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Feb/2/23 1:17:33 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is very interesting that my colleague pulls out a statistic. I have not seen that particular one, but I can say that just within the last few days my local newspaper, the Peace Arch News, has blasted headlines about the increase in property crime in White Rock and Surrey with respect to how bad it is and how victimized the community is feeling. We are actually here to talk about bail reform and repeat violent offenders, not necessarily property crime. However, if one talks to any Canadian on any street in my communities in B.C., they will say both are up and that this makes them feel insecure and unsafe.

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Mr. Sébastien Lemire (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, BQ)

Feb/2/23 1:18:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I realize that the events mentioned by the Conservatives today are deplorable. I wonder if my colleague could speak about young offenders. What should we do with our youth? It seems to me that rehabilitation, which helps young people understand the consequences of their actions, always yields better results than punishment and imprisonment, especially in the case of youth. I would like to know what my colleague would propose for young offenders.

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Feb/2/23 1:18:49 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as we have already said and, in fact, the leader said today, we are not interested in long prison sentences for young offenders who maybe make a mistake and want to turn their lives around, or people addicted to drugs who really want to free their lives from the travails of addiction. We are talking about violent repeat offenders. When it comes to our young people, we hope they will make better choices and we want to help them do that through rehabilitation programs, support and drug addiction programs and recovery, something on which not enough money, investment or time has been spent by the current Liberal government.

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Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP)

Feb/2/23 1:19:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am hoping to find some consensus at least from today, which I think we can get on the border, with regard to our customs officers. There has been a previous problem with regard to their collective agreements. Several governments have finally gotten through a process, sometimes taking three to four years to get collective agreements. To the government's credit right now, there actually is a collective agreement in place that has been settled for the moment. They are going back to negotiations soon. I wonder what the Conservative Party's position is with regard to whether there has been undertraining of CBSA officers during COVID, and also moving away from boots on the ground. There have been cuts in the past. Would the Conservatives at least agree there should be more resources and supports? Would they support a bipartisan approach to increasing CBSA officers, facilities, structures and equipment to actually stop guns from getting smuggled into Canada?

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Feb/2/23 1:20:27 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as someone who represents a border community with two border crossings, I am well aware of some of the issues at the border and with CBSA. We absolutely need to put, again, time, attention and investment into the training and support for our CBSA officers. They are often dealing with very difficult situations. They come upon them very quickly as people go to cross the border and perhaps are smuggling. We know that the vast majority of violent crime using firearms in Canada is effected with smuggled weapons, normally coming up from the United States. We have tried to bring in even some private members' bills on this, which have been rejected by the House. Again, I agree with a bipartisan approach. Let us get on it. Let us make our borders safe and secure.

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Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus (Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, CPC)

