SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 117 - Oct/25/22

Oct/25/22 3:43:27 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Mount Royal for his question. I also thank him for asking a real question that allows for discussion and dialogue. I think that is very important. Besides, if one believes that the House will overwhelmingly support the Bloc Québécois motion and allow this split with the British Crown, that is just wishful thinking. However, I must candidly admit that it was after discussing with my colleague from Mount Royal that I added to my speech today the possibility of reaching out to our fellow citizens to take part in this dialogue. I do not think we are going to solve this issue in the House, but we are nonetheless triggering something. We are initiating a discussion which could generate more interest in the public space. I fully agree with my colleague and we can talk about it again as soon as possible after consulting the citizens, the provinces and everyone involved. Maybe we can have a debate that will lead us somewhere.

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP)

Oct/25/22 3:44:33 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. As a left-leaning man or woman or as a socialist, you fight against inequality and privilege. No system gives more privileges to a family than the monarchical system. It is an absurd, archaic and undemocratic system. We agree on that. However, when we participate in debates in the House, we must use time wisely and set priorities. Still, the Bloc Québécois chose to speak on this topic, which has little impact on ordinary people. Earlier today we welcomed representatives of the interprovincial alliance of the unemployed, who are concerned about the lifting of temporary employment insurance measures. Some people will be left out in the cold in January and February. They will not get a cheque and will fall into poverty. I personally would have preferred such a topic rather than one that, while important and symbolic, is still pretty far from the immediate concerns of the people.

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Mr. Martin Champoux

Oct/25/22 3:45:29 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague from Rosemont—La Petite‑Patrie has enough weight within his caucus to be able to contribute to the choice of topic for his party's next opposition day. In the meantime, in the Bloc Québécois, we saw that there was a debate on this topic in Quebec. I am sure that my colleague from Rosemont—La Petite‑Patrie read about it in one of our many newspapers or heard about it from one of our many broadcasters. There is a lot of discussion on the issue of swearing an oath to the King at the National Assembly of Quebec and the monarchy's place in our political system in general. I think this is a topic that affects, concerns and interests Quebeckers, which absolutely does not stop us from talking about other things that are more urgent. In fact, we asked two questions about it today during question period. That is what I had to say about it.

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Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, BQ)

Oct/25/22 3:46:22 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his presentation. Antigua and Barbuda, the Bahamas, Jamaica and Saint Kitts and Nevis have undertaken steps to cut ties with the monarchy, or at least distance themselves from it. I have a question for my colleague. New Zealand and Australia set aside the monarchy through a referendum. Is that not the path the Canadian government should take?

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Mr. Martin Champoux

Oct/25/22 3:46:57 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Rivière‑des‑Mille‑Îles for his question. Australia opened the debate. People are being heard at present and they are mainly talking about the place that first nations must have in those discussions. I completely agree that we must listen to what is being done elsewhere, to what is already starting to be done elsewhere and we must follow suit. As my colleague from Rivière‑des‑Mille‑Îles said, we could hold a referendum, however we could also move motions to be adopted by the House of Commons. I also want to say that the Bloc Québécois ensured that the House of Commons unanimously passed a motion to increase EI sickness benefits to 52 weeks. There was unanimous consent of the House, but nothing was done afterwards. Thus—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Oct/25/22 3:47:38 p.m.
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Resuming debate. The hon. member for Shefford.

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Ms. Andréanne Larouche (Shefford, BQ)

