SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 114 - Oct/20/22

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Oct/20/22 4:18:04 p.m.
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I would like to ask the hon. member to address questions and comments through the Chair. It is not the first time.

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Oct/20/22 4:18:08 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I do believe that we have to reduce reliance on fossil fuels for many reasons. Climate is, of course, one of them, but there is also the ups and downs in the commodity price, which has caused so much difficulty for Canadians in affording this. Certainly, we will continue to do that. We have to also look, though, at efficiency in heating homes. That is why we have the greener homes grant. We also need to look at efficiency in new buildings. As we are increasing our housing stock, we have to make sure that homes are being built with greater efficiency, so that home heating costs are not as great and we do not have to rely on propane and heating oil. Yes, I agree with the member opposite. I also know that there is a transition and while we are doing that, we have to ensure that our oil and gas sector is the cleanest in the world. Continuing to put in mechanisms during that transition is equally important.

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Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Oct/20/22 4:19:06 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to start by recognizing that the hon. member for Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill is one of the strongest voices for the environment in the governing party caucus. She was also being honest in saying that the Liberal Party has not been able to meet the climate targets that have been set so far. One of the reasons why that is the case is that there has been a continued increase in subsidies to the very sector most responsible for the crisis we are in, to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. Can she comment on what she could do to help move away from further increasing, for example, tax credits to carbon capture and storage, to the tune of $8.6 billion?

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Ms. Leah Taylor Roy

Oct/20/22 4:19:48 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member's efforts on moving forward to combat climate change as well. What I would like to say to that is that we have made a commitment to eliminate all fossil fuel subsidies and we are moving in that direction. I believe that we can do more and that we should do more to support renewable energy and to make that our primary focus. We know that fossil fuels will continue to be produced in Canada as we make the transition and that there are certain non-combustible uses that may remain. We need to make sure that we are supporting wind energy, solar and green hydrogen, and all of these other areas equally.

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Mr. Chris Bittle (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage, Lib.)

