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Context: House Hansard - 114 - Oct/20/22

Oct/20/22 3:32:04 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, being a member from Newfoundland and Labrador, I am very pleased to say that I support the government's action that we not back down on climate policy. The tax is necessary to support a green economy. Climate action is essential, and carbon tax is a component of that. I work closely with the provincial government and look forward to continuing that relationship.

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Ms. Monique Pauzé (Repentigny, BQ)

Oct/20/22 3:32:41 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to acknowledge my colleague, who sits with me on the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development and for whom I have great respect. The Bloc Québécois agrees that polluters must pay and that there must be a price on pollution. However, in April, the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development wanted to determine whether this measure really targets a significant proportion of greenhouse gas emissions. He concluded that it did for individual emissions, but not for those of large emitters. Does my colleague not think that there is work to be done on that, to ensure that large emitters also pay their share?

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Ms. Joanne Thompson

Oct/20/22 3:33:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I certainly support the government's policy that a carbon tax is absolutely essential to managing the climate crisis. We have to take bold action. We will continue to address the need to bring emissions down to a level that is in line with our targets of 2030 and 2050. It is important to remember that as the rate of pollution tax increases, so does the rebate.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Oct/20/22 3:34:01 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, earlier this week, the Alberta Federation of Labour brought forward a report on what it would look like to have a just transition for workers in Alberta. The member talked a lot about the boom-and-bust economy and certainly my family, as a family that has been involved in the oil and gas sector for some time, understands the challenges of that boom-and-bust economy. However, we did not get clarification from the government this week if it would be supporting the calls of Alberta workers for a just transition for a future economy for workers. Could the member comment on that?

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Ms. Joanne Thompson

Oct/20/22 3:34:41 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am always very proud to talk about the work this government is doing to support Canadians, to support workers. There is a plan in place for a just transition, and I can speak to this from my own province. We are moving ahead to ensure that our workforce is ready to move into the reality of low-emission technology, which will power the world as we move forward. I am very pleased with the work the government is doing and I am proud of the work it is doing to support families. We will continue to be there for workers and families as we move forward.

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Mr. Jasraj Singh Hallan (Calgary Forest Lawn, CPC)

Oct/20/22 3:35:27 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to follow up on a question that my colleague, the member for Calgary Shepard, asked which the member refused to answer. Does the member stand with the Prime Minister, her leader, who is punishing her constituents and those who live in her province? Because of bad economic and energy policies, her province alone has seen a 52.8% increase in fuel oils. Otherwise does she stand with her Liberal premier, her constituents and follow what the Conservatives are trying to do to help save on home heating bills for her constituents?

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Ms. Joanne Thompson

Oct/20/22 3:36:15 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am very proud of the relationship that the federal government has maintained with the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I am very proud to say that since 2019, Newfoundland and Labrador has received $8 billion in support from the federal government. I think that speaks for itself.

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Hon. Michael Chong (Wellington—Halton Hills, CPC)