Oct/25/22 3:47:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is with great humility that I rise to speak on this Bloc Québécois opposition day. To begin, I would like to reread the motion: That, given that, (i) Canada is a democratic state, (ii) this House believes in the principle of equality for all, the House express its desire to sever ties between the Canadian State and the British monarchy, and call on the government to take the actions necessary to do so. I may not be a constitutionalist, but I am deeply democratic. All over the world, people are condemning the fact that democracy is ailing. I have just returned from a week in Kigali, where the Inter-Parliamentary Union expressed concerns about the rise of authoritarianism and the loss of interest in democracy. If we want more representative parliaments, we must certainly avoid having heads of state who are disconnected from their people. I will approach my speech from three angles: the cost of governors general, the wastefulness of lieutenant governors, and the symbolism of the British monarchy. Current events are bringing this issue back into the spotlight with the accession of Charles III. Our opposition day is part of our desire to modernize and democratize our institutions. First of all, what is that $70 million used for? That money may not be enough to change the world, but it shows that it is expensive to remain a British subject. On average, the government spends just over $67 million a year on honours and awards, ceremonial events and travel. That is almost as much as some of the measures set out in the most recent federal budget. For example, the budget provides for $75 million in 2022-23 and $75 million in 2023-24 to support affordable housing and related infrastructure in the north. More might be required given how needs are growing. It is also a lot more than the $26 million a year over seven years as of 2022-23 for the National Research Council Canada so that it can conduct research and development on innovative construction materials, such as wood, and revitalize national housing and building standards to encourage low-carbon construction solutions. It is also more than the $20.7 million per year over three years as of 2024-25 for Infrastructure Canada to launch a new veteran homelessness program. I send my regards to my colleague from Rivière‑des‑Mille‑Îles. By way of comparison, we could build 670 new housing units per year with $67 million. While we have been told since this morning that we are far out in left field with our motion, these figures bring us back to the day-to-day struggles of our constituents. Furthermore, the Liberal-Conservative Deputy Prime Minister recently announced that the next few months would be difficult, with austerity measures, but not for the monarchy. There is a double standard there. The population will be asked by the government to tighten their belts. Who will pay for that? I am not telling colleagues anything they do not already know when I say that it is the federal government, and by extension, us, that will pick up most of the tab. This includes costs associated with the position of governor general and with visits from members of the royal family. Second, it should be noted that governors general receive a very generous pension for life when they retire, as set out in the Governor General's Act. They receive almost $150,000 a year indexed to the cost of living. For example, Michaëlle Jean, who was governor general from 2005 to 2010, has already received $1.5 million. What about Julie Payette, who voluntarily left her position and will still pocket an annual amount of $150,000 for life as the Queen's former representative in Canada? Former governors general are also entitled to the reimbursement of expenses related to their former position of up to $206,000 a year. However, the federal government does not disclose the exact amounts paid out. There is a glaring lack of transparency. It does not stop there. The provinces and Quebec are responsible for the expenses associated with the lieutenant governors, of which there are ten. In 2020, total compensation amounted to $1.48 million. In 2019-20, the Quebec government paid $717,000 for the expenses of the lieutenant governor's office. Based on the premise that governors general never really retire, in addition to their pensions, they receive lifetime government funding for office and travel expenses through a program that has been in existence since 1979. Third, there is the whole symbolism behind the monarchy. Let us not forget that the British Crown derived its wealth from centuries of plundering and slavery. Let us not forget that the involvement of the Crown goes back to Elizabeth I's support of Sir John Hawkins, a navigator who in 1560 led three expeditions that would set the stage for the famous triangular trade. She was so impressed that she gave him a ship as a reward for the 300 slaves he had brought back from his first voyage. The Crown became more involved during the reign of Charles II, from 1660 to 1685. The Crown as well as members of the royal family were heavily involved in