Oct/20/22 4:20:45 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to rise today to speak to this motion. I truly believe it comes from a good place in the Conservative Party. There are many members all throughout this House who are concerned about the rising cost of living, the costs our constituents face on a daily basis. I think that is where this motion comes from, this genuine concern. To all the members from the class of 2015, happy anniversary; it has been seven years. We can look back at all of the measures we have put in place on the cost of living, even starting from one of the first things we did, which was to raise taxes on the wealthiest 1% so we could cut them for everyone else. We have the Canada child benefit, $10-a-day day care, dental care and rental supports, which the Conservative Party opposes. Whenever we are there to offer tax relief, the Conservative Party has stood up and said absolutely not. We did raise taxes on the wealthiest 1%. The Conservatives raised concerns about raising taxes. We raised them on the wealthiest individuals in this country and the Conservatives voted against it. It is a little rich, at this point, that they are starting to take interest. It is great that they are taking interest in the cost of living crisis. I really hope they change their minds on the current government initiatives before us, especially dental care. Every member of this House gets subsidized dental care from the taxpayer. It is shocking to see Conservative members of the House get up and say that 30% of people do not have access to dental care and that is okay. It is shocking that they are able to stand in this place and speak about three out of 10 of their constituents and say they do not deserve dental care, but we do. The one thing that is interesting in this entire debate on the cost of living, and I have not heard a Conservative member speak to it yet, is the cost of climate change. Just in the past seven years that many members have been sitting in this place, we have seen devastating forest fires, floods in British Columbia, droughts in the Prairies and intense storms throughout Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada. There is no movement. Actually, that is probably not true. There is movement in the Conservative Party on a climate plan, but it is backwards. I was pleasantly surprised as parliamentary secretary to the minister of environment and climate change when the Conservatives brought out a price on pollution. I said this is a positive thing for the country, even though I did not agree with how they were going to implement it. It was a positive thing for the country that ever major party going into the election acknowledged that pollution is bad and we should price pollution. There has been a change to that. Every member here from the Conservative Party ran on carbon tax. It is true. We are hearing some heckles that some of them did not and I guess they took matters into their own hands under the Reform Act and dealt with the source of the carbon tax, which was the hon. member for Durham, who stood up and said Canadians wanted answers on pollution. They are worried about their kids. I am worried for my kids. I am sure members are coming from that place where they are worried about their constituents, but I do not see them worried down the road. They do not seem to be worried about the increase in storms. They talk about the rising cost of food and that is a real worry for Canadians across the country, which should be raised, but they never once link it back to climate change. There are incredible droughts in the United States and in the Prairies, or the storm in Florida and how it is going to impact citrus prices. All of these things are connected and are going to increase the costs that we see every day. How will many of the constituents they have who have experienced extreme weather be able to afford insurance on their homes if they live near a river or the ocean? We hear Conservative leaders just dismiss that. There is no vision forward. There is no look ahead to ask, “What should we be looking at for our kids and for our grandkids?” It has always hearkened back to a price on pollution. Maybe there is a better plan out there by the Conservative Party to address climate change, but there is none. There is zero plan. There was a plan; now there is none. I am sure something will come out in the future. We have seen now three elections with an unserious plan for climate change, but Canadians are genuinely concerned because they can see it with their own eyes. I talk to my constituents. It does not rain the same anymore where I live. Every member of the House can see with their own eyes how the weather is different, how trends are changing and how the cost of that is impacting our constituents in every riding of this country. However, when the members of the Conservative Party talk about the cost of living, they never mention climate change as part of it. We can forget about the fact that there is a rebate on the price on pollution. The Conservatives seem to ignore that and forget about that every day. It is very convenient. They never even talk about the price of climate change. What is the cost to taxpayers to help people in Atlantic Canada? We will be there for them. What is the cost in British Columbia with floods? What was the cost in Alberta, to taxpayers, of fires? What is the cost to Canadian homes and households if there is a drought in the Prairies, or if there is a drought elsewhere, and the price of food goes up? If we are going to have a serious discussion about the cost of living, climate change needs to be part of that, but we see, time and time again, the Conservative Party being unserious about science. We saw it on vaccines. We have seen it now again on climate change. It has been disappointing to be here in this House and see it. Some members, including the member for Louis-Saint-Laurent who just spoke, say that climate change is a real thing. That is great. I know the Conservative Party itself voted that down in its last policy meeting. However, why is there no action? Why are those members not being heard by the leadership to say that we need to take serious action on the climate? My friend, the hon. member from Kingston, talked about a previous Conservative government in the 1980s that exercised global leadership in North America and helped institute a price on pollution. At times, it seems the hon. leader of the Conservative Party likes to engage in Thatcherism. I do not have a lot of positive things to say about that, but one of the things that— An hon. member: Oh, oh! Mr. Chris Bittle: Madam Speaker, we hear heckles that some of them like Margaret Thatcher, which is great. However, the one thing they do not like is that she warned the world early on that carbon dioxide was a problem, and Britain is now further ahead than Canada. It is shocking, this cognitive dissonance that is going on in the Conservative Party. They like Margaret Thatcher, but they do not like this one thing she talked about. They like science, sort of, but they do not necessarily like vaccines. They are not going to talk about real solutions on climate change, and they do not care about the next generation or the generation after that. I would take this motion a bit more seriously if there were actually a genuine plan and if there were something coming forward. It is very easy to feed on people's fears and anxieties, especially at a time like now, which is a time of extreme uncertainty, war and environmental turmoil, but the Conservatives offer nothing. They offer nothing in this place, except fear. We have brought forward solutions. We have brought forward real solutions to the environmental climate crisis. Maybe some day they will take it seriously, but after three elections, Canadians have seen that the Conservative Party of Canada does not take environmental climate change seriously and that is why the Conservatives are probably going to stay on that side of the House, unless they come to the table and address Canadians properly and talk about affordability in a real way and that means addressing climate change.