Oct/20/22 3:36:46 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Louis-Saint-Laurent. The government is completely out of touch, and I do not say that lightly. There is a crisis unfolding in rural parts of our country, in Ontario, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland, a real crisis, a crisis the government is ignoring. Here is the crisis. Ten per cent of Canadians heat their home with heating oil or with propane. That is 3.8 million Canadians. About a million and a half households in our country heat their homes during the cold Canadian winters with heating oil or with propane. That is a third of Canadians living in Atlantic Canada. That is over a million people living in the province of Ontario. They heat their homes with oil or propane, and the vast majority of them heat with oil. What many people do not realize, and what the government certainly does not realize, is that these Canadians are in dire straits. They are facing a crisis this winter. The one out of 10 Canadians who relies on heating oil or on propane is going to be bankrupted by the cost of heating his or her home this winter, and here is why. Traditionally, 90% of Canadians heat with heat other than heating oil or propane. They either use natural gas or some form of alternative. However, here is the reality for those 10% of Canadians who use heating oil or propane. For a house that is heated with natural gas, for every dollar of heat that house uses in natural gas, for that same house located in an area where there is only heating oil or propane, it costs three dollars, three times the amount, to heat with propane and it costs four dollars to heat with heating oil, or four times the amount. These figures I give to the House are before the global energy crisis that has hit global economies over the last year or so. This winter the figures now facing the 10% of our fellow citizens who heat with propane or heating oil are truly frightening and that is why this is a crisis. I went on the website yesterday of West Nova Fuels of Nova Scotia, and I will quote from its website: [O]n average a typical house with four people in it should burn about three to four tanks of oil in a year to heat your home and hot water, about 2800 litres of oil. That is now much it takes to heat a typical home in rural Ontario and rural Atlantic Canada: 2,800 litres. I went on the website of a company called Crescent Oil in rural southern Ontario that services much of rural southwestern Ontario with heating oil. Its current price for the cost of a litre of that heating oil is $2. Some areas of rural Ontario and rural Canada have even higher per-litre costs for heating oil. Canadians will understand that if they are told that number two heating oil is diesel. That is what furnace oil heating oil is. If people have driven around in Ontario in the last week or so, they will see that the price of diesel fuel is at record high levels because of shortages of distillates and other heavy crudes, and it is selling for about $2.35 a litre now in Ontario. Therefore, it is no coincidence that heating oil, which is diesel, is selling for $2 a litre. That is $2 a litre for 2,800 litres over a winter. That is $5,600 to heat a typical home in rural Ontario or rural Atlantic Canada. That is before the carbon tax and the HST. There is a carbon tax of roughly 13¢ a litre on that heating oil. There is HST not just on the base cost of the heating oil, but also on the carbon tax, so that $5,600 it is going to cost to heat one's home this winter in rural Ontario or rural Atlantic Canada actually is closer to $6,739, of which $375 is the carbon tax. The government's rebates do not cover these costs. A typical four-person family, mom, dad and two kids, living in these rural areas, heating with heating oil and driving to work in a two-income family and putting 25,000 kilometres a year on each vehicle, because there is no public transit in rural areas, which is the very nature of living in a rural area, will consume about 5,000 litres of gasoline in a year. As well, in Ontario there is an 11¢ a litre carbon tax on that gasoline. That means someone who is paying about $550 a year in carbon taxes for commuting, and add to that the $375 they have paid on their heating oil to keep their home at a minimal temperature of about 19°C or 20°C, is looking at $925 a year in carbon taxes just on commuting and heating. That is not to mention all the carbon taxes that are embedded on shipping, groceries and other costs. The climate rebate of $204.88 a quarter, for a total of $819.52, does not cover the cost. Out of the government's own admission, and we heard it from the previous member, two out of 10 households in this country do not get more back from the rebate than they pay in carbon taxes. The government is ignoring those households and ignoring the crisis facing these households. It is ignoring the astronomical skyrocketing costs it will take to keep one's house warm in rural Ontario and rural Atlantic Canada this winter. The argument that this is somehow working as part of a plan to reduce emissions to combat climate change is bunk. Here is the proof. Liberals have not met a single target. They came to office saying that they were going to meet Copenhagen. We blew through that without meeting that target. They said that they are now on track to meet Paris, which is total baloney. Emissions have been rising under the Liberal government. In 2016, the first full year the government was in office, emissions were 715 megatonnes. In 2019, the last year before the pandemic for which we have data, emissions rose to 738 megatonnes. Now, they dropped in 2020, but shutting down the economy is no way to combat climate change and reduce emissions. I will go out on a limb here. I believe that in 2022, Canada's emissions will blow through that 738 megatonne level to a record high for the government. Do not take it from me; take it from Bloomberg. I was reading the news this morning and I came across an article Bloomberg just published today entitled “[The Prime Minister] Defends Canada's Minuscule Climate Progress”, with the subheading, “A bevy of climate policies championed by Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau have not yet translated into steep pollution cuts in the country.” I want to quote from that article—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Oct/20/22 3:45:32 p.m.
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I want to remind the hon. member he is not to mention the Prime Minister or anybody else by first name or last name, even if he is quoting an article. The hon. member has one minute and 17 seconds to wrap up.

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Hon. Michael Chong

Oct/20/22 3:45:46 p.m.
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My apologies, Madam Speaker. I got caught up in the moment and I made a mistake. I withdraw that. I want to quote from this article, because it is damning. It reads: But all of Canada’s peers in the Group of Seven, or G-7, have managed to achieve economic growth while simultaneously cutting emissions, and Canada’s environmental commissioner says the country is struggling to bend the emissions curve. Among the Group of 20 major economies, or G-20, Canada ranks behind only Saudi Arabia when it comes to per capita emissions, and ahead of Australia. That is a damning indictment of how the government's climate change policies are working, including its carbon tax. I will finish by saying that this is the only government in the G7 that has raised taxes on fuel during a period of record high global energy prices. Even the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador is pleading for relief. The government needs to get in touch with Canadians and understand that 10% of this country is in dire straits facing a heating crisis this winter. It needs to do the right thing and cut the taxes on propane and heating oil.

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Mr. Adam van Koeverden (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health and to the Minister of Sport, Lib.)

