SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 150 - Jan/31/23

Mr. Luc Berthold (Mégantic—L'Érable, CPC)

Jan/31/23 2:38:31 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we are against the millions of dollars being given to Liberal firms. After eight years in power, this Prime Minister is admitting that he will never be competent. The proof is that he awarded an 80-year contract for consulting services to the Liberal firm McKinsey. Imagine if a government had granted a contract like that in 1943, in the middle of the Second World War. There were no personal computers or cell phones back then, and no Internet either. How can this government predict that McKinsey will still be relevant in 2100? Could this be the Prime Minister's plan to ensure he gets a golden retirement?

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Hon. Pascale St-Onge (Minister of Sport and Minister responsible for the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec, Lib.)

Jan/31/23 2:39:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we are still waiting for the Conservatives to come up with solutions to help Canadians deal with the difficult times we are currently facing with rising interest rates. We know what the Conservatives' solutions are, because we have seen them in the past. It is “every person for themselves”, with cuts to all the programs that are there to help those who really need it. What we are saying to Canadians is that we will be there for them, especially with the Canada child benefit, which has helped lift 435,000 children out of poverty. Together we will get through this.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Jan/31/23 2:39:45 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, McKinsey is under contract with the government until 2100. It has an open contract for IT services. Just imagine. This government was unable to predict and manage the passport crisis last spring, but it can predict its IT needs until 2100. That is impressive. Does this mean that the federal government can award McKinsey contracts for any amount without a call for tenders until 2100 and that taxpayers and their children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren will have no say in the matter?

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Hon. Mona Fortier (President of the Treasury Board, Lib.)

Jan/31/23 2:41:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is important to set the record straight. It is not a contract. It is more of a procurement arrangement. That means there is no financial agreement. It is more of a pre-qualification. Hundreds of suppliers already have the same arrangement. It is a long-standing practice that helps the government save money and time. Our government will continue to uphold the highest standards of openness, transparency and financial accountability.

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Mr. Jean-Denis Garon (Mirabel, BQ)

Jan/31/23 2:41:48 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, 2100 is a long time from now. I am not sure which party will form the government, nor whether the parties here will still be around, but I do know two things: In 2100, Quebec will be a country and McKinsey will still have a contract or arrangement with Canada. This raises important questions. Regardless of which party governs here, regardless of who voters elect, McKinsey will still be there by virtue of a contract or an arrangement, as the minister says, without any clear mandate. Is that what we want in a democracy?

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Hon. Pablo Rodriguez (Minister of Canadian Heritage, Lib.)

Jan/31/23 2:42:29 p.m.
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My colleague is right, Mr. Speaker. We do not know what party will be in office in 2100, but it will certainly not be the Bloc Québécois, which is once again trying to stir up trouble and sow division. Do members know why Canada will still be united in 2100? It is because our strength is much greater than our differences. We can be different but stay united by communicating. That is where Canada's strength lies, despite what the Bloc Québécois wants to do.

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Mr. Jean-Denis Garon (Mirabel, BQ)

Jan/31/23 2:43:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the government is not very united with the public service, because this contract sends the public service a very bad message. An 80-year contract with McKinsey shows that the government does not recognize its own public service's expertise and that it does not intend to rely on that expertise in the long term. In other words, the government is telling us that it does not intend to develop expertise internally within the public service and that it would prefer to continue outsourcing the federal administration to the private sector. Is that acceptable?

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Hon. Mona Fortier (President of the Treasury Board, Lib.)

Jan/31/23 2:43:43 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we have just gone through some tough years with the pandemic. Public servants fulfilled their obligations. They helped us to get through it while ensuring that small and medium-sized businesses, workers and families were taken care of. We will continue to work with the public service and deliver on our priorities for Canadians, workers and businesses.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Jan/31/23 2:44:12 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is one more sleep until the Prime Minister's good friend Dominic Barton appears before the government operations committee. The Prime Minister has called Dominic Barton an “exceptional individual”. Dominic Barton's company fuelled the opioid crisis, advised Saudi autocrats on dissident crackdowns and helped Chinese state-owned companies build militarized islands in the South China Sea. Yes, Dominic Barton certainly is “exceptional”, but why does the Prime Minister do so much for his ethically deficient friends and so little for struggling Canadians?

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Hon. Helena Jaczek (Minister of Public Services and Procurement, Lib.)