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Mr. Greg McLean (Calgary Centre, CPC)

Oct/20/22 4:30:57 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I listened to the member across the way. It was a bit of a vitriolic on my colleagues here and our stance on climate and the environment, which I think is much more progressive than what I have seen on that side of the House, because we are actually trying to come to solutions. However, solutions are one thing and talking about pretending to be serious is something else. I am going to catch him on this because he has failed every step he has made as far as reducing emissions goes. When we talk about being serious, I would like him to think seriously. I would like to go back to where the whole concept of carbon pricing started. It was advanced by a gentleman named William Nordhaus who won a Nobel Prize for it. A carbon tax was effectively one way of doing it. Let us take a look at how the current government talks about the carbon tax it has. It has to throw regulations on it, including the clean fuel standard, the clean electricity standard and numerous others. It is atrocious. If it is thinking about a market mechanism, this is not a market mechanism. It is a tax. Can the member address that?

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Mr. Chris Bittle

Oct/20/22 4:31:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled, this is not a tax. It is a price on pollution that is returned back to Canadians. The hon. member talked about solutions at the beginning of his question and then rambled on about nothing. Never do I hear a Conservative member stand up in this place and offer anything concrete, anything substantive on climate change. There is nothing, time after time, day after day, year after year, from any of them. They are laughing over there and smiling like this is some kind of joke that our children are going to live through, their children are going to live through and our grandchildren are going to live through. They do not care.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

Oct/20/22 4:32:40 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague opposite for his speech. However, anger is a not a good guide when it comes to this subject. We are talking about inflation and a suggestion that was made by the Conservative Party. I would like to know what my colleague opposite sees as alternative solutions for increasing seniors' purchasing power. What about making the economy more resilient, for example, by rebuilding the supply chain, reducing our dependence on oil or taking action to address the labour shortage? What other proposals does my colleague have?

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Mr. Chris Bittle

Oct/20/22 4:33:20 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think there were six questions bundled up in there, and I do not think I have enough time in my 30 seconds to respond to that. Even just looking at seniors with respect to the GST tax credit and rental supports, that is something that seniors and low-income seniors will benefit from. We have raised the OAS. We have raised the guaranteed income supplement. We have been there for seniors. The Conservatives are talking about the cost of living, but after the Conservative government increased the age people can collect OAS and GIS to 67, we lowered it back down. It did not increase the age its members could collect their pensions. They just increased it for seniors.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach, NDP)

Oct/20/22 4:34:06 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, what I believe is an important piece to this, which was mentioned by the Conservative bench and I want to give it credit for that, is the fact that the current Liberal government has increased the production of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases with its plan. However, what we are also seeing on the other end is that its budgets are continuing to pad the pockets of rich big oil and making sure they can continue to increase production. These two are connected. When will the current government come clean and actually do the work?

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Mr. Chris Bittle

Oct/20/22 4:34:43 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, with respect to subsidies, I know the previous Liberal member discussed our plan on fossil fuel subsidies, but it is interesting that the New Democrats in the last Parliament voted in favour of one of those increases, which was to clean up abandoned wells to help address the devastating economic impacts of oil and gas and the companies that have abandoned those oil and gas wells, and to put people back to work. Now, a year later, they are saying that they did not mean it when they voted for it. Let us have a serious discussion. The New Democrats were in favour of it before, and they are against it now.

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Ms. Melissa Lantsman (Thornhill, CPC)