Oct/20/22 3:47:08 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, before many of us ever got involved in politics, I would say that we looked to the member for Wellington—Halton Hills as a beacon of hope in the Conservative Party with respect to fighting climate change. We saw him as the only leadership contestant in a race who was willing to talk about and acknowledge climate change. He, at the time, I believe, was a proponent of carbon pricing, a strong proponent of strong action to fight climate change. Lately, the Conservatives have been telling us to cut the tax, cut the tax, cut the tax, not acknowledging that supreme courts across the country have said that it is not a tax, that it is a rebate program and it is actually helping many families who have made many adjustments to their usage of fossil fuels. Many of my constituents also use heating oil and many of my constituents also use propane. The methodology of the member opposite is not going to help fight climate change and, frankly, it is not going to help our constituents in rural Halton either. Does the hon. member still believe in fighting climate change with carbon pricing?

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Hon. Michael Chong

Oct/20/22 3:48:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, what I proposed in 2016 was, in fact, a revenue negative carbon tax. I even said at the time that I did not support this government's carbon tax quite simply because it is revenue positive. Not all of the money is returned to taxpayers. The government has used it for a plethora of programs that are not working. In fact, the government admits it itself. It says that 20% of households do not receive more back in these rebates than they pay in carbon taxes. What I proposed is nothing of the sort of what the government is proposing. Its plan is not working and the proof is in the pudding, as reputable news organizations like Bloomberg are pointing out.

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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné (Terrebonne, BQ)

Oct/20/22 3:49:09 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. He criticized the government for being out of touch. That surprised me, considering that the opposition motion would reduce the cost of heating, but not until April. We all know people do not heat their homes as much in April. This Conservative Party proposal is contradictory in many ways, and it is disappointing, frankly, because it does not elevate the debate in the House. Why does my colleague think his party moves motions that offer little in the way of solutions? So many more useful things could be done for our constituents.

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Hon. Michael Chong

Oct/20/22 3:49:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question. I disagree with her. The carbon tax already applies to petroleum products for households and consumers in Ontario and other parts of our country. The carbon tax is already in place and the figures I quoted were not for the increase that is slated to come in on April 1 of next year. They are for the carbon tax that is already in place and has been in place for a number of years that was increased on April 1 of this year. These are the costs households are facing this coming winter. We are calling on the government to provide relief to these households, as many other major economy governments have done and cut the taxes on these fuels so that households will not face either freezing in the dark this winter or potential bankruptcy.

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Ms. Bonita Zarrillo (Port Moody—Coquitlam, NDP)

Oct/20/22 3:51:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, definitely people are worried about upcoming heating bills. My question for the member is about fair taxation. Does the member believe there is a lot of work to do to close the loopholes here in Canada for the ultrarich and corporations that are making outsized profits during this pandemic?

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Hon. Michael Chong

Oct/20/22 3:51:27 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, one of the things we can do to help disparity in this country is to reduce the tax burden on the most vulnerable households, many of whom live in rural Atlantic Canada and rural Ontario, many of them in older housing stock that was built before 1980 that are facing extraordinarily high heating bills this winter. I think that would be a good place to start, and I encourage all members of the House to vote for the motion in front of us.

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Mr. Gérard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC)