Feb/2/23 1:21:31 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I rise today to speak to our motion, which is very important. I will begin by saying that I have been here for eight years, the same amount of time that this Liberal government has been in power. Under this Prime Minister's reign—and I say “reign” because the Prime Minister behaves like a king who is not accountable to anyone, whether the decisions are good or bad—it has become clear that this government and this Prime Minister are very sympathetic to criminals. This is evidenced by several decisions that have been made and several legislative changes that have been introduced over the past eight years. Whether those decisions are in relation to prisons, Bill C-75 or Bill C-5, we find that they are always oriented towards helping criminals, not victims. In the eight years since the Liberal government came to power, we have seen an increase in crime with all these legislative changes that favour crime. This is particularly true when it comes to bail. I remember the debates we had on Bill C‑75 quite clearly. The Conservative Party was very critical of what was proposed in that bill, because it made no sense. Today, four years later, we see the result. I want to make it clear to my colleagues on the Liberal side who are here, and even to my colleagues from the Bloc who endorsed Bill C‑75 at the time but who may have changed their minds by now, that today's motion is very specific. We are asking the government to urgently review certain elements of Bill C‑75. In particular, we want to review the provisions regarding criminals who use firearms and who, unfortunately, because of Bill C‑75, are able to obtain bail too easily. We had evidence of this just before Christmas, when a Toronto police officer was murdered on his first day working solo. This young police officer was murdered by a repeat offender who should never have been released on bail. This is the most serious type of crime in Canada right now. We are not here today to table a sweeping motion to revamp Bill C-75 in its entirety. We want to target this problem specifically, as requested by all the premiers of all the provinces and territories of Canada, as requested by the police associations, and as requested on January 23 by Pierre Brochet, president of the Quebec association of police chiefs. He urged the government to change the way it deals with the worst criminals of all, repeat offenders, who commit violent crimes over and over again. We are seeing that now. British Columbia has published reports. My colleagues love talking about reports, so let me point out that a report from British Columbia said that 40 offenders were arrested 6,000 times in just one year. That is mind-boggling. The same individual could be arrested and released three times in the same day. That is hard for anyone to understand, but it is one of the harmful effects of Bill C‑75, and that is what we want to fix. We want to fix this very specific problem. Today's motion is aimed at that. Earlier, I heard my Bloc colleague speak about young offenders. We are not talking about that. All we want to do is close the loophole in Bill C-75 regarding violent criminals, those who commit dangerous offences over and over day after day and got a 28-year-old police officer killed just before Christmas. When we talk about lax Liberal policies, the facts speak for themselves. All the changes that have been made over the last eight years have led to the 32% increase in crime we are seeing these days. There has also been a 92% increase in murders committed by street gangs. Why is that happening, if not because, as I said at the start, criminals are no longer afraid? Criminals are thumbing their noses at the justice system. In the streets of Montreal, criminals were eagerly waiting for Bill C-5 to be passed. I hear my Liberal colleague on the other side saying “come on”. I would invite him to go meet with—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Feb/2/23 1:26:28 p.m.
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It is not yet time for questions and comments. I would ask hon. members to wait until the appropriate time. The hon. member for Charlesbourg—Haute‑Saint‑Charles.

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Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus

Feb/2/23 1:26:49 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, things always get emotional when we talk about crime, but facts are facts. The streets of Montreal would be safer had Bill C-5 not been passed, for example. Last week, we saw one of the harmful effects of Bill C‑5, which was passed before Christmas. An individual who committed aggravated sexual assault eight years ago was sentenced last week. There were many delays related to the court process, and Bill C‑5 was passed in the midst of all that. The sentence that the judge handed down was 20 months to be served in the community, whereas, in the past, that individual would have been jailed. Seeing what the judge had done, the Crown prosecutor said that the Prime Minister and the Minister of Justice had a lot to answer for to the victims. Ever since this government took office eight years ago, I have been astounded by its total lack of sympathy for victims. The Canadian Victims Bill of Rights was enacted during the Conservative era. My colleague, Senator Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu, then prime minister Stephen Harper, then minister of justice Peter MacKay, and Steven Blaney, who was also a minister, created the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights as a way to give victims of crime the right to be protected and informed. We know victims have been totally overlooked in recent years. Criminals are laughing at the justice system because they know that justice is much weaker now and they can commit crimes over and over without fear of prison time. It is victims who are living in fear, too scared to even file a complaint anymore because they know that nothing will come of it. The Liberals can say what they want, but facts are facts. On this day of debate on our motion, we are not addressing the problem in a partisan way at all. When the premiers of all 13 provinces and territories ask for exactly the same thing and the police associations in Canada all ask for exactly the same thing, I would say it is because there is a problem. I hope my colleagues in the Bloc Québécois will understand the approach we are taking today. As I said earlier, if anyone reads our motion carefully, they will clearly see that we are specifically targeting firearms offences, among others. Say a criminal who commits an offence and is charged with a firearms offence is able to get parole easily and goes on to commit another firearms offence. If we asked Canadians if they thought that was okay, they would all say no. One of the problems with Bill C-75 is that it allows criminals to be released too easily. That is what we want to be fixed. We are asking that the situation that was created by passing Bill C‑75 be resolved to prevent recurring crimes. As I said earlier, in British Columbia, 40 individuals were arrested 6,000 times in one year. That is unbelievable. In Canada, the group we are targeting amounts to a few hundred individuals. We are talking about 1,000 criminals at most. We are not talking about applying a law to every person in Canada who is facing any kind of charges. Rather, we are focusing specifically on the problem of criminals who commit firearms offences and dangerous repeat offenders. That is all we want, and we would like the Liberal government to show some understanding. After eight years, this Liberal government needs to understand that we need more rules and that what we are talking about right now is a very valid issue. As I said, it is not a partisan issue when 13 provincial and territorial premiers from all parties are saying the same thing. These premiers are Liberals, Conservatives and New Democrats. I think it is perfectly reasonable.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Feb/2/23 1:31:05 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I made reference to a specific quote I put to the member before. It was coming from Statistics Canada, which says, “Following a large decrease in 2020, the property crime rate was the lowest it has been dating back to 1965.” In fact, if we take a look at the murder rates, the most serious of crimes out there, we can talk about the first three years of Harper. There were 597, 614 and 611 homicides, compared to the first three years of this administration, when there were 611, 616 and 667. If we listen to the Conservatives, one would think that everything is broken, that everything is falling apart, that people should be aware that crime is on the streets and that it is rampant, yet the facts, the reality, do not reflect what it is that the Conservatives are preaching. Why is the Conservative Party using such an important issue, when one talks about victims and so forth, in order to raise money?