human trafficking in Africa for the express purpose of enriching and consolidating the power of the royal family. In short, while it is impossible to estimate how much the monarchy owes its fortune to the slave trade, the fact remains that it was the plundering of gold, ivory, pelts and slaves on the African coast that was the source of its fortune. For the Bloc Québécois, it is contrary to our values that a handful of individuals continue to live off these past exactions. Here is a rundown of more historical facts. The British Crown was responsible for deporting over 12,000 Acadians, nearly 80% of the population. In 1755, between 7,500 and 9,000 Acadians died as a result of this genocide. To this day, the Crown refuses to apologize. It mercilessly crushed the Patriotes' resistance movement in 1837-38, hanging many of its leaders. The Crown annexed Métis territory and hanged their leader, Louis Riel, to ensure western Canada would be English speaking. It united Lower Canada and Upper Canada in 1840 to accelerate Upper Canada's development using Lower Canada's resources and to make francophones a minority in order to assimilate them. The Crown also banned public instruction in French in all provinces with anglophone majorities for over 100 years. It was not until 1968 that French public high schools opened in Ontario. The Crown oversaw the repatriation of the Canadian Constitution in 1982 against Quebec's wishes, stabbing us in the back. The Crown lay low when the federal government did a number on the 1995 referendum process. It said nothing when the federal government set out to destroy our Bill 101 by giving millions of dollars to the Quebec Community Groups Network, which has hacked away at this critical piece of our legislation over 200 times since 1977. The royal family has never officially apologized for any of this. The British monarchy in the Americas represents 260 years of anti-French hostility, while Quebec's values of secularism and neutrality are in direct conflict with those of the monarchy, since, let us not forget, the King of England is also the head of the Church of England. Quebeckers believe strongly in the separation of church and state. In other words, the neutrality of the Quebec state and keeping the monarchy here in Canada are completely at odds with this foundation of the state. The Bloc Québécois supports the need to separate religion and government. That is why we recently proposed doing away with the prayer and replacing it with a moment of personal reflection. Quebeckers do not identify with Canada as a constitutional monarchy. The monarchy simply has no place in a democracy, which must be held to a high standard in terms of respect for the principle of the separation of church and state. When it comes to openness and secularism, the federal government would do well to follow the example set by Quebec, which is well ahead of the curve. In conclusion, we are not the only ones who are reflecting on this issue. In the past, as my colleagues have said, there was the Republic of South Africa, which was founded in May 1961. Afterward, Barbados also removed the Queen as its head of state. Other countries could follow suit. We could talk about Australia, which is considering the question. In closing, severing ties with the monarchy is justified not only by its utter uselessness, but, mostly, by the realization of the real power the monarchy wields in our institutions. Not a single bill from the National Assembly of Quebec or the House of Commons is valid without royal assent. Therefore, through his representatives, King Charles III participates in the exercise of legislative power. The monarchy goes against several principles that are at the heart of our institutions, such as equality among citizens, the sovereignty of the people, democracy and the separation of the government and religion. In fact, no matter how deserving, no Canadian and no Quebecker can ever hope to become head of state. No one is democratically elected to that high office. The title is inherited. The polls are also clear about Quebeckers wanting to get rid of the monarchy that is collectively costing millions of dollars a year. The Bloc Québécois thinks that this is a good opportunity to stop wasting public money on a completely archaic institution. The Bloc Québécois stands with Quebeckers and has been concerned about the cost of living for a long time. Our election platform attests to that. One last thing: the Conservative leader seemed out of touch when he began his victory speech after the leadership race by praising the Queen, as though outside the monarchy there is no salvation. If we were that disconnected from the will of Quebeckers, they would not be talking to us about it so much. It is not opportunistic to have this debate today about our ties to the monarchy. It is a natural part of the context where Canadians and Quebeckers have been disinterested in and questioning this for many years. Finally, to hear the exchanges today, does that not confirm that we are a nation that aspires to what is most natural for a people, its liberty and independence?

