SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 162 - Feb/16/23

Feb/16/23 3:40:15 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague talked about funding for health care. We all know that the provinces were calling for $28 billion per year, but the government only put $4.4 billion per year on the table. Therefore, the government is giving the provinces only $1 for every $7 they asked for. I have two questions for my colleague. Does she think that $1 out of every $7 the provinces were calling for is enough? I would like her to explain why she thinks that the provinces' initial requests were unreasonable.

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Ms. Arielle Kayabaga

Feb/16/23 3:40:47 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think that a health care system that works for all Canadians is a good system. We had the opportunity to hear from all of the provincial leaders, those from Quebec, Ontario and all over. These discussions are ongoing. We want to invest in a health care system that works for everyone. That is why even the provincial leaders decided to come to the table and agreed to work with us. It is important that we continue to support everyone in the country with a health care system that works for all Canadians, including Quebeckers.

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Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Feb/16/23 3:41:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member for London West is a powerful advocate for mental health. I wonder if she could clarify this. The governing party had previously committed to a $4.5-billion dedicated mental health fund. Is that still a commitment from the governing party, in light of the announcement we heard a few weeks ago?

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Ms. Arielle Kayabaga

Feb/16/23 3:41:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for mentioning the mental health advocacy that I continue to do, for people in not only London West but also across the country. I believe that supporting the mental health and well-being of Canadians, especially young Canadians, is really important. I also just talked about how important it is to support the providers as well, and to give resources to care providers so they have the support they need to be able to continue to do that work. That is where a government—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Feb/16/23 3:42:32 p.m.
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Resuming debate, the hon. member for Burnaby South.

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Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP)

