribute to society, and they need to be offered workplace supports alongside income supports. We also need to recognize that a person's dignity is not dependent on their circumstances, their context, their perceived productivity or their ability to contribute. Human dignity is inherent in all human beings. I will vote for Bill C-22 while maintaining extreme concern about the way the government views and treats Canadians living with disabilities, and about its apparent lack of desire to hear from parliamentarians and to hear the legitimate concerns that organizations are repeatedly raising.

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Mr. Nathaniel Erskine-Smith (Beaches—East York, Lib.)

Oct/17/22 4:18:40 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, I was going to make a joke about figures of speech and the need to educate my friend about figures of speech after reading his Twitter feed, but what I want to ask him about is specifically around the quantum that he thinks should be realized. He spoke about the vagueness of the legislation, the punting of some of the eligibility criteria and the punting of the quantum to the regulations. It is a fair criticism, and in the Old Age Security Act we do not do that as Parliament. Having said that, would the member support a submission to finance, for the coming budget cycle, that says the amount should be no less for people with disabilities of working age than it is for low-income seniors?

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Mr. Garnett Genuis

Oct/17/22 4:19:31 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, I am not prepared to name a specific number on the fly, but I do agree in principle with my colleague that it would be legitimate to submit recommendations from parliamentarians to try to provide parameters around the appropriate numbers. I think that should be done in the context of not just saying a specific number for a benefit, but prescribing how the federal benefit would interact with benefits at other levels and how it would interact with the issues I raised about the need to provide appropriate support for Canadians entering the workforce.

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Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, BQ)

Oct/17/22 4:20:15 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, I feel compelled to reiterate the comments I made earlier. I am a little annoyed, not to say appalled, that some members are using their speaking time in this House to deliver speeches that have nothing to do with the subject at hand, as my Conservative colleague just did. Talking about medical assistance in dying and access to suicide while using language like “killing children” is outrageous and pure demagoguery. I am extremely shocked by this. This is a serious bill that we in the Bloc Québécois will support. It aims to provide financial assistance to people with disabilities, and that is what my colleague should have talked about during his 20 minutes of speaking time. I find this very disturbing, and I wanted to say so.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis

Oct/17/22 4:20:53 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, I wish the member was more offended by the realities on the ground in this country and by the impact they have on the lives of Canadians with disabilities than he is by the fact that I have raised those issues in the House. He did not like the fact that I referenced killing children. Dr. Louis Roy, from the Quebec College of Physicians, gave testimony before a committee of this House in which he recommended offering euthanasia to children who are less than a year old. Maybe the member did not have a chance to see that testimony. I would encourage him to review it. I think it is highly relevant to this conversation. If the message we are giving to parents who have children with disabilities and the message we are giving to Canadians with disabilities is that we are working hard to pave this so-called easy way out, that has a great deal to do with the conversation we are having today.

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Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP)

Oct/17/22 4:21:56 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, I am going to focus on the very beginning of the member's speech when he talked a bit about the need to support people with disabilities in the workplace. I have had disability advocates, including people with lived experience, come to me and talk about how this is not only discrimination in hiring, but accommodation and accessibility in the workplace. If we want people to feel welcome in the workplace, we need to ensure that we get rid of ableist policies and that we do everything we can to accommodate people with disabilities. The House of Commons is an ableist workplace. For people with disabilities who want to run to become members of Parliament, virtual Parliament would be a huge step in ensuring that we have policies that support accommodation and accessibility. I am curious as to whether the member can respond to those comments.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis

Oct/17/22 4:22:54 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, I was with the member for most of the way. I agree that all the things she spoke about in terms of accommodations are important. The House of Commons has within its Standing Orders provisions that allow any standing order to be abrogated in order to accommodate a member with a disability, and that is important and positive. I believe there are ways to achieve that accommodation without virtual Parliament. My sense is that many members are keen on taking advantage of virtual Parliament and are Zooming in from their own offices, even on Parliament Hill. The institution can accommodate and has accommodated elected officials with disabilities outside of a virtual context. I certainly agree that accommodation is very important. Cardus's research identifies that for employers, the costs of accommodation are actually much lower than are often initially expected. That research is very important and is hopefully encouraging to employers that are considering doing more in this area.

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Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Oct/17/22 4:24:01 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, it was three weeks ago now that we had this debate on Bill C-22 in the House and heard members of all parties communicate their support for Bill C-22. In the time since, I have put forward a unanimous consent motion on that basis to move it to committee so that amendments can be proposed and we can move forward with getting this benefit to Canadians with disabilities. Can the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan speak to what he could do to get support from parliamentarians in this place to move on with getting Bill C-22 to committee?

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Mr. Garnett Genuis

Oct/17/22 4:24:37 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, this is an important opportunity to talk about how legislation is scheduled in this place. The government has most of the days and the government schedules when legislation takes place. What the government has done with Bill C-22 is scheduled it for one day of debate, and then did not schedule it for weeks and weeks. Then the Liberals wondered how come the legislation has not passed. Clearly, the legislation needs to have a certain amount of time for debate in the House. If the government had set this as a priority, and it should be a priority, it could have scheduled it for a number of days in that first week, and we could have completed second reading debate right up front. It is a bit unreasonable for the government to say that if it is going to move this bill forward, we have to agree to adopt it, even while the government fails to prioritize it among its selection of bills. I think Bill C-22 should be a priority, and I would encourage the government to prioritize it in its selection of days so we can indeed complete the debate required on the issues around it and move it forward.

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Mr. Robert Kitchen (Souris—Moose Mountain, CPC)

Oct/17/22 4:25:49 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, I appreciate my colleague's comments on the many issues he has brought up. It is interesting what I am hearing around the room. I have an earpiece that I have to use because I cannot hear. I am deaf in one ear. People do not understand this because they cannot see my disability and I do not talk about my disability. There was a big concern about that with masks during COVID. People who are disabled because of their hearing read lips, and we could not read lips when we could not hear things. We heard comments from people who said we are speaking too loudly. Well, we speak loudly because we cannot hear and understand them. The issue of invisible disabilities is extremely important to a lot of disabled people. I would like to quickly speak of a constituent who is 43 years old and has four children. He has lost the ability to raise his children. He had cochlear implants put in. His concern with this legislation is that while there are regulations, they do not tell him what he can do and how he can get back to work. I wonder if the member would mind commenting on those invisible disabilities and the ability for people to get back to work.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis

Oct/17/22 4:26:50 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-22

Madam Speaker, the member raises many important points, in particular recognizing the diversity of disabilities that exist. When we talk about disabilities, they could include many different kinds of things that in a particular social context make it harder for people to do a job that they could otherwise do. We need to recognize that not all forms of disability fit with what our expectations might be and not all forms of disability are visible. That is why this program needs to be well constructed. It needs to be versatile and it needs to encourage accommodations for people that respond to their particular circumstances. It is why we would have liked to see more details on this from the government in terms of the legislation. These are important questions we need to be asking at committee.

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