44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 7, 2023 10:00AM
Madam Speaker, I appreciate that the member has been participating in the debate today.
One of the questions that I have is, if this is really about protecting the personal privacy of individuals, why this bill has so many exemptions for businesses. It allows, in subsection 18(3), the legitimate interests of businesses to override the interests of an individual. In subsection 15(5), it allows businesses to use implied consent, not real consent, to override the interests of personal privacy.
Why is it that personal privacy is not part of the purpose of the bill as a fundamental right?
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Madam Speaker, this legislation needs to be flexible. As I mentioned in my speech, it applies not only to big corporations but to smaller companies and companies that use a lot of personal data as well as companies that use very little personal data. It has to be flexible. It has to be able to work in different situations. It has to be able to work in the future because, as we have seen, technology advances very quickly. We need legislation to be able to adapt regardless of the changes in technology that are happening before we can change the laws to accommodate.
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Madam Speaker, I think my question will resonate with my colleague. Personal information protection and security are very important to me. I myself was recently a victim of credit card fraud. I bought a nice couch that I did not even shop for myself. Handy, right?
Anyway, as much as I recognize the importance of protecting personal information, I also recognize the importance of protecting victims of cyberviolence. We will be studying an online hate bill soon. My colleague and I may have to work on a way to identify offenders, individuals who attack people online and hide behind anonymity.
Does my colleague think the legislative measures in Bill C‑27 could make it harder for us to adequately legislate online hate?
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Madam Speaker, I do not think this bill is going to create any issues for the other bill that we are going to look at in committee. I think there are a number of measures that need to be put in place to deal with the problems of the digital world that we face today.
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Madam Speaker, I just have a question for the member. She brought up Google before, but I will quote Jim Balsillie again.
I want your response to his statement that “Canada’s federal government has repeatedly failed to take privacy seriously and construct a legal and regulatory framework that protects the rights of Canadians in the digital age.” How do you respond to that?
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- Mar/7/23 1:41:50 p.m.
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I am not going to let him know how I am going to respond to it, but I will ask the member to respond to it.
The hon. member for Hamilton Mountain.
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- Mar/7/23 1:42:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have forgotten the question.
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- Mar/7/23 1:42:19 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member across the way talked about Google. We have always known that there is a close relationship between Google, the Prime Minister and the Liberals.
However, a question comes up from Jim Balsillie's statement that “Canada’s federal government has repeatedly failed to take privacy seriously and construct a legal and regulatory framework that protects the rights of Canadians in the digital age.”
Would the member please respond to that?
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Madam Speaker, I think this government takes privacy very seriously. That is why we have been working on this legislation since the last government and why we have improved this legislation, bringing it before the government a second time to include things like artificial intelligence and improve security for the privacy of young people on the Internet.
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Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to speak to Bill C-27 in the House today, a bill that deals with issues related to privacy, as well as the way that the government interacts with large corporations to protect, or not, the privacy of Canadians.
I want to say at the outset that I am deeply concerned by the fact that the government has clearly been captured by certain corporate interests. It is important to distinguish in this discussion between corporate interests and the idea of a free market. As Conservatives, we believe very much in the importance and value of a free market and a competitive market, a market that is legitimately a challenging and competitive place for businesses that have to compete with each other to have the best products, where some businesses come in to challenge and steal market share away from other businesses and so forth, where there are not gatekeepers preventing new entrants coming into business. We celebrate free markets and the competitive aspect of free markets rather than a situation in which a small group of large corporations is able to dominate and exercise undue and inappropriate power.
In this House, different parties have different dispositions when it comes to corporations. We have the NDP that generally takes kind of an anti-business approach in general, we have my party that champions the free competitive market and we have a government that is, sadly, captured by specific corporate interests, often at the expense of the free market, as well as at the expense of individual well-being. Paradoxically, the NDP, while it criticizes the government for that, is fundamentally complicit with the government in, on the one hand, criticizing its agenda as it relates to defending corporate interests, but, on the other hand, supporting the government and providing it with the supply it needs to continue in its misguided approach.
