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Context: House Hansard - 114 - Oct/20/22

Oct/20/22 8:22:05 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I so appreciate the work that my colleague does on this file. That is one of the things that broadens that sense of sanctuary trauma for our veterans. They come home; they know they are not well; they want to get well; they see what they are doing within their own families and their spouses and children suffering greatly. It makes it that much worse for the veteran when they realize that. Sometimes I honestly think that is the tipping point for many of them. Therefore, it is absolutely crucial that we realize that when we send someone into theatre, we are sending the whole family, and we need to make sure they are cared for in ways that they ask us to care for them.

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado (Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, Lib.)

Oct/20/22 8:22:59 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will be sharing my time with the member for Richmond Hill. This is a hard conversation for many us in this chamber, many of us. It is tough to follow my colleague, who just gave an incredible speech about veterans. As many people in this chamber know, I am the mother of two serving members of the Canadian Armed Forces, the mother-in-law of a member of the Canadian Armed Forces now, the daughter of a firefighter and the spouse of a firefighter. As I said in 2016 when the incredible member for Cariboo—Prince George brought forward Bill C-211, I was one of the first members of the government to say I am in, because, unfortunately, PTSD has a chair at my kitchen table. When we come together tonight to talk about mental health, we are talking with one voice. Whether it be occupational stress from serving in the Canadian Armed Forces, emergency responders or people who face trauma, we all have someone in our lives who has suffered from mental illness, maybe even someone in this room, and we need to share those stories. We need to be together when it comes to mental health. The last two years of the pandemic were really difficult for some people. Our young people had a lot of difficulties. When I talk with parents, I see that they fear for their children. We need to make sure the supports are there when they are needed, and not three weeks later and not here as a referral paper. I am delighted that we are going to be moving forward with a three-digit suicide hotline number, thanks to my friend from Cariboo—Prince George, because when time is of the essence those supports need to be there. This debate is so important because people are feeling anxious, whether it is because of the pandemic or because of inflation and the rising cost of living, which is a huge stressor. Financial insecurity and breakdowns of relationships all play a factor in suicide ideation. We have heard of this. Therefore, we need to come together. We will put the partisanship aside, and together we are going to come up with a solution to get the supports to the people who need them and the families who are watching, because the families are the first who are seeing it. We have heard this time and time again. For the veteran who is suffering in their basement, self-medicating because they are hurting, it is the families who are dealing with it and looking for help, and we need to be there for them. I am committing tonight, in front of my colleagues around this chamber, that I will always stand to support those who need us. We did it in the past. Let us continue to do this. Let us get it right. Let us make sure those who are suffering have the support they need when they need it and that those who care about them are getting the supports. We have all received those calls in our offices to talk to that person. I am not trained in this field, but when I get the call that there is a veteran in crisis, I am taking the call. We have all been there. I want to thank the opposition for bringing this debate forward. Again, as my colleague said, it is not a debate; I think we all agree. Therefore, let us put it aside. Let us figure out how we can get this done, because coming out the pandemic my fear is that the need for mental health supports is going to be much larger than we are even anticipating. We need to be ready. We cannot be reactive. We need to be proactive in this regard. I know we can do this. We have done this before, and we can do this. When it comes to mental health, we all agree. With that, I welcome questions.

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Mrs. Karen Vecchio (Elgin—Middlesex—London, CPC)

Oct/20/22 8:28:06 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the last two speeches focused on our veterans. I think every single person in this chamber can agree that the veterans who have fought for this country and who have served this country deserve the best. With the $4.5 billion, what would the hon. member like to see sent to veterans? What would she like to see be the priority for the government when it comes to our veterans and mental health?