Feb/16/23 3:42:37 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Vancouver East. New Democrats have a vision for health care. We believe that health care should be there for people when they need it, that hospitals should be properly staffed and that workers always have the time to listen and to care for patients. We believe that nurses, doctors and frontline health care workers should be respected, and we should have enough of them so that we do not have to wait. New Democrats and I believe that people should get surgery as soon as they need it and not just when they can afford it. We believe that no one should have to avoid going to a doctor because they cannot afford to pay for it out-of-pocket. The reality is that is not how things are in this country. After seven years under the Prime Minister, health care is certainly struggling. Parents are worried about the state of health care. They are anxious to leave their homes with their little ones, because they are worried they will not be able to be seen in time if they get sick. People are waiting for hours in crowded emergency rooms. They are waiting so long for surgery that they are losing their quality of life. There are horrible examples of private companies exploiting the desperation of Canadians. Canadian Surgery Solutions is draining surgeons out of hospitals and is taking advantage of people's pain by charging them $30,000 per surgery. Maple, a corporation owned by Loblaws, has poached doctors out of family practices so they can charge people up to $70 for a visit with a family doctor. Nothing in the world is more important to us all than the health of our children and our loved ones. While people are waiting for hours in pain, the Prime Minister is letting us fend for ourselves. While health care workers are exhausted and working endless hours of overtime, while they are leaving the profession in droves, the Liberals have offered a health care accord that does not allow an increase in the number of positions. While cash-for-care corporations, like Canadian Surgery Solutions and Maple, charge people for health care and bleed nurses and doctors out of our public system, the Liberal government turns its back and pretends not to see. In 2021, it was a very different story. The Prime Minister campaigned against for-profit care and said that it would threaten our public health care system. He warned that voting for the Conservatives would open up the door to more for-profit care, and that would be a problem, because the bottom line would matter more than patient care. However, time and time again the Prime Minister says one thing and then does the opposite. He flip-flops. He breaks his promises. Conservative premiers are now on a mission to privatize and monetize our Canadian health care system, and the Prime Minister is giving it the green light. He says it is a good thing to do. He flip-flopped so fast that his own party members did not get the updated talking points. Let me quote a couple of Liberal MPs. The Liberal MP for Don Valley East said, “Doug Ford's push for private health care is so wrong. It brings USA style healthcare to Canada by putting those who can pay at the front of the line.” The Liberal MP for Humber River—Black Creek said, “this is absolutely erosion of our health-care system as we know it. And the introduction of privatization is where we're going.... If we don't have enough nurses, and doctors today, you're going to have even less in the public system.” In fact, the former health minister of the Liberal government, Jane Philpott, said that what is happening right now is a clear “violation to the Canada Health Act.” What is the Prime Minister doing about this clear violation of the Canada Health Act? What is the Liberal government doing? They are doing nothing. When the Prime Minister had a chance to stand up for health care, he stood down. It is no surprise that, true to form, the Conservatives are absolutely for this for-profit scheme. They believe in starving our health care system of the appropriate funding to bring in the for-profit vultures to exploit our health care system and to exploit the desperation of Canadians. The Conservative leader and the Conservative premiers are taking a page directly out of the same old Tory playbook: underfund public services, starve our public health care system, then claim it is broken all of a sudden and hand it over to the private sector. We are at a watershed moment in Canadian health care. People are facing painfully long wait times in emergency rooms and to receive surgeries, and so many Canadians cannot find a family doctor, while the Prime Minister pretends this is okay. He does that, because for his friends it is okay. Meanwhile, the Conservative leader is cheering it on and saying to bring in more for-profit care, starve our public system and hurt people. The Conservative leader rages, because he wants to tear it all down. It is his goal to tear down our health care system. He says it is broken. Tear it down and bring in even more for-profit care. The truth is that our health care system is getting worse. However, it does not have to be this way. This is the result of choices. We can choose differently. We can invest in our health care system and fund more frontline health care workers, like nurses and doctors, and turn things around. We can rebuild a world-class public universal health care system. We have a choice. We can stop the for-profit system from cannibalizing our hospital workers and our emergency room workers, or we can allow the American-style for-profit U.S. private health care system to flourish. We can staff up our hospitals, or we can allow corporations to staff up their companies. We believe, very clearly, that we need to invest in people so that the care we need is there for us when we need it, not when we can afford it. We can train more nurses and more doctors here in Canada. We can respect and hire workers. We can recruit them. We can add nurses to every shift so they are not run off their feet. We can pay health care workers what they deserve. We can give licences to practise to health care workers who trained abroad, are already here and are ready to get to work. We can invest in improving home care and long-term care so that our parents and grandparents do not spend months in hospital beds waiting for a spot. Finally, we can invest in mental health so that people can get the care and treatment they need. Every member of Parliament now has a choice to make. They can choose where they stand. New Democrats know where we stand: We stand with families who are worried that if they rush into the ER, they are not going to have a doctor or nurse to look after their baby right away. We stand with everyone who needs a family doctor and the people who wait at clinics for hours and hours just to get their prescriptions filled. We stand with frontline health care workers, people who deserve better workloads, a better work-life balance and more respect. We stand with everyone waiting for surgery. These people need more health care workers. They do not need more for-profit companies cannibalizing the workers from our hospital system. They need us to rebuild and expand public hospitals, family health teams, long-term care and home care. What the New Democratic Party would do differently right now is work with the provinces to train and hire more nurses, doctors and primary health care providers. We would work with the provinces to recognize the credentials of nurses, doctors and other health professionals that have studied and worked in other countries. We would be a better partner in stabilizing health care, cutting wait times and making sure care is there for people when they need it. I urge all members of the House of Commons to think of the families in their communities, vote in support of this motion and defend our universal public health care system.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate), Lib.)

Feb/16/23 3:52:03 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the reality of the situation is that the NDP have not used the Prime Minister's words in a true context in this motion. I do not think anybody in this House would disagree with the idea that we should be innovative when it comes to our health care system. It is the NDP who have taken the leap to assume that the word “innovative” meant privatizing health care. According to the member's speech, the Prime Minister said it was a good thing to do. The Prime Minister never said this in terms of privatizing health care and going down the road that has been suggested by the provincial government in Ontario. The member said that other members should vote for this. How can he expect us to vote for something when he has clearly taken the words of the Prime Minister out of context in here?