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Oct/25/22 3:57:50 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I believe the members of the Bloc are completely out of touch with the communities they represent. When I look at the things we have been talking about, whether in Winnipeg North or throughout all regions in Canada, they are things such the cost of living, health care and long-term care. People want to talk about a wide variety of issues. Then the Bloc brings forward a motion that does not talk about what it would replace it with, just that it does not want the Crown. This is my question for the member. Could she indicate to the House what she would replace the monarchy with? Would she say that the Prime Minister should become more powerful? Would she say that we should have an election to elect a president? Is she saying that we should appoint one? What would the Bloc do?

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Ms. Andréanne Larouche

Oct/25/22 3:58:54 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will not give my colleague from Winnipeg North a lesson in democracy. There are other republican systems that we could study, and it is clear that these systems would cost less than what is in place at present. People would not be paying $1,000 for lemons. Putting that aside, I cannot speak for the people of Winnipeg North, but, in my riding, a reeve in a regional county municipality recently told me that it is an important issue because it is costly. He knows what is happening in our area. Back home, we are fed up with seeing half of our seniors being ignored by the Liberal government because it does not want to invest due to the cost. Those are political choices. So many women are beaten and raped, so many women have mental health problems, but they cannot receive adequate treatment from community groups because the government is not making the health transfers that are required. That is a political choice. At some point, choices have to be made. The government has to find the money somewhere and reinvest it in our communities.

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP)

Oct/25/22 3:59:43 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech and her passion. With regard to the monarchy, I will simply quote the very famous Indiana Jones who said, “That belongs in a museum”. The Bloc Québécois has talked a lot about the money that could be saved, and it is true that $67 million is a lot of money. We could build a lot of social housing and help community groups with that money. Every little bit counts when it comes to helping people. Recently, the group Canadians for Tax Fairness reminded us that, for last year alone, tax loopholes cost us $30 billion, so that is $30 billion that was lost. Why did the Bloc Québécois take all day today in the House to talk about approximately $67 million in savings, when we could have talked about tax evasion and the $30 billion that could potentially be collected?

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Ms. Andréanne Larouche

Oct/25/22 4:00:37 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie for his question, which gives me the opportunity to talk about other sources of revenue. Why did we not talk about tax evasion today? The reason is that we have already spoken about it at length with my colleague from Joliette, whom I commend. He is waging a massive battle against tax avoidance and tax evasion. Unfortunately, the numbers show that the Liberals opposite are inept when it comes to fighting tax avoidance and tax evasion. That being said, I completely agree with my colleague that this is indeed another source of revenue. When we talk about tax avoidance and tax evasion, it is radio silence from the members opposite, but we are not going to give up, believe me. We could also get money from web giants like GAFAM, who avoid having to pay taxes much too easily.

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Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, BQ)

Oct/25/22 4:01:13 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. From what I gather, my colleagues in the other parties disagree with Quebec's modern, forward-looking values, and they prefer to live in the past. I respect their choice, but there is something that I do not understand and I would like to hear my colleague's opinion. How can they claim that the issues we want to discuss today are irrelevant and do not warrant the slightest debate in the House of Commons? That type of judgment and thinking they know what is best for Quebeckers is beyond me. Still, we have a concern, which we raised today. Would it be possible to express it without having to face an outcry like we did today?

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Ms. Andréanne Larouche

Oct/25/22 4:02:19 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Rivière‑des‑Mille‑Îles for his question. I believe the Bloc Québécois is also concerned about other issues. Today, on Parliament Hill, the Bloc once again defended employment insurance reform, which is long overdue. It is seasonal workers who are penalized right now, and the Bloc spoke out about it. We did not talk about the monarchy. Today is our opposition day, during which we raised an important issue. I really like the expression “talk and chew gum at the same time”. We can talk today, here in the House, about how much the monarchy everyone is talking about is costing us and about the fact that we do not talk about it—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Oct/25/22 4:03:00 p.m.
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Order. Resuming debate. The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader, Senate.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate), Lib.)