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Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus

Feb/2/23 1:32:11 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague is doing his job of trying to defend the indefensible. Thirteen premiers are calling for the same thing we are, as are all the associations representing the police officers who are out on the street, working to protect citizens across Canada. These people are not asking for legislative reform for nothing. They see that the status quo is not working. Our motion targets the most dangerous criminals and violent repeat offenders. Why do the Liberals insist on allowing these people to go free so easily? I cannot understand it.

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Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, BQ)

Feb/2/23 1:32:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague. I admire him greatly, but I do not agree with what he is saying. Bill C‑75 was not perfect. We all agree on that, on both sides of the House. There are some improvements to be made. I would like my colleague's opinion on the remarks made by Carolyn Yule, a sociology and anthropology professor who studies bail. She says that there is no evidence to suggest that a tough-on-crime approach to bail would improve public safety. Can we please trust these academics?

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Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus

Feb/2/23 1:33:42 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my Bloc Québécois colleague started by clearly stating that Bill C‑75 was not perfect. That is precisely what we are talking about today. We want to improve Bill C‑75 as passed, by making changes to it. My colleague talked about an academic, but we are not questioning all grounds for bail. We want to make it clear today that we are targeting violent criminals, criminals who use firearms. We are not asking to overhaul the entirety of Bill C‑75 as passed, although we should. We are being specific. We are targeting one particular aspect. We do not want to completely revamp what was passed, and they need to stop thinking that way. We want to take focused action in the name of the overall safety of all Canadians.

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Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP)

Feb/2/23 1:34:40 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to ask my colleague why the Conservatives left out illegal firearms and the border in this motion. It is quite shocking, frankly, given the fact we have such a dominance of this type of activity creating victims and problems in our country. I believe there is consensus in trying to work on this problem, maybe not how to get to it, but it is rather shocking the Conservatives did not do that, especially given that Stephen Harper, as the member referenced earlier, his former leader, actually cut the integrated system teams we had. These were men and women who did some of the proactive work to keep guns out and who worked with U.S. law enforcement to keep our streets safe. Why do the Conservatives not at least address what their failings were in the past by including it here and in the future?

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Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus

Feb/2/23 1:35:21 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, indeed, the issue at the border is a major one. We have raised it many times. The government needs to put far more effort into controlling illegal weapons trafficking at the borders. These weapons are being used by criminals on the streets of Montreal, Toronto and all over Canada. We did not include it in the motion today because we are specifically targeting Bill C-75 and the fact that Bill C-5 is harmful. However, the problem of weapons trafficking at the borders is indeed a priority issue. I hope the government will speed things up.

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Mr. Majid Jowhari (Richmond Hill, Lib.)