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Mr. Jagmeet Singh

Feb/16/23 3:53:13 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, let us look over the facts. We have some clear evidence in front of us. When the Prime Minister was asked directly about Doug Ford's plan to increase for-profit care, he called it “innovation”. He gave it the green light. Let us go even further. When Premier Doug Ford was asked about whether the issue of for-profit care was even raised, Doug Ford's response was no, that it did not come up at all in conversation. It is clear through action and words that the Prime Minister is green-lighting for-profit care. However, it does not have to be this way. The government can choose to say that it was a mistake; it had flip-flopped but will flip-flop back the right way now to defend public health care. Here is the chance for the members of this House to make clear where they stand. Do they defend public health care or are they for for-profit delivery of care?

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Mr. John Brassard (Barrie—Innisfil, CPC)

Feb/16/23 3:54:08 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I recall what happened a year ago. I was opposition House leader when the coalition agreement came into effect between the NDP and the Liberals. It actually gave the NDP a lot of power. They could use this power right now if the leader of the NDP simply walked up to the third floor, to the Prime Minister's office, and said that he wanted this type of stuff to happen. Instead, he spends 10 minutes in this House railing against the Liberals, Conservatives and provincial premiers. If the leader of the NDP had any course of action at all, why does he not rip up the agreement that he has with the Liberals, force an election and let Canadians decide which health care vision is best for this country? They will decide: NDP, Conservative or Liberal. Let us do this. The member could rip up the agreement and let Canadians decide.

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Mr. Jagmeet Singh

Feb/16/23 3:55:04 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is very interesting that the Conservatives are talking about health care. We have not heard them say anything about health care for a number of weeks, and then their leader jumps in to say that they absolutely agree with the Liberal plan, which is not surprising because they believe in private care. What we have done in this minority government as a fourth party is interesting. Looking at what we have delivered for Canadians, we doubled the GST rebate, putting nearly $500 in the pockets of 10 million Canadians. We delivered dental care for half a million kids across this country, and we delivered rental supports for nearly two million Canadians. We made that happen. I am wondering what the Conservatives can point to. What did they deliver for Canadians in this difficult time? What did they deliver for Canadians in the pandemic? The reality is that they have done nothing. The official opposition of this country has done nothing to make people's lives better in what have been the most unprecedented, challenging times for Canadians. It is unbelievable.

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Mr. Mario Simard (Jonquière, BQ)

Feb/16/23 3:56:01 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I agree with the NDP leader that the solution for improving our health care system is not privatization. However, it is not predatory federalism either. It is not up to the federal government to dictate standards for managing the health care system. The only solution is to fight against the scourge of federalism, or the fiscal imbalance. If the NDP leader is serious, what he can do is tell the federal government that he will not support its budget because it does not invest enough money in health. I am sure he would have had much more support in the House today if he had moved a motion along those lines, instead of trying to interfere in jurisdictions that do not belong to the federal government, but to the provinces.

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Mr. Jagmeet Singh

Feb/16/23 3:56:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have spoken to Quebeckers who have run into major challenges with the health care system. The interesting thing is that when they speak about the challenges and the problem, they never talk about jurisdictions. They talk about the fact that they want all levels of government to resolve the problems with our health care system in Montreal, Quebec City and all the provinces. They told me that we must try to find solutions. That is exactly what we are going to do. We are going to use our power to find solutions and help people.

