SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 114 - Oct/20/22

Oct/20/22 8:14:43 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I have so much to say in so little time. I will share only one of the instances where the needs of the veterans are undervalued, because those who make the decisions about their care fail to consult the best sources for the answers, answers to the dilemma of backlogs, the best treatment, and how to release, retain and enlist with dignity. I will give one example of an instance of inflicting sanctuary trauma. An article posted by the Canadian Press on August 7 stated that the federal government is “reimbursing a record number of veterans for medical marijuana”. This article prompted VAC to immediately limit when veterans can order their product within their monthly prescription. This caused veterans to suddenly not have any marijuana products for three months and caused a loss of cannabinoid buildup. For three weeks, veterans suffered physical pain, lack of sleep, nightmares and mental anguish. Why? It was because Veterans Affairs responded to a news story without any consultation with veterans who had turned to using cannabis rather than pharmaceuticals. Every veteran had to suddenly reconfigure their usage. VAC conducted a snap internal audit and now, because of another article in September by the same journalist, veterans are going to face harder thresholds to qualify for cannabis, as well as losing certain products that they depend upon. One veteran from my riding said, “I need dry cannabis, CBD oils, concentrates, topicals and edibles. I use each product for a specific purpose and now it will be taken away.” He asked, “Why? Is it to save money? It can't be about the veterans' health, because they didn't consider consultation with them a priority in their response to what the media 'reported'.” He spoke to the difference in quality of life for him and asked why veterans are then being required to use pharmaceuticals. He said that he felt like a zombie under those conditions, and now with his cannabis prescription his life is so much better. This is something we need to consider and research at VAC, and we need listen to veterans. What is the difference in outcomes? What is the difference in the cost of treatments? The government reassessed its decision and the ordering period has been changed back to the original format. However, the original decision needs to be evaluated. Who authorized this change to the ordering period, and what did they base their decision on? Whoever it was had no perspective on how they ruined thousands of veterans that day and in subsequent weeks. It sent them into a very deep state of anxiety. The veteran who shared this issue with me is only one of many veterans who have had to face heightened anxiety, depression and battles within their minds about the value placed on their lives after service. I will end with a very brief description of his service, so that perhaps those who hear it will more deeply appreciate his amazing service. In 1996, he joined the Canadian Forces and then after a year of boot camp in the PPCLI battle school, he was posted to the 2nd Battalion in Manitoba. From 1998 to 2004, he was deployed to Bosnia, and in 2002, to Afghanistan. He was on the first Canadian combat mission since the Korean War. He was also deployed to Operation Peregrine, a domestic firefighting mission in B.C., in 2005. He was promoted to master corporal and posted as an instructor to the Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School in Quebec. In 2008, upon promotion to sergeant, he was posted to the 1st Battalion in Edmonton, where he deployed to Afghanistan as headquarter commander. Sergeant Perry attended a year-long French language course and upon—

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The Assistant Deputy Chair

Oct/20/22 8:18:09 p.m.
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Unfortunately, the time is up. Questions and comments, the hon. member for Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne.

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado (Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, Lib.)

Oct/20/22 8:18:21 p.m.
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Madam Chair, having served with the member opposite on the veterans affairs committee, I would like to thank her for bringing this issue up, because it is incredibly important. I know that she ran out of time, and so I would like to give her a moment if she would like to finish her thoughts.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall

Oct/20/22 8:18:45 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will continue with the veteran's service. Upon promotion to warrant officer, he was posted back to the Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School where he was course commander for the next generation of army officers. In 2014, he survived a domestic terrorist attack in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec. He was the “other person”. After that event, he retired in December 2016. Throughout his career, he deployed on countless exercises and training courses. He has earned three Operational Service Medals as well as individual recognition, having received the Canadian Forces' Decoration, the Sacrifice Medal and the Governor General's citation. He currently resides in my riding, in Spalding, with his wife. I think this is a man we need to listen to.

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Ms. Lisa Marie Barron (Nanaimo—Ladysmith, NDP)

Oct/20/22 8:19:57 p.m.
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Madam Chair, does the member agree that as part of the conversation we are having this evening about mental health, it is important that we look at the holistic picture around mental illness prevention and invest in the social determinants of health, such as housing, livable income, healthy and nutritious foods? I wonder if you could offer some thoughts around the importance of wraparound supports for Canadians.

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The Deputy Chair

Oct/20/22 8:20:28 p.m.
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I would ask members to address their questions and comments through the Chair and not directly to members. The hon. member for Yorkton—Melville.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall

Oct/20/22 8:20:36 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is absolutely imperative that we create an environment, a culture and a society where people's basic needs are met. Certainly, in this circumstance, all of those things apply. A veteran without a home cannot heal. A veteran with family concerns struggles. It is a known fact that when veterans deploy, what they eat is not all that great. I went up north and experienced it. When they get home, one of the first things they should have is an opportunity to go somewhere where their bodies get to heal and they get the food, nutrition and supports they need. In the broader sense as well, that is of absolute importance.