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado

Oct/20/22 8:28:34 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank my fellow military mom for that question. It is pretty hard for me to put a price tag on this, to be honest, because that was the reason I ran in 2015. I was not happy about supports available for veterans. I knew my kids in the service would be taken care of, but God forbid they should need support when they got out. Would it be there? Therefore, I am really a bit biased on this one because, to me, one cannot put a price tag on the supports we need to give those who put their lives on the line for our freedom and the families who support them. I cannot answer that with a dollar figure, because to me one cannot put a price on that.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP)

Oct/20/22 8:29:30 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I appreciate my hon. colleague's impassioned speech. I know the member knows about my colleague from Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke's bill on changing the National Defence Act and some of the wording in regard to members of the armed forces who commit self-harm. It goes back to some archaic language and, ultimately, when there was conscription. It was to prevent soldiers from harming themselves so they did not have to go to war. We know now, in this present modern context, that it holds a much bigger mental health issue. The army, the navy and the air force all treat it in a way that is punishable, so we are looking to change that. The New Democrats have a bill. I would like the member's opinion on that bill and to know if she will be supporting it.

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado

Oct/20/22 8:30:35 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I served on the Standing Committee on National Defence with the member who is bringing forward the bill. We have had many conversations and he knows I support removing self-harm from the National Defence Act. Someone who is hurting needs help, not punishment.

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Mr. Todd Doherty (Cariboo—Prince George, CPC)

Oct/20/22 8:31:03 p.m.
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Madam Chair, my hon. colleague across the way was the first member from the government who stepped forward to do whatever she could on her side to champion my bill, Bill C-211, and she has assisted us along the way with our other initiatives we have put forth. This is a question I asked one of her colleagues earlier, and I think it is relevant now because I know her passion in standing up for our veterans. Earlier this year, we found out that a veteran who was in need and phoned Veterans Affairs was counselled by the Veterans Affairs employee to perhaps consider MAID. That is an absolute travesty. I would like to give our hon. colleague some time to give her views on that.

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado

Oct/20/22 8:31:57 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank the member for bringing that up. I will be honest that when I read that, my first thought was that person should not be working anywhere near veterans. That is my position. That person who suggested to a veteran in need to consider medical assistance in dying should not be working with veterans.

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Mr. Majid Jowhari (Richmond Hill, Lib.)

Oct/20/22 8:32:25 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is a great honour for me to stand tonight to take part in the take-note debate on mental health, addressing the gap. This topic is close to my heart. I do not think five minutes will do it justice, but in the short time that I have been allotted, I would like to talk about the disparity between the non-indigenous and indigenous people who live in Canada. First, I would like to say that tonight I am here not only as the member of Parliament who represents the amazing riding of Richmond Hill, but also as a person with lived experience, both personally and through family and close friends. As the focus of my intervention tonight is on the indigenous, let me start by saying kwe, kwe. Ullukkut. Tansi. Hello. Bonjour. I would like to also acknowledge that Canada's Parliament is located on the beautiful unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people. We indeed need to have this conversation and debate tonight. It has been long overdue. Mental health is an urgent and critical issue that impacts non-indigenous as well as indigenous people across this country. We need to acknowledge and look closely at the states of emergency that have been declared in many indigenous communities in recent years as they suffered the horrific loss of their young and other loved ones. Suicide rates have consistently been shown to be higher among first nation, Inuit and Métis people in Canada than among non-indigenous people. In fact, the rates among first nations are three times higher than that of non-indigenous people. For the Métis, the suicide rate was approximately twice as high as that of non-indigenous. For the Inuit, the rate was approximately nine times higher. Behind each of these statistics are stories of unspeakable grief and loss, but also strength and resiliency. The historical and ongoing impacts of colonization, the forced placement of indigenous children in residential schools, the removal of indigenous peoples from their homes, families and communities during the sixties scoop and the forced relocation of communities has been well documented. This resulted in the breakdown of families, communities, political and economic structures, loss of language, culture and traditions, exposure to abuse, intergenerational transmission of trauma and marginalization, which are associated with high rates of suicide. We know these high rates are linked to a variety of factors, but we also know the way forward is to address the disparities in the determinants of health and also help indigenous people find a sense of hope and belonging. I was glad to hear that the determinants of health was a topic of a question that was raised in the House. Closing the gaps in the areas of education, housing and health care will go a long way to promoting mental well-being. The government knows that the first nation, Inuit and Métis people have suffered the effects of inadequate housing, education and health and as a result there has been an impact on their mental health outcomes. That is why we have been working with indigenous partners to determine what is needed to close the housing, education and health gaps for the non-indigenous and indigenous communities. The work to co-develop distinctions-based indigenous health legislation is part of this government's commitment to address the social determinants of health and advance self-determination in alignment with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. We know that the way forward is working with indigenous partners to address the disparities in the determinants of health and help people find a sense of hope and belonging.