Oct/20/22 3:52:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in today's debate because this directly affects Canadians. If there is one thing on the minds of every Canadian family from coast to coast to coast, from British Columbia, to Manitoba, to Quebec, to Newfoundland or the Far North, it is inflation. Unfortunately, things are not really getting better. The most recent figures show inflation hovering around 7%. That means a 7% increase in the general cost of just about everything. The area where inflation is hitting the hardest, where it is most directly and acutely affecting every Canadian family, is the cost of food. If there is one part of the budget that cannot really be cut, it is food, because it is essential. I am laughing, but I do not find it funny, because Canadian families are really struggling. According to the latest figures, food prices have risen by more than 11.4%. These are goods that are considered essential, such as cereal products, which have risen by 18%, coffee, by 16.4%, bread, a basic product, by 15%, and fresh fruit, by 13%. Even more dramatically, the price of pasta has risen by 36% and, for those who like it, peanut butter, by 42%. With a 42% increase, I doubt anyone will want to try it. The reality for all Canadians is that inflation is skyrocketing. It is important to understand that one of the things that is driving food prices up is the cost of shipping. Food does not fall from the sky. It must be transported. As we know, most products are transported by truck, and most trucks run on gas. This Liberal government's carbon tax is taking its toll. If the Liberal carbon tax were having any impact on reducing greenhouse gas emissions, we could call it a success, but that is not the case. The government has never met any of its targets for combatting or reducing greenhouse gas emissions. It is not working. It is now the end of October, and it is starting to get cold. The Canadian winter is coming. Everyone in Canada knows that we use more heat in winter. Fully 3.8 million Canadians, or one in 10, use propane or traditional fuels such as oil. This affects a lot of people. When transportation is directly involved, it impacts heating and food. That is why the government must implement good, positive and constructive measures to tackle the problem of inflation. This government is a little bit difficult to follow. Being the finance minister is no small role, yet we are increasingly seeing the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance beginning to act as the prime minister, the foreign affairs minister, the natural resources minister and the environment minister. In short, she is taking on all the roles and speaking to groups all over the world. That is how the government finds out what its new finance policy is. Even worse, the finance minister is completely contradicting the government's record. Today, she stated that her government's policies have had an impact on inflation. Unfortunately, she is right about that. It is unfortunate because we have been saying for years that the Liberal government's policies have fuelled the inflation that is now hitting Canadians. When members talk about inflation, they often say that it is affecting the whole world. However, I would point out that inflation does not happen overnight. There are situations that fuel inflation, and this government has been demonstrating that for seven years and one day. The election was seven years ago. That is when this government was elected. Let us not forget the big campaign promise that the government made about public finances in 2015. It said it would run three modest deficits and then achieve a zero deficit in 2019. What actually happened during that first term? It was three major deficits, followed by a fourth deficit. That is the track record of this government, which got elected by promising to run three small deficits and then a zero deficit. That did not happen. On the contrary, the government increased the debt by over $100 million. When the pandemic hit, the government started handing out money like drinks at an open bar. We understand that crises can occur. When we were in office in 2008, we expected that there might be deficits but that they would only be temporary. Most importantly, in the wake of the 2008, 2009 and 2010 crisis, our government implemented a plan to balance the budget, and that plan worked. The fact remains that, in 2015, we were the first G7 country to get back on our feet after the financial crisis of 2008, 2009 and 2010. We led the pack in terms of countries that weathered the crisis best. Today, we are at the back of the pack when it comes to this government's management of the public purse. The deficits the government ran because of the pandemic were to be expected, but that is not the case for the enormous deficits this government decided to rack up. It added $500 billion to the debt. Some will say that these deficits were due to the pandemic, but $200 billion of that amount was not COVID-19 related. We must therefore be wary when the Liberals say that the deficits are due to COVID-19, because that is not the case. We can do a very detailed review of all the government's measures and its out-of-control spending. The latest financial disaster is ArriveCAN, a major hassle for just about everyone in Canada on top of not producing the desired results. We want to take a close look at why so many tens of millions of dollars were spent on something that never worked and could have been developed for a fraction of the price. This government's track record includes over half a trillion dollars in accumulated debt. Of that, over $100 billion predates COVID‑19, and over $200 billion has nothing to do with COVID‑19. Now we have to deal with it. What is the government's plan to try to curb inflation or reduce its impact on Canadians? Unfortunately, it does not have one. Worse still, it refuses to temper its greedy desire to raise taxes, which is the wrong thing to do. I realize that when inflation is high and taxes are kept at the same rate, it can be very profitable for a government. As people pay higher prices, the tax is obviously higher. The amount of money that the government takes in is much higher than it would normally be. While the government is lining its pockets, Canadians are having their pockets picked because of rampant inflation and a government that refuses to cut taxes. There are two things that should be noted about this government. Personally, I like to compare myself to the best. Let us compare Canada's current Liberal government to the other G7 countries, which are the most industrialized countries, the best countries in the world. Unfortunately, the Canadian government is the only G7 government that has not cut taxes. The other six countries have done so. Even the Prime Minister's close friend, President Biden, lowered certain taxes. Every country on the planet wanted to provide relief to taxpayers. Only Canadians, who are living under the yoke of this Liberal government, are not getting any relief. Canada is the only G7 country to have raised taxes on fuel, but this is not producing the desired results, in other words lowering greenhouse gas emissions. Worse yet, it is increasing the burden on the citizens. That is the reason for today's runaway inflation, which is affecting the lives of every Canadian. When the price of traditional energy is directly affected, that directly affects the price of transportation, heating and food. These are necessities for Canadians, who live a big country and who need to eat, get around, and heat their homes. The government is maintaining the Liberal carbon tax and the planned increase on April 1, but that is not the right approach to solve the climate problems, much less to help Canadians who are dealing with the inflationary crisis that is hurting all families right now.

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Ms. Leah Taylor Roy (Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, Lib.)

Oct/20/22 4:01:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as the member opposite is talking about tax relief for Canadians, does he consider a doubling of the GST credit tax relief? If not, what is it?

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Mr. Gérard Deltell

Oct/20/22 4:02:09 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I welcome my colleague's question. The point is that when we talk about tax breaks, we talk about real tax breaks. For many weeks, if not for many months or even a full year, we have asked the government to lower the taxes in this country. It is not because we are good guys on this side of the House, but because we are actual citizens and we understand. More than that, everybody in the world is doing this. An hon. member: Oh, oh! Mr. Gérard Deltell: Madam Speaker, each and every country in the G7 has lowered taxes, except the Canadian government. Shame on them.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Oct/20/22 4:02:48 p.m.
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I want to remind the hon. member for Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill that she had an opportunity to ask a question. She does not have an opportunity to do a rebuttal, unless it is through questions and comments. The hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot.

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