Feb/2/23 1:36:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, at the outset, I would like to inform the House that I will be sharing my time with the member for Sudbury. I am thankful for the opportunity to join today's debate relating to the criminal justice system, focusing on bail and repeat violent offenders. I would like to thank the hon. member for Fundy Royal for his motion and his long-standing commitment to public safety. His motion provides me with an opportunity to discuss recent reforms to the Criminal Code, specifically former Bill C-75, and reflect on what is happening in my community and what we are doing in Richmond Hill. Bill C-75 was introduced on March 29, 2018, in the House of Commons and subsequently received royal assent on June 21, 2019. The changes enacted by the bill came fully into force in December 2019. While the reforms were enacted principally to address delays and criminal justice system efficiencies related to the concerns raised by the Supreme Court of Canada in its 2016 Jordan decision and 2017 Cody decision, they also modernized and streamlined Canada's bail regime. These reforms represented the most significant changes to Canada's bail regime since the Bail Reform Act of 1972. Bill C-75 also reflected the reasoning of Canada's top court in the 2017 Antic decision. It was a product of significant consultations with the provinces and territories. It was a thoughtful and broad-ranging reform. With respect to the bail amendments in Bill C-75, they were designed to specifically streamline the bail process by increasing the types of conditions police can impose on accused in order to avoid sending unnecessary cases to court and to reduce the need for unnecessary bail hearings, and by no means were they designed to reduce the conditions assigned during bail; codify a principle of restraint to ensure that release at the earliest opportunity is favoured over detention when appropriate, and I will go into detail on that later; provide guidance so the bail conditions imposed are reasonable, relevant to the offence and necessary to ensure public safety; and finally, require that the circumstances of indigenous accused and of accused from vulnerable populations be considered at bail to better address the disproportionate impact that the bail system has on these populations. My colleagues suggest that Bill C-75 has broken Canada's bail system, that its reform forces judges to release violent repeat offenders back onto the street, and that receiving bail is easier now than ever for violent repeat offenders. By no means does the data support this. These claims are, at best, ill-informed and, at worst, very misleading. We have the data to prove that. In the past 15 years, more than half of the admissions to adult provincial and territorial facilities were for remands to await trial instead of admissions to sentenced custody. A lot of people were waiting to be sentenced or were waiting to be heard. According to Statistics Canada, the proportion of admissions to remand has increased from 54% in 2006-07 to 67% in 2020-21, despite a constant decrease in the number of adult admissions during the same period. This increase in the remand population has disproportionately affected indigenous people and persons from vulnerable populations. As a result, Bill C-75 enacted in the Criminal Code a requirement that the circumstances of indigenous accused and of accused from vulnerable populations be considered at bail in order to address the disproportionate impact that the bail system has on these populations. The amendments in the bill sought to reduce the imposition of bail conditions that are unreasonable, irrelevant and unnecessary, which was also a codification of the rules developed by the Supreme Court of Canada. However, the criteria for when accused persons can be released by police or justices were not changed. The law remains clear that detention of an accused person is justified if it is necessary to protect the safety of the public. We hear so often about the repeat offenders. It is in the hands of the justice system to ensure that it has the tools to be able to detain them. We have not changed that. Moreover, police are required to detain an accused person if there is a risk of reoffending. The Bill C-75 amendments significantly expand protection for victims of intimate partner violence, particularly within the bail regime. The bill created a definition of “intimate partner” that applies throughout the Criminal Code to clarify that it includes a current or former spouse, common-law partner and dating partner. It also created a reverse onus provision in the Criminal Code for an accused person charged with an intimate violence offence if the accused has an prior conviction for an offence involving violence against an intimate partner. This reverse onus applies regardless of whether it is the same partner, a former partner or a dating partner. What this means is that the presumption that the accused should be released pending trial no longer applies. The accused, not the prosecutor, would have to justify their release to the court. All the tools needed to prevent recidivism are there. The change to impose a reverse onus reflects what we know about the heightened risk to safety that victims of intimate partner violence face. It also signals to bail court the seriousness of the alleged offences, as well as the increased risk of reoffending in this context. Bill C-75 also added two new factors a judge must consider before making an order to release or detain an accused person. First, in an important change, bail courts now have to consider an accused's criminal record, something that may have occurred but was not mandated by the legislation. Second, the court needs to consider whether an accused has ever been charged with an offence that involved violence against an intimate partner. These two factors help ensure that courts are better informed and have a more a complete picture of prior history of violence that could threaten the safety of a victim or the public at large. As a result of these changes, bail courts are now required to take these factors into account when making a number of different possible bail-related determinations, including the decision to impose an order not to communicate with a particular victim, witness or other person, a detention order or an order to release the accused on bail. If the accused is to be released on bail, the court would have to consider whether the alleged offence was against an intimate partner in determining whether bail conditions are necessary and, if so, what type of conditions are appropriate, such as a condition prohibiting contact with the victim. Requiring bail courts to consider the safety of intimate partners before releasing an accused on bail affords increased protection to victims of intimate partner violence. Bill C-75 made changes to the bail system that respond to guidance on bail-related charter rights of the accused as found in the decisions of the Supreme Court of Canada. These changes aimed to help address the overrepresentation of indigenous people and vulnerable populations in the criminal justice system, while also increasing the efficiency of the bail system. I emphasize that Bill C-75 did not change how the bail system should respond to violent or repeat offending, and it made some admirable changes to bail for those charged with offences relating to intimate partner violence. In closing, contrary to the hon. member's suggestion, Bill C-75 has strengthened our bail system and helped protect victims of intimate partner violence.