What we see in terms of the government's relationship with large corporate interests at the expense of the free market and individual well-being is clear across a broad range of cases. We could talk, for instance, about the government's fondness for specific companies in terms of outsourcing and procurement, how it has repeatedly gone back to McKinsey to do work that in fact could have and should have been done within the public service, despite McKinsey's track record in so many different areas. We can talk about the fact that while the public service has grown, outsourcing under the government has expanded dramatically. We can talk about how it has pushed companies to implement forms of political discrimination, such as freezing people's bank accounts. We can talk about a number of the violations of individual privacy and liberty that happen through the government's close relationship with corporations.
I will say, in general, there is this emerging concept of woke capitalism or stakeholder capitalism that I think we need to be thoughtfully critical of, this idea that large corporations should be making definitive determinations and forcing those implementations on the country using their power and that governments can push corporations to push woke ideas or particular views of the common good that arise not through free democratic deliberation, but that come about because of pressure from corporate interests. We see the government's fondness for this kind of woke corporatism approach, where it tries to pressure companies to align with and push its views on various issues.
Again, Conservatives are very supportive of competitive marketplaces where businesses are doing business, not assuming a preferential position in social values debates, where businesses have to compete to survive, where new businesses are able to compete with old businesses and where we support the development of new small businesses so that we do not have a concentration of corporate power, but, rather, a well-functioning, effective market economy. That is the vision that Conservatives are defending.
Let me talk specifically about the issue of privacy and how we see the working out of the government's kind of approach to and relationship with big corporations in terms of their approach to privacy.
I am very pleased the Conservative Party uses and has a member-driven policy document. On issues like this, if one would like to know where Conservatives stand, it is not just a matter of Conservative caucus discussion but it is also a matter of drawing from the work that hundreds of thousands of Conservative Party members do, deliberating at the riding level, having discussions, proposing ideas and bringing those to a convention that then leads to a standing policy document that helps to define and frame the values that Conservatives stand for. I know our Conservative Party is deeply committed to the idea of grassroots democracy and the role our members play in all aspects of decision-making.
That is very important, and in this particular context, we see that playing out in the area of the policy declaration. Our policy declaration recognizes the fundamental right people have to privacy. As a Conservative caucus, we are supportive in advancing and bringing to the House that view about fundamental rights, a fundamental right to data privacy that has come to us through the involvement of our members but that also reflects the widely held perspectives of Canadians beyond our membership, a fundamental right around the protection of data.
This bill, Bill C-27, could have mirrored the language from the Conservative Party policy declaration. It does not. It does not recognize the fundamental nature of rights around data privacy. Rather, it talks about kind of striking a balance between people wanting to have their privacy protected but also the fact there are certain corporate interests. There are interests of corporations the government is close to that might be negatively affected if we recognize the fundamental right to privacy of Canadians, so it effectively seeks to say there should be some balance between the idea of protecting people's rights and the fact there may be certain large corporations whose interests would be negatively affected by recognizing the privacy rights of Canadians.
In particular, although the bill speaks about a balance at a general level, it is so, to borrow a word from the member opposite, “flexible” that it creates space one could effectively drive a truck through, with so many different exceptions and exemptions that it is not really effectively protecting the privacy rights of Canadians.
A member opposite, in a speech just given, said that this is a flexible framework, that the bill is flexible. Well, flexibility is not always a virtue. In particular, it is flexible for who? Who is doing the flexing? Who is the one who is able to bend the bill back and forth to their own will and interests? I would suggest the flexing is not being done by the individual who is supposed to own their own data, the flexing is being done by these corporate interests the government is close to.
Even if one believes this should be a balanced approach, it is not a balanced approach. It is a highly “flexible” approach in which the bending and twisting is done by the particular interests the government has been and always I suspect will be close to until we are able to have a new government in this country that respects fundamental rights, respects privacy and believes in a free competitive market in which businesses compete instead of where particular corporate friends of the government are protected.
I want to draw the attention of members to specific sections in here that identify broad exceptions in the legislation. Subclause 18(3) would allow the organization or business to use a person's information if they have a legitimate reason for doing so. That is pretty flexible. If one wants flexible, we are going to say this data cannot be used in a certain way unless there is a reason to do so. I would submit most people who do things think they have a legitimate reason for them. Others might not think they have a legitimate reason, but to say people's data can be used as an exception if there is a legitimate reason, there likely could be no broader conceivable exception than that one.
However, there are more exceptions even, if that one were not enough. The legislation, for instance, in subclause 15(5), refers to “implied consent”, so apparently in the case of privacy legislation, consent is not so sacrosanct, because companies can interpret an implied consent in this context.