Jan/31/23 2:44:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday, we are committed to ensuring that government contracts stand up to the highest standards. We ensure value for money. We ensure quality of services for Canadians. We only contract and procure professional services to complement our professional public services when there are unexpected workload fluctuations and when there is a need for specific expertise. Of course, I will elaborate further when I attend the committee next week.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Jan/31/23 2:45:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we continue to hear complete non-responses from the government. The Globe and Mail has reported that federal government contracts accounted for 10% of McKinsey gross revenues. I think McKinsey puts the gross into gross revenue. When Dominic Barton led McKinsey, they developed a plan to supercharge the opioid crisis that included rewarding pharmacists for overdose deaths. That is despicable. Why did the Prime Minister funnel over $100 million into this disgusting company?

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jan/31/23 2:46:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, in all things, the government ensures that the contracts it enters into are efficacious and get good value for money and ensure we deliver services to Canadians. The questions that are being posed are fair. We will get an opportunity in committee to be exhaustive and get answers. However, understand that Canada has a reputation around the world for the quality of the contracts it enters into. That is absolutely something we are committed to continue to ensure we get value for money for Canadians.

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Mrs. Kelly Block (Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, CPC)

Jan/31/23 2:46:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, after eight years under the Prime Minister, Canadians have never had it so bad, while Liberal lobbyists and high-priced consultants have had it so good. The amount that the government has paid to McKinsey, formerly led by a personal friend of the Prime Minister, Dominic Barton, has gradually grown from $50 million to over $100 million. While Canadians are struggling, Liberal insiders are flourishing. Will the Prime Minister tell us the real amount his government has paid to McKinsey?

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jan/31/23 2:47:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have to take exception to this notion that Canadians have never done worse, and talking down our economy. I would point out that when the members opposite, the Conservatives, were in power, the economy had 1.5 million less jobs; there were over a million and a half more people in poverty; Canada was at the bottom of the G7 across about every single indicator and, in fact, had the worst growth rate in terms of GDP of any government since 1946. Next year, Canada will be number two, as projected by the IMF, in GDP growth. When Conservatives talk down our economy, they should be careful they do not get reflected back to their own record.

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Mrs. Stephanie Kusie (Calgary Midnapore, CPC)

Jan/31/23 2:47:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, after eight years of the Liberal government, inflation is at a 40-year high as a result of the government's inflationary spending. The government has handed over $100 million in contracts to McKinsey & Company, with one contract not sunsetting until the year 2100. While Canadians have never—

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The Speaker

Jan/31/23 2:48:15 p.m.
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I need to interrupt for a second. There seems to be an issue with the interpretation. The interpretation is now functioning. I would ask the hon. member for Calgary Midnapore to take it from the top, please.

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Mr. Charlie Angus

Jan/31/23 2:48:42 p.m.
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Make it more comprehensible this time.

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Mrs. Stephanie Kusie

Jan/31/23 2:48:42 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, after eight years of the Liberal government, inflation is at a 40-year high as a result of the government's inflationary spending. The government has handed over $100 million in contracts to McKinsey & Company, with one contract not sunsetting until the year 2100. While Canadians have never had it so bad, Liberal insiders and consultants have never had it so good. Why does the Prime Minister and the government not come clean and tell us how much they promised Dominic Barton and McKinsey & Company?

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Hon. Sean Fraser (Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, Lib.)

Jan/31/23 2:49:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what I am observing today is an interesting trend where the Conservatives are trying to create a bogeyman to distract from the fact that we are working hard to make sure that families that are struggling get the supports they need to do well during challenging times. I am beginning to believe that the Conservatives actually view it to be in their interest to continue to have Canadians experience problems because they never introduce solutions. On this side of the House, we are going to continue to make investments that are going to reduce costs for child care, that are going to reduce costs for dental care, that are going to provide supports to low-income renters. With or without them, we will do what is necessary to make sure that people can feed their kids and keep a roof over the heads during difficult times across Canada and around the world.

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Mr. Matthew Green (Hamilton Centre, NDP)

Jan/31/23 2:49:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is not just the Conservatives who have questions. The New Democrats have questions too, and it is not just about McKinsey. While the Liberals have awarded $160 million to McKinsey with this 100-year deal, companies such as McKinsey and Deloitte, which has ten times the amount of money, along with KPMG, are raking in billions of taxpayer dollars without accountability or transparency. Canadians deserve to know exactly who is making decisions for the government, how much they are getting paid and to whom in the Liberal government they are connected. Will the government commit to extending the review to include all of its outsourcing contracts?

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