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Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP)

Feb/16/23 3:57:29 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am delighted to debate this very important motion. We are talking about health care and health care delivery. One of the things that Canadians cherish is our universal public health care system. I will tell members a story of my own history. Our family immigrated here to Canada. At that time, when my parents got the green light to come to Canada, they also got the green light to go to the United States as well. They made the ultimate decision to come to Canada. Why did they make that decision? It is because Canada has universal public health care. That is the reason why so many immigrants choose to come to Canada and make Canada their adopted home. I will tell members how important that was in our case. I come from a family of eight. We are not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. There are six children within our family. Living in Hong Kong, my parents knew that there was no way they would be able to continue to raise a family with six children. I, particularly, was a sickly kid. I was sick constantly. Every typhoon season, I swear, I had bronchitis. My mom would be worried sick, and she would be carrying me on her back to take me to the hospital. She would constantly take me to visit the doctors, to get medication, to get the help that I needed. They knew, my parents knew, that this was not sustainable. They could not afford it. When they moved to Canada, the one thing that saved our lives, that saved my life, was that access to health care. My parents were making minimum wage. In fact, my mom, when we first came, made $10 a day as a farm worker to support a family of eight. That is how we survived. Going to see a doctor was never a worry because it was free. That is what makes Canada so great. What are we talking about now today? We are talking about premiers across the country, Conservative premiers, who want to privatize health care, who want to create a two-tier system, to say to people that, if one has money, one can access health care, get first in line and cut the queue. What is wrong with that picture? It is not the Canada we envision, that we choose to come to, yet we have a Prime Minister who flip-flopped on his perspective. He was clear to say, in the 2021 election, that he would not support two-tier medicine and that he would not support for-profit health care. He did not say that this was what he was going to do when he got into government, that he would see it as “innovation”. What has happened? My goodness, in 2023, he has flip-flopped. Now he is saying that what Doug Ford's strategy to go forward to deliver health care for Ontario, a move in the direction of privatizing health care and expanding private clinics, is innovative. The Prime Minister said that this was innovative. There is nothing innovative about that. That is putting people in a situation where they cannot access health care when they need it or where they need it. When we talk about health care, what are we talking about exactly? It is about our well-being, every fibre of who we are and how we exist. If we do not have health, we have nothing. That is why we must stand to protect public universal health care against this erosion that these Conservative premiers, Doug Ford, Danielle Smith, I can go on, want. All of these Conservative premiers are wanting to head down that road. It is the wrong direction. It is not what Canadians want. If we look at our Conservative colleagues, where are they? Well, they want to go down that path exactly. Why? It is because it benefits their friends. If we look at the information, even on an economic basis, it makes zero sense to do private health care expansion. It actually costs the system more money. Not just for the individual, but it costs all of us more money. It is an erosion of our collective well-being. In British Columbia, we have walked down this path before. We had Dr. Brian Day with the expansion of Cambie clinic. They wanted to expand it. They wanted to go in the direction of private health care clinics for surgeries and other health care services. The matter was brought to the court and the court ruled that it was an erosion of Canada's public health care system and that it would cost the system more money. It was a violation of the Canada Health Act, and it was struck down. The court decision did not allow the Cambie clinic to proceed. It went all the way to the Supreme Court on a constitutional argument. The court refused to hear it and said it was a no go. Did anybody learn from that? No. Premiers have lined up, and they are going down that track to say we need to privatize health care, which will hurt Canadians, knowing that right now, more than anything, we need to put every effort into our communities to support people. We need to support people in our communities, support our health care workers and expand the public health care system. We are not doing that. The Conservatives are not going down that track. They are looking to see how we can expand private health care. The Prime Minister is so disappointing. It is so disappointing for him not to stand up and say, “No, that is not innovation. This is not the track that we are going to go down. We are going to fight tooth and nail to support public health care.” There is an opportunity here to make it right. One thing my mom taught me long ago was that, if someone knows they have done something wrong, they should correct it and learn from that mistake. There is an opportunity for the Liberals to do exactly that. Our motion today gives them that opportunity. We are calling for the government to close the loophole within the Canada Health Act and say no more. We want the government to say we are not going to have this debate anymore, we are not going to go down this track, and we are going to stop it. The way to stop it is to close that loophole in the Canada Health Act. Furthermore, the government, with health care spending and the transfer of dollars to the provinces, can also say to the provinces and Conservative premiers that, if they think they are going to use this money to go in the direction of privatizing health care delivery, that is not what the money is for and it will not allow that to happen. The government can do that. The government has the authority to do that. It can put teeth in its words and stand by them. Together, we can continue to build the Canada health care system and not allow for the erosion that so many Conservatives are attempting to sneak in with their pursuit of an agenda. If they were successful, what would that mean? It would mean that people who need the services the most would not be able to get it because they do not have the money or the wealth to access those services. It brings me back to the days when I was a kid on my mom's back. She carried me for miles to go see a doctor because we could not afford it. We just have to look to the United States to see what is going on. People make movies about these things. We see movies of desperate parents trying to access health care, and when they cannot access it, what do they do? They are forced to take unimaginable actions, such as commit crimes they do not want to do or engage in robberies. Movies are made about these things. This cannot be allowed to happen. We do not want people to make those kinds of movies about Canada. We want people to make movies about Canada that say how great our system is, what universal health care means and how it protects everybody. We need to come together to do this work. We need to invest in our health care system, and when people want to take it down the wrong track, we have to stop them dead in their tracks and say, “No way, no how”—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Feb/16/23 4:07:43 p.m.
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Questions and comments, the hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