There are clear problems with this legislation in terms of the particulars, but we can understand broader than the particulars the motivation or the value set that is behind this bill, which is that the government is once again trying to defend corporate interests instead of defending privacy and a genuinely competitive free market.
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Madam Speaker, it is disappointing listening to Conservative after Conservative stand and say they do not like this. Now that member referred to some sort of concern of policy platform. We do not know, really, because we often question the lack of any sort of plan coming from the Conservative Party. What we know is that we have substantial legislation that would set the framework, protect the privacy of Canadians and enable penalties and fines to ensure there is a consequence when a company breaks its trust with Canadians. What do the Conservatives say? They say they do not care about this type of legislation because they have their own ideas.
Will the member and the Conservative Party acknowledge that it is okay to allow the legislation to go to committee where the member can continue to rant on the different ideas and maybe even do something positive, like suggest an amendment he feels would make the legislation better?
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Madam Speaker, it is quite a thing to be accused of ranting by the member for Winnipeg North. I am so sorry to have disappointed him with my speech. I recall in an earlier exchange he referred to me as a “mischievous little guy”. I framed that and put it on my wall. That is truly having a ride. The goal I set out from the beginning was to be thus recognized by the member.
He asks what changes to the bill I would like. I suggest he support changes that reflect what Conservative members, in their wisdom, have put forward through our policy declaration, which we, as a caucus, are strongly supporting. This is the idea that there is a right to digital privacy that comes before the corporate friends of that member and the government.
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Madam Speaker, I am looking at Bill C-27 and wondering what we make of the fact, and I know he commented on this, that we have three different bills that are all put together and only one is really new. We have seen the privacy pieces and the repeal of PIPEDA in the former Parliament's Bill C-11. The bill before us relating to artificial intelligence and high-impact AI and regulating that is essentially an entirely different scheme of legislation. Would the Conservatives agree that they should be split so we can examine them separately? I think that is already their position. What does the hon. member say to that?
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Madam Speaker, some members will recall that way back in 2015, eight long years ago, in the lead-up to that election, the Liberal platform spoke about how the Liberals would end omnibus bills. That went the way of the dodo bird, as did many of their other election commitments.
It was such a sunny time, in the rhetoric of the Liberal caucus, and we see the government's management of its legislative calendar. It puts forward bills, then it prorogues Parliament; it puts forward bills again and calls an early election. Now it is putting forward bills again.
In contrast, my constituents are certainly hoping for an opportunity to weigh in on the government at some point soon, but I think the member's point is quite correct. We have seen immense hypocrisy from the government around omnibus bills, and I wonder if we are getting to a point where it will just try to put all aspects of its legislative agenda together at once. I think that is probably the direction some of the members want to go.
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Madam Speaker, to respond to the member across the way from Alberta, he, the Prime Minister and the Liberal Party say to just trust them on this. Does the member who just spoke think we should trust the government and the Prime Minister?
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Madam Speaker, my short answer would be that, no, we should not trust the government.
My slightly longer answer would be that over the last few years, we have seen various actions through COVID and various other actions contemplated by the government. In all of these actions, there is a great deal of concern about people's privacy. Because of the way the government has acted in the past, there is concern and distrust any time the government says not to worry, that it is going to protect our information and that it will not use systems in such a way. The current government has undermined trust in government and institutions because it has not been worthy of that trust.
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- Mar/7/23 1:58:39 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, today, members of the Canadian Foodgrains Bank are in Ottawa to mark the organization's 40-year mission to end world hunger. Since 1983, Foodgrains has provided over $1 billion in food-related assistance, working with over 100 international partners in over 70 countries around the globe.
As a partnership of 15 Canadian churches and church-based organizations, Foodgrains responds to emergency food needs arising from conflict, climate change and other causes of humanitarian crises while supporting long-term development. Its work centres on supporting sustainable farming practices, promoting gender equality and enabling communities to enhance their livelihoods and resiliency.
Congratulations to executive director Andy Harrington and the board of directors, staff, volunteers and member agencies that have contributed to Foodgrains' incredible impact over the last four decades. May they continue to stay the course and help drive meaningful change.
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- Mar/7/23 1:59:40 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, after over two years of