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Mr. Todd Doherty (Cariboo—Prince George, CPC)

Oct/20/22 8:21:25 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thank my hon. colleague for her passion on this file. Since we were elected, she has been one of the loudest voices in terms of standing up for veterans who were prescribed mefloquine and the mental injuries they have faced from that drug. While we are on the topic of veterans, we know that when our veterans serve, their families do as well. Perhaps the member could talk about some of the mental health challenges that families of veterans face as well.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall

Oct/20/22 8:22:05 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I so appreciate the work that my colleague does on this file. That is one of the things that broadens that sense of sanctuary trauma for our veterans. They come home; they know they are not well; they want to get well; they see what they are doing within their own families and their spouses and children suffering greatly. It makes it that much worse for the veteran when they realize that. Sometimes I honestly think that is the tipping point for many of them. Therefore, it is absolutely crucial that we realize that when we send someone into theatre, we are sending the whole family, and we need to make sure they are cared for in ways that they ask us to care for them.

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado (Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, Lib.)

Oct/20/22 8:22:59 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will be sharing my time with the member for Richmond Hill. This is a hard conversation for many us in this chamber, many of us. It is tough to follow my colleague, who just gave an incredible speech about veterans. As many people in this chamber know, I am the mother of two serving members of the Canadian Armed Forces, the mother-in-law of a member of the Canadian Armed Forces now, the daughter of a firefighter and the spouse of a firefighter. As I said in 2016 when the incredible member for Cariboo—Prince George brought forward Bill C-211, I was one of the first members of the government to say I am in, because, unfortunately, PTSD has a chair at my kitchen table. When we come together tonight to talk about mental health, we are talking with one voice. Whether it be occupational stress from serving in the Canadian Armed Forces, emergency responders or people who face trauma, we all have someone in our lives who has suffered from mental illness, maybe even someone in this room, and we need to share those stories. We need to be together when it comes to mental health. The last two years of the pandemic were really difficult for some people. Our young people had a lot of difficulties. When I talk with parents, I see that they fear for their children. We need to make sure the supports are there when they are needed, and not three weeks later and not here as a referral paper. I am delighted that we are going to be moving forward with a three-digit suicide hotline number, thanks to my friend from Cariboo—Prince George, because when time is of the essence those supports need to be there. This debate is so important because people are feeling anxious, whether it is because of the pandemic or because of inflation and the rising cost of living, which is a huge stressor. Financial insecurity and breakdowns of relationships all play a factor in suicide ideation. We have heard of this. Therefore, we need to come together. We will put the partisanship aside, and together we are going to come up with a solution to get the supports to the people who need them and the families who are watching, because the families are the first who are seeing it. We have heard this time and time again. For the veteran who is suffering in their basement, self-medicating because they are hurting, it is the families who are dealing with it and looking for help, and we need to be there for them. I am committing tonight, in front of my colleagues around this chamber, that I will always stand to support those who need us. We did it in the past. Let us continue to do this. Let us get it right. Let us make sure those who are suffering have the support they need when they need it and that those who care about them are getting the supports. We have all received those calls in our offices to talk to that person. I am not trained in this field, but when I get the call that there is a veteran in crisis, I am taking the call. We have all been there. I want to thank the opposition for bringing this debate forward. Again, as my colleague said, it is not a debate; I think we all agree. Therefore, let us put it aside. Let us figure out how we can get this done, because coming out the pandemic my fear is that the need for mental health supports is going to be much larger than we are even anticipating. We need to be ready. We cannot be reactive. We need to be proactive in this regard. I know we can do this. We have done this before, and we can do this. When it comes to mental health, we all agree. With that, I welcome questions.

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Mrs. Karen Vecchio (Elgin—Middlesex—London, CPC)

Oct/20/22 8:28:06 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the last two speeches focused on our veterans. I think every single person in this chamber can agree that the veterans who have fought for this country and who have served this country deserve the best. With the $4.5 billion, what would the hon. member like to see sent to veterans? What would she like to see be the priority for the government when it comes to our veterans and mental health?

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado

Oct/20/22 8:28:34 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank my fellow military mom for that question. It is pretty hard for me to put a price tag on this, to be honest, because that was the reason I ran in 2015. I was not happy about supports available for veterans. I knew my kids in the service would be taken care of, but God forbid they should need support when they got out. Would it be there? Therefore, I am really a bit biased on this one because, to me, one cannot put a price tag on the supports we need to give those who put their lives on the line for our freedom and the families who support them. I cannot answer that with a dollar figure, because to me one cannot put a price on that.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP)

Oct/20/22 8:29:30 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I appreciate my hon. colleague's impassioned speech. I know the member knows about my colleague from Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke's bill on changing the National Defence Act and some of the wording in regard to members of the armed forces who commit self-harm. It goes back to some archaic language and, ultimately, when there was conscription. It was to prevent soldiers from harming themselves so they did not have to go to war. We know now, in this present modern context, that it holds a much bigger mental health issue. The army, the navy and the air force all treat it in a way that is punishable, so we are looking to change that. The New Democrats have a bill. I would like the member's opinion on that bill and to know if she will be supporting it.

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado

Oct/20/22 8:30:35 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I served on the Standing Committee on National Defence with the member who is bringing forward the bill. We have had many conversations and he knows I support removing self-harm from the National Defence Act. Someone who is hurting needs help, not punishment.