Oct/25/22 4:03:07 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, today, I will be sharing my time with the member for Hochelaga. I want to start off today's discussion by reflecting on exactly what we are doing here today. Those who are watching, perhaps who do not tune in regularly and may have happened across the channel today displaying the parliamentary proceedings, might wonder what is going on. In a calendar year, based on the composition of the House of Commons, the Bloc Québécois gets three sitting days of the House to bring forward issues that are important to the individuals and communities it represents. Today is one of those days, and today is not unique, unfortunately. This is not the first time the Bloc Québécois has done something like this. Today, it has decided to bring forward a motion that we somehow start this constitutional process of removing the monarch from the framework that sets up our parliamentary democratic system. However, the Bloc did something very similar with respect to being completely out in left field just last spring when it brought forward a motion to remove the 15-second prayer at the beginning of the proceedings every day in the House of Commons I mention this not because I do not think these two issues might be important to Bloc members, but I bring these up because I wonder how, when the Bloc Québécois gets three days in a calendar year to bring issues forward, it uses two of those days to talk about the 15-second prayer we have at the beginning of the day and this motion about the monarchy and the current framework of our parliamentary system. This is important to Bloc members, but I cannot believe for one second that it is the most important thing about which their constituents care. I have been the member of Parliament for Kingston and the Islands for seven years, and I have never once had somebody come up to me and tell me that I need to do something about the state of our democratic institution, that the head of state needs to be removed. It has never happened, but maybe it is a Quebec thing, and that is fine. My wife and I, and our kids spend a lot of time an hour north of here in Lac-Sainte-Marie, Quebec. I got to know a lot of the locals around there. After a bit of time of interacting with them and some of them finding out I am a member of Parliament, they quite often bring up issues with me. To be fair, they are not always complimentary of the government. They bring up things that the government is up to and they ask me questions about them, but never once have they brought up the issue of the head of state. The Bloc Québécois members will come in here and trumpet on about how it is important that they are able to represent their constituents and whatnot, but they are not representing their constituents. This is a personal and political agenda of the Bloc Québécois. That is why we are doing this today. We are not doing it because they want to represent their constituents and they feel it is very important for them. They are doing it because they feel it is important for their political agenda. For that, the Bloc Québécois members should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. They have wasted two supply days allotted to them in any given year to talk about absolutely irrelevant issues as they relate to what is on the minds of Canadians and Quebeckers. I am not saying people do not have opinions on the head of state or how our parliamentary system and our government should function. All I am saying is that there is no way those members can tell me this is even among the top 20 issues. We just came out of a global pandemic. I criticize the Bloc members quite a bit for the issue around health care transfers and how they always bring it up, but at least it is an issue that has substance to it with respect to what the Quebec provincial government would like to see. However, I cannot accept the idea that somehow this particular issue is one of the priorities of the constituencies represented by Bloc members. Let us just say that Bloc members are fully doing their responsibility to represent those people. I cannot help but ask myself, if they were successful in this, and let us say we could instantaneously, without all the constitutional nightmare around it, be rid of the monarchy, how would this change the lives of Canadians tomorrow morning? How would their lives be any different than they are right now today? Our head of state does not have supreme power. Our head of state, by and large, is a symbolic figure who is there to help guide the manner in which our parliamentary democracy, and our democracy generally speaking, works in our country. The lives of Canadians and Quebeckers, for that matter, would not be different tomorrow morning if the head of state were suddenly not there. I am asking myself why. I cannot help but continue to go back to the same thing. This is not about the constituencies that the Bloc represent. This is about a political wedge issue. It is using one of its three supply days as an opportunity to drive a political wedge in constituencies in Quebec. It should be ashamed because it had an opportunity to actually come here and bring forward ideas, hold government to account, set up and initiate policy that could genuinely improve the lives of Canadians. We heard something quite astounding earlier today in question period. It actually happened twice today. The time that really resonated with people was when the leader of the Bloc Québécois rose in the House and said that he did not mean it. He was, I guess, crossing his fingers. His fingers were crossed behind his back when he swore allegiance to Her Majesty when he was elected. Can members imagine if this were a court of law. He would literally have been committing perjury. He would have perjured himself. That happened earlier as well. The member for Longueuil—Saint-Hubert earlier said the exact same thing. His words were even more egregious. If members of the Bloc Québécois have now finally come to a position where they are willing to admit that they did not mean it, why do the rest of the members not stand up to say the same thing? Did they mean it when they swore allegiance, or were they just pretending too? I would love to hear some of the other members, when they get up to ask me a question, to let me know if they meant it or if they were crossing their fingers too. What a system we live in where it is so expedient for their leader to just get up and say that as though he suddenly can now wipe his hands clean of the responsibilities that he swore allegiance to not even one year ago. It goes without saying, but I certainly will not be voting in favour of this. I think that the Bloc Québécois has done an extreme disservice to the constituents it represents to try to politicize an issue that might play well in Quebec, but it does not anywhere else. I realize that it is only focused on Quebec. I get that it might play well there, but I think the fact that the Bloc Québécois has three days in a year to bring forward very important issues should not be lost on anybody. Rather than bringing forward an important issue, it has used this as an opportunity for political advantage for its own party, which should single out to the constituencies it represents how it actually feels about representing them.