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Ms. Michelle Ferreri (Peterborough—Kawartha, CPC)

Oct/20/22 8:37:20 p.m.
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Madam Chair, my question is around why we have seen such a delay. If this is such a crisis, if we have known about it for so long and the recommendations have been made, why does the member opposite think it has taken so long to do anything or take any action related to mental health?

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Mr. Majid Jowhari

Oct/20/22 8:37:50 p.m.
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Madam Chair, as the founder of the all-parliamentary mental health caucus, we have been advocating, and I am glad to see so many of my colleagues from the class of 2015 participating in this debate. I am so proud to be serving with them. We have been advocating for mental health services since 2015. The government initially supported this movement with $5 billion. Unfortunately, we have not seen the result, as a result of, in my opinion, the lack of co-operation among the provinces and territories in making sure that the services are designed to deliver the specific need community-based support. We definitely need to do a lot more work and it has to be in collaboration. It has to address the need of the community through various models that have been proposed over the last seven years that I have been in Parliament.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Oct/20/22 8:39:07 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I would first like to acknowledge the great work the member does with my colleagues from Courtenay—Alberni and Edmonton Riverbend for Father's Day on the Hill, which focuses on improving men's mental health. I think that is great work. Qujannamiik for that. Knowing that professional certified mental health services are not adequately meeting the needs of indigenous peoples, does the member agree that the federal government needs to also incorporate existing lay counsellors and volunteer counsellors who are indigenous into the health care system so they too can be paid for the great work that they do?

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Mr. Majid Jowhari

Oct/20/22 8:39:58 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thank the hon. member for her acknowledgement. Indeed, we need to do everything in our power to make sure that we not only focus on parity between mental health and physical health, but also resolve the issue of the disparity that exists specifically for the indigenous community. I have been advocating for parity since 2015. As I am becoming more aware and more educated on the issue of the disparity that exists among indigenous and non-indigenous, I felt that it is time for me to also advocate for the indigenous and, indeed, make sure that we have not only the support at the professional level but also the support at other levels. I talked about the social determinants of health being housing, being education, being support and being community. All of those will go a long way in helping to address the disparity that exists.

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Mr. Todd Doherty (Cariboo—Prince George, CPC)

Oct/20/22 8:41:14 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I must have misunderstood or misheard my hon. colleague in reference to a question that was asked earlier about one of the challenges we are facing with respect to the government's dollars and why they are not flowing. I think I heard him say that it was an issue with the provinces. I am wondering if he could clarify that.

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Mr. Majid Jowhari

Oct/20/22 8:41:44 p.m.
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Madam Chair, to my colleague, who I have had the honour of knowing since 2015 and working with him, let me clarify. Health care and specifically mental health is a multi-jurisdictional issue. It is the responsibility of the federal government as well as the provincial government. We need both partners to come to the table and focus on the outcome, which is the health and the mental health and well-being of all Canadians, indigenous and non-indigenous, rather than squarely blaming the provincial government. I thank the member for correcting me if I came across in that way.

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Ms. Michelle Ferreri (Peterborough—Kawartha, CPC)

Oct/20/22 8:42:30 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will be sharing my time today with the member for Brandon—Souris. Five minutes to talk about mental health is certainly not enough time. I appreciate the grace and vulnerability that has been shared tonight. I also appreciate that every single member in the House has been touched by mental health. I appreciate that everyone acknowledges that this is a crisis. However, my frustration and anger is at a bubbling point, just like many Canadians around this country. We do not need more advocacy. We need leadership. This week, 31-year-old Burnaby RCMP officer, a member of the detachment's mental health and homeless outreach team, just three years into her career, Constable Shaelyn Yang was fatally stabbed while attending a homeless campsite before 11 a.m., in broad daylight. I want to tell the House what our Prime Minister said. This is a quote from yesterday in question period: We need to do more to step up on our mental health funding, as the hon. member before mentioned. He was referring to the hon. member for Cariboo—Prince George, who has been an advocate and has done great work. The Prime Minister went on to say: We need to make sure that we are giving our frontline police officers the tools to be supported as they encounter difficult situations. We need to make sure they are not the only mental health workers out there accessible to so many people. Unfortunately they have been. They have been extraordinary at it, but we need to provide better support. The provinces and the federal government need to work together to fund more mental health supports. That is Prime Minister Justin Trudeau—