Oct/20/22 4:35:28 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with my friend, the hon. member for Lakeland. It is honour to once again rise on behalf of the people of Thornhill and bring their voices to Ottawa. I am proud to stand in this place on today's opposition motion from the hon. member for Calgary Forest Lawn, our new finance critic. Today's motion could not come at a more opportune time. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but winter is coming and it gets cold in this country. As it gets colder, Canadians are firing up their home furnaces to keep themselves warm. For many this year, the decision to turn on the heat will not be as easy as flicking a switch. Here is why. Most Canadians who pay for natural gas or electricity can expect their bills will rise by 50% to 100% on average this winter. I am going to say that again: The cost of natural gas or electricity will rise between 50% and 100%. There are some households that are going to pay up to $3,000 this winter in some parts of this country. Where would a family find $3,000? Where would a senior find $3,000 to pay for it? Knowing all of this, the government continues to push its plan to triple the carbon tax on seniors for the crime of heating their homes in February. It continues to push its plan to triple the carbon tax on families for the crime of heating their homes in February. The government continues to push its plan to triple the carbon tax on every single Canadian, wherever they live, whatever their walk of life, for the crime of heating their homes in February in Canada. The price of furnace oil hit $1.984 in Halifax last week. That has gone up about 30¢. It is not a luxury to heat one's home in Canada in the winter months, yet the government wants to punish people for doing it. It calls them polluters, seniors living in this country. Forty per cent of Atlantic Canadians are living in energy poverty, yet the government wants to hit them with a tax hike. They are not polluters. The debate today suggests that members of the House do not agree, and if Liberals are not going to back down on their plan to triple the tax, would they at least have the compassion to exempt home heating from a tax hike? Why would they not at least do that? Why would they not at least consider that? The government would say that the price of gas is out of its control, that the reasons are international and unpredictable, and that the government is a bystander in this country. It seems it has forgotten it is the governing party, while Canadians from coast to coast to coast are being punished by the influences that are a product of the government's own decision-making. There is an inflation crisis in this country, and the government is fuelling that crisis. The Liberals had an epiphany today. They have said they are going to solve this crisis. How do we trust a government that has created the crisis to now solve the crisis? The Governor of the Bank of Canada even agrees that policies of the government contributed to increased inflation. We would not know it from those opposite who claim that it could not possibly be true, that nothing happening today is happening because of their decisions. They are bystanders in their own government, and we are all just watching the show. Everything is outside of their control, at least when it is convenient. We have 40-year highs of inflation. People are struggling just to afford the basics: food, gas, electricity, a home. Nearly 50% of people in this country are within $200 of insolvency. More Canadians than ever before are using food banks. We are an advanced economy. This is Canada. They are using food banks at a rate 20% higher. The sky-high costs of home heating this winter will be too much for too many Canadians, and we do not have to wait. Everyone except my hon. colleagues on the other side are asking why. Why has it gotten so out of control? Why is a basic necessity of life so unaffordable? Why is it getting harder and harder to afford anything, let alone to get ahead? If we listen to any of the answers from the government, we would hear talk about international phenomenon and foreign wars, along with empty words and slogans about failed programs that only drive up the cost of living and add more debt that the next generation will have to pay. The Liberals talk about our performance in the G7 as though it is something to marvel at. Here is a fact: Our country has the worst projected GDP growth of any advanced economy. It is last, and it is on page 25 of their own budget document, in last place. Enough with the talking points and the excuses. We know what the real answer is. The deliberate actions of this government are driving up the cost of everything in this country, and ignoring it has become an embarrassing defence of the indefensible. The Liberals gave us a tax plan disguised as an environment plan, which has been directly cited for higher energy prices. The carbon tax is working so well that it has already been raised three times, yet we are still no closer to meeting any single environmental target, and emissions have gone up. There is no member in the House who can say that we raised taxes on Canadians and emissions went down because it did not happen. We have not hit a single target. Today, we have the opportunity to give Canadians a break and maintain the Liberals' record of not hitting a single target. They are not going to do it if we cut the carbon tax. They did not do it with the carbon tax, and they are not going to do it if we raise the carbon tax. Nobody on the other side can tell me how high the carbon tax has to go for them to hit a single target. Not one of those members can answer that question. Canada is the only country in the G7 that has raised fuel taxes during a period of record-high inflation, which is another fact. Canada raised taxes when more than 50 other countries, other governments worldwide, provided tax relief to ease the burden of inflation at this time. What do other countries know that we do not? We have so many natural resources in this country, and that includes vast reserves of oil and natural gas. Instead of promoting production here in Canada, lowering prices and creating good-paying jobs, we are chasing opportunity out of our country with more red tape, regulations and policies that make it clear to job creators that they just might be more valued somewhere else. When I say that everybody knows about the Canadian cost of living crisis, that includes the Prime Minister and the members on his front bench. They have admitted that prices are out of control, and they recognize that people are having trouble paying their bills. On Monday, the Minister of Finance said that times are only going to get tougher, and we know that it is due to a government failure to control the drivers of inflation. They are the ones doing it. Even though Liberals know that Canadians are struggling, they are serving up more punishing policies to go along with the freezing cold temperatures that we are about to have. They are going to triple the carbon tax. The government has no plan to support our domestic oil and gas industry, and it is counting on the path of reckless government spending that will drive up the cost of the goods we buy and the interest we pay. Before members of the House disparage the oil and gas industry more than they already have today, I will remind everyone that Canadian oil and gas has the highest ESG rating of anywhere in the world, and we cannot build a single electric car without it. Oil and gas has been the single driver and contributor to our GDP, and that is probably why page 25 of this budget says that we have the worst projected growth in the G7, and among advanced economies. It will become clear to Canadians soon that rising prices on food and transportation, and the 100% increases on home heating, will be directly attributed to burdening Canadians with a rising carbon tax and restricting resource development in the name of an ideological crusade that does not even reduce emissions. Let that sink in. Not a single target has been hit. Canadians know that this is not the right path, and even the Liberals know it. The Liberal premier of Newfoundland said that the Prime Minister's policies are imposing “considerable economic hardship and stress”. The Liberals have an opportunity to exempt home heating from their new taxes. It is time for the government to stand up for ordinary Canadians, whom they used to represent, and the middle class it promised to help. It is time for the government to give Canadians a break, and give them back control over their lives and their thermostats.