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Mr. Martin Champoux (Drummond, BQ)

Oct/25/22 4:12:40 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member for Kingston and the Islands just demonstrated that he is incapable of debating an issue that he seems to be passionate about. He seems to be a staunch defender of the monarchy. I would have liked to hear his arguments in favour of the monarchy instead of listening to his arguments on the relevance of having this debate in the House. He stated his opinion clearly. I would be curious to hear the members in his party from the Acadian region in New Brunswick, for example. Did he ask those members, who represent Acadian populations whose ancestors were deported by the British Crown, how they feel about the monarchy? I would like to hear the member for Kingston and the Islands do something other than say that we are politicizing an issue. News flash, politics is what we do here. I am glad that he realizes that because that is a win for today. I would like him to tell us what we gain from spending $70 million a year to maintain a system that, in his own words, is nothing more than a symbol.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen

Oct/25/22 4:13:47 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, no, I have not brought it up with any of my colleagues, nor have they, in seven years, brought it up with me, because every time we get together to talk about issues, there are many issues that are so much more important than this. There are issues so much more important than this that we get together to talk about. Forgive me and my colleagues for not having stood up and asked, “By the way, I know we are dealing with all of this other stuff, and there is a global pandemic, along with everything else that is going on, including inflation, which is all a big deal, but by the way, how do we happen to feel about the monarchy? Is that something we are still good with?” No, I am sorry. I have not brought that question to their attention.

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Ms. Niki Ashton (Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, NDP)

Oct/25/22 4:14:33 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, to start off, I am a bit taken aback by the tone of the member. First of all, as parliamentarians, I think we all should respect important debates, whether we agree with them or not, but, second of all, there are many people, including many in indigenous communities, who have been clear that reconciliation involves decolonization and we should be looking at severing ties with the monarchy. I would encourage the member to actually talk with some folks, perhaps outside of his riding, who have some direct, very horrific experiences with the impacts of colonialism. The Liberals are the ones who promised electoral reform and promised strengthening our democracy, yet we have seen them renege on all of these promises. Is this not an opportunity to stand up take a look at our democracy and all the ways we can strengthen it, including severing our ties with the monarchy?

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen

Oct/25/22 4:15:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the NDP are now using the politicization of this issue to politicize its own issue of electoral reform. There is an irony in that. Just for the record, I am not saying that there are no good arguments. I am pretty much indifferent to the position of the monarchy and how that continues on. However, it is not going to be resolved with a supply day motion presented to the House. The supply day motion that has been presented to the House is only coming from a place of politics. I apologize to the member if my tone does not seem to be in line with what she thinks is respectful, but I do admit that I am extremely frustrated by the fact that the Bloc Québécois, although this might be a very important political issue for them, are using this opportunity just to try to create division and wedge issues within the province their own members are from. That is the reality of the situation, but I certainly agree with her that there are a lot of problems associated with colonization and what that led to. Let us have real, honest discussions about that. If that means moving away from the monarchy, let us talk about that in a productive and constructive way, not in a supply day motion like this. We all know that it is not going to produce the result that they are looking for.

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Mr. Sébastien Lemire (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, BQ)

Oct/25/22 4:17:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I just have one question for my colleague from Kingston and the Islands. What is more important and more of a priority than not being subject to another country and another nation?

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