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Mr. Todd Doherty (Cariboo—Prince George, CPC)

Oct/20/22 8:31:03 p.m.
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Madam Chair, my hon. colleague across the way was the first member from the government who stepped forward to do whatever she could on her side to champion my bill, Bill C-211, and she has assisted us along the way with our other initiatives we have put forth. This is a question I asked one of her colleagues earlier, and I think it is relevant now because I know her passion in standing up for our veterans. Earlier this year, we found out that a veteran who was in need and phoned Veterans Affairs was counselled by the Veterans Affairs employee to perhaps consider MAID. That is an absolute travesty. I would like to give our hon. colleague some time to give her views on that.

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado

Oct/20/22 8:31:57 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank the member for bringing that up. I will be honest that when I read that, my first thought was that person should not be working anywhere near veterans. That is my position. That person who suggested to a veteran in need to consider medical assistance in dying should not be working with veterans.

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Mr. Majid Jowhari (Richmond Hill, Lib.)

Oct/20/22 8:32:25 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is a great honour for me to stand tonight to take part in the take-note debate on mental health, addressing the gap. This topic is close to my heart. I do not think five minutes will do it justice, but in the short time that I have been allotted, I would like to talk about the disparity between the non-indigenous and indigenous people who live in Canada. First, I would like to say that tonight I am here not only as the member of Parliament who represents the amazing riding of Richmond Hill, but also as a person with lived experience, both personally and through family and close friends. As the focus of my intervention tonight is on the indigenous, let me start by saying kwe, kwe. Ullukkut. Tansi. Hello. Bonjour. I would like to also acknowledge that Canada's Parliament is located on the beautiful unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people. We indeed need to have this conversation and debate tonight. It has been long overdue. Mental health is an urgent and critical issue that impacts non-indigenous as well as indigenous people across this country. We need to acknowledge and look closely at the states of emergency that have been declared in many indigenous communities in recent years as they suffered the horrific loss of their young and other loved ones. Suicide rates have consistently been shown to be higher among first nation, Inuit and Métis people in Canada than among non-indigenous people. In fact, the rates among first nations are three times higher than that of non-indigenous people. For the Métis, the suicide rate was approximately twice as high as that of non-indigenous. For the Inuit, the rate was approximately nine times higher. Behind each of these statistics are stories of unspeakable grief and loss, but also strength and resiliency. The historical and ongoing impacts of colonization, the forced placement of indigenous children in residential schools, the removal of indigenous peoples from their homes, families and communities during the sixties scoop and the forced relocation of communities has been well documented. This resulted in the breakdown of families, communities, political and economic structures, loss of language, culture and traditions, exposure to abuse, intergenerational transmission of trauma and marginalization, which are associated with high rates of suicide. We know these high rates are linked to a variety of factors, but we also know the way forward is to address the disparities in the determinants of health and also help indigenous people find a sense of hope and belonging. I was glad to hear that the determinants of health was a topic of a question that was raised in the House. Closing the gaps in the areas of education, housing and health care will go a long way to promoting mental well-being. The government knows that the first nation, Inuit and Métis people have suffered the effects of inadequate housing, education and health and as a result there has been an impact on their mental health outcomes. That is why we have been working with indigenous partners to determine what is needed to close the housing, education and health gaps for the non-indigenous and indigenous communities. The work to co-develop distinctions-based indigenous health legislation is part of this government's commitment to address the social determinants of health and advance self-determination in alignment with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. We know that the way forward is working with indigenous partners to address the disparities in the determinants of health and help people find a sense of hope and belonging.

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Ms. Michelle Ferreri (Peterborough—Kawartha, CPC)

Oct/20/22 8:37:20 p.m.
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Madam Chair, my question is around why we have seen such a delay. If this is such a crisis, if we have known about it for so long and the recommendations have been made, why does the member opposite think it has taken so long to do anything or take any action related to mental health?

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Mr. Majid Jowhari

Oct/20/22 8:37:50 p.m.
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Madam Chair, as the founder of the all-parliamentary mental health caucus, we have been advocating, and I am glad to see so many of my colleagues from the class of 2015 participating in this debate. I am so proud to be serving with them. We have been advocating for mental health services since 2015. The government initially supported this movement with $5 billion. Unfortunately, we have not seen the result, as a result of, in my opinion, the lack of co-operation among the provinces and territories in making sure that the services are designed to deliver the specific need community-based support. We definitely need to do a lot more work and it has to be in collaboration. It has to address the need of the community through various models that have been proposed over the last seven years that I have been in Parliament.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Oct/20/22 8:39:07 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I would first like to acknowledge the great work the member does with my colleagues from Courtenay—Alberni and Edmonton Riverbend for Father's Day on the Hill, which focuses on improving men's mental health. I think that is great work. Qujannamiik for that. Knowing that professional certified mental health services are not adequately meeting the needs of indigenous peoples, does the member agree that the federal government needs to also incorporate existing lay counsellors and volunteer counsellors who are indigenous into the health care system so they too can be paid for the great work that they do?

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