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The Deputy Chair

Oct/20/22 8:44:10 p.m.
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Members cannot use names. I just want to remind members to please respect the rules of the House. The hon. member for Peterborough—Kawartha.

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Ms. Michelle Ferreri

Oct/20/22 8:44:19 p.m.
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Madam Chair, we cannot use names. I appreciate that. My frustration lies in that, if the Prime Minister is not able to do more, then who is? Who is able to do more, if at the highest level of our federal government, we cannot do more? There are two things that a leader needs to do: listen and act. There have been countless people coming here to committees. For years and decades, people have been telling us, parliamentarians, what is wrong. Why are we not listening? Why are we not acting. We need leadership. I want to focus on the UNICEF report card, 2020 release. These are quotes from the report card: ...Canada is worlds apart from other rich countries in providing healthy, happy childhoods for every child. Canada ranks among the countries with the best economic, environmental and social conditions for growing up, but the poorest outcomes for children and youth.... Canada falls below average in more than half the measures of child well-being. I also says, “Canada ranks lowest in child survival”, ranking 35 out of 38 in teen suicides, and 33 out of 38 in child violence, including homicide. The UNICEF report card rates Canada as not making progress relative to other rich countries. It says, “Canada has been making little to no progress in reducing child mortality, obesity or bullying” and “Canada has been falling backward in children’s sense of well-being” and in the quality of their close relationships. It also says: Canada is one of only a handful of countries...that have better economic, environmental and social conditions but worse child well-being.... Canada’s governments spend less on families and children than most wealthy countries. If this does not disgust the House, I do not know what should. If we do not take care of our children, we do not have a future. How can our children be taken care of when the adults are not taken of? We have made so many strides in overcoming stigma. People are ready to go ask for help, but when they do, there is nothing there for them. I am sorry. I adore the work my colleague has done on this file. He is so passionate about mental health, like so many people in the House are, but when our lead is mental health is health, that is 20 years behind where we should be. We know mental health is health. Why are we not transferring the $4.5 billion promised by the federal government to make a difference? On the Canadian Alliance on Mental Illness and Mental Health recommendations, listen and act. That is leadership. Listen to what they are asking. Take immediate steps to create a mental health transfer allocating permanent, ongoing federal funding for mental health services starting in budget 2023. This is consistent with the multi-year funding promised in the 2021 election platform. People are dying. What more is needed? There is action we could take today, and I call on the government and everyone in the House. This is non-partisan. This impacts everyone of us. Make the difference today. We need leadership. We need to listen, and we need to act.

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Ms. Leah Taylor Roy (Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, Lib.)

Oct/20/22 8:47:40 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is really heartening to be here in the House tonight and to hear all of us agreeing on the desperate need for having more done in this field, but it often comes down to spending. I often hear from the members opposite the need for fiscal restraint, the need for us not to spend as much, that our spending is causing inflation and that the things this government is doing to help all Canadians and to try to help people with these issues are problematic. I am wondering how the member opposite reconciles that with the calls now, considering we have already given $5 billion in bilateral agreements for mental health since this government was formed in 2015.

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Ms. Michelle Ferreri

Oct/20/22 8:48:36 p.m.
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Madam Chair, what we do on this side of the House is make sure money is spent well. We know where money should go. When we have an app that should have cost less than $250,000 and it cost $54 million and the government does not even know where it is, that is what we are talking about when we talk about fiscal constraint. There is so much wasted money, and money is a sliver of the piece of the pie. One needs political will, a strategy and a plan. It is absolutely insulting for the member to say that when there is so much wasteful spending. That is not what we are talking about. There is a promised budget of $4.5 billion from the Liberal government and we have not seen it.

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