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Mr. Alex Ruff (Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, CPC)

Feb/2/23 1:45:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member for Richmond Hill gave us a very long overview of what the bill is intended to do and what Bill C-75 is supposed to do. However, I want to share some facts. In my riding alone, in December of this past year, in a drive-by shooting, one of the charges was possession of a firearm contrary to a probation order. In December as well, a man was attacked with a hammer and, again, there were several charges, including several counts of breach of probation. In November, a man and a woman were arrested on numerous drug charges, but again the man was charged with additional two counts of a breach of a weapons prohibition. There was another one in my riding, with multiple agencies in a drug bust, where again charges were tied to a prohibition order. If this bill is so good and we do not need bail reform, why do the stats show that it is not working and we desperately need changes to our bail system?

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Mr. Majid Jowhari

Feb/2/23 1:46:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we are facing a similar situation in Richmond Hill. However, I want to draw a distinction between what the bill would enable, what it would prohibit and what it would enact versus its execution, which is in the hands of the provinces and police forces. Therefore, it is in the hands of the judge to make that determination. The laws are there to support the judge, the justice system and the police to have the proper tools to be able to prevent that. I definitely agree that we should look into restricting firearms coming into Canada. That is an area I think we need to make more investment in. We also need to work with the police force much more closely to ensure that police have the resources to deal with it on the ground.

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Mr. Charlie Angus (Timmins—James Bay, NDP)

Feb/2/23 1:48:03 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the issue of dealing with crime is that we actually need to take the evidence, we need to have the witnesses and we need to put them together in a way that makes sure we actually get the results the public trusts us to get. This is our job as legislators, so I am very pleased that the justice committee agreed to look at bail reform and the serious issues that have arisen from the examples of violence. The horrific killing of that young police officer in Ontario shocked us all; it should never have been allowed to happen. However, this issue is very different from what the Conservatives are doing, which is having a motion, throwing everything but the kitchen sink into it and demanding that we stand up in the House today and rewrite the whole law without the evidence and without doing the work. I have been here long enough to remember the Harper government days when every one of the Conservatives' crime bills got tossed, with more recalls than the Ford Pinto, because they were not doing the job right. I would like to ask my hon. colleague about doing this right on bail reform.

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Mr. Majid Jowhari

Feb/2/23 1:49:10 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for actually highlighting that the justice committee is looking at this, because this is a real issue. This is what our communities are dealing with, and it is at the forefront for many parents and many community members. There is a right way of doing things, and there is a shortcut. I do not believe we need the shortcut. That is why it is great that it is going to the justice committee. It is being looked at. Witnesses are going to be called. Data is going to be presented, and the amendments that are going to be proposed, if any, will be amendments that are going to be well represented, well researched, scientific and based on data.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Feb/2/23 1:49:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will repeat the question I asked earlier. I think everyone agrees on the fact that the provisions of Bill C-75 need to be looked at and improved. That being said, no one is born violent. That tendency develops over time. Without support from our social services, which have been undermined as a result of 30 years of health transfer deficits, violence may increase. I would like to know whether the government will increase health transfers to 35%.

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