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Mr. Adam van Koeverden (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health and to the Minister of Sport, Lib.)

Oct/20/22 4:45:10 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Conservatives have loved avoiding three simple facts throughout this debate. The first is that climate change is real and carbon pricing works. I appreciated the note about William Nordhaus and his Nobel Prize explaining just that. The second is that the price on pollution is not a tax. When the Conservatives say “fuel taxes”, they are saying the Supreme Court of Canada wrong. It is not a tax. It is a rebate program, and it helps Canadians. Canadians have just received their climate action incentive payments, which is something the Conservatives like to avoid talking about. The third is that we are delivering on dental care and rental supports, and the Conservatives are going to vote against them. By all accounts, they do not want to help lower-income kids get their teeth fixed. They do not want to see $500 put into the pockets of people who are stressed out about paying their rent. Why is it that the Conservatives are so focused on going back to a time when they were focused on sending cheques to millionaires, making tax breaks for the wealthy and driving Canadians further and further into debt, just as they did when they were in power?

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Ms. Melissa Lantsman

Oct/20/22 4:46:07 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, more than 60% of Canadians in Ontario, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba pay more in carbon taxes than they receive back. That is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer actually—

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Mr. Adam van Koeverden

Oct/20/22 4:46:24 p.m.
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That is wrong.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Oct/20/22 4:46:24 p.m.
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I want to remind the hon. parliamentary secretary there is no opportunity for rebuttal unless it is through another question or comment. I will allow the hon. member for Thornhill to answer without any further interruption.

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Ms. Melissa Lantsman

Oct/20/22 4:46:36 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, perhaps the member can take that up with the Parliamentary Budget Officer. This carbon tax has not hit a single environmental target. It has not reduced emissions. It started at $30, and then it went to $40. It is now $50, going to $170. At what point are they going to stop this madness?

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Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ)

Oct/20/22 4:46:59 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. What are her thoughts on the statement by the European Central Bank's chief economist about how boosting the most vulnerable people's purchasing power is the best way to fight this round of inflation, and how this policy should be paid for through redistribution, which means drastically increasing taxes on the very rich? Do she and her party agree with this principle?

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Ms. Melissa Lantsman

Oct/20/22 4:47:31 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, more than 50 countries, including those in Europe, which he referenced, have cut fuel taxes or have cut a tax during this period of inflationary pressure. When the government spends money on programs, some of those programs do not hit very many people at all, and that drives the cost of everything else up. We know that. Bank economists here have said that. Without vaporizing all of the money it is giving back to Canadians, on top of the money Canadians are not getting back when they pay more carbon taxes than they get back, it does not matter. It is fuelling an inflation crisis. Everybody knows it.

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Ms. Bonita Zarrillo (Port Moody—Coquitlam, NDP)

Oct/20/22 4:48:19 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to congratulate the member for Thornhill on the role of deputy leader of the opposition. There are points we can agree on, such as the growth of the reliance on food banks in this country and the need to give Canadians a break. My ask for the member is around the NDP policy to have a GST exemption on home heating bills. Is that something the Conservatives would support?

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