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Secretary

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Feb/16/23 4:07:49 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will go back to the days when I was the health critic in the province of Manitoba and the NDP was in government. We had a situation where privately owned clinics were provided business through public doctors, as all doctors are publicly compensated. I wonder if the member and the NDP would see that as a negative thing. Was the provincial NDP wrong to be dependent on private clinics, which would provide all sorts of blood testing, for example? Is that the type of privatization the national NDP opposes? Could the member expand on that? Is there any role at all for private clinics or non-profits?

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Ms. Jenny Kwan

Feb/16/23 4:09:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member knows very well that what we are talking about is for-profit health care. He knows very well why I cited the example of the Cambie clinic. What Dr. Brian Day wanted to do was expand surgery, for example, and charge people tens of thousands of dollars to access surgery. In that process, he was going to raid health care workers in the public system to staff that approach. The member knows very well that doing that hurts our system overall. He knows very well that it erodes our public health care system. The member knows very well that it is a violation of the Canada Health Act.

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Mr. Jeremy Patzer (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, CPC)

Feb/16/23 4:09:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I noticed there was a stark absence in the member's speech of a reference to the NDP record on health care in Saskatchewan. That record includes the closure of 52 hospitals in one year, and the closure of 13 long-term care centres in one year, which also meant that probably around 1,000 health care workers were put out of a job. Could the member comment on the record the NDP has, which has contributed to people not trusting the NDP in Saskatchewan? They will not for a long time because of the record the NDP had of abandoning rural Canada.

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Ms. Jenny Kwan

Feb/16/23 4:10:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, let us look at the whole picture. The member should know what was happening during that period with the federal government. It was a Conservative government. With the Liberals and the Conservatives, it is the same old story; they are about the same. They starve provinces of federal health care transfer dollars, so people are forced to try to make ends meet. What we need to do, of course, is properly fund provinces and territories in the delivery of health care. We also need to close all the loopholes for premiers who want to go down the track of privatizing health care. By the way, it was the B.C. NDP government that stopped private clinics, and the people who wanted to go down the private health care track, in the courts.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

Feb/16/23 4:11:24 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the NDP member for her passion, spirit and ardour. She has good intentions. However, I have to say that she showed a serious lack of discernment. Quebec would not be subject to such a plan. I think that her ideology is completely overshadowing the debate and that she believes that anything connected to the private sector is automatically evil. Could she please show some discernment?

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Ms. Jenny Kwan

Feb/16/23 4:12:06 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I note the condescending comments that my colleague shared about my speech. It is not passion that I speak about. This is about our health care system and how it impacts Canadians. The member should know, and if he does not know, he should look it up, that the courts have made a clear decision that going toward private health care is a violation of the Canada Health Act. Going in that direction is an erosion of our public health care system. It hurts people in their access to health care, and it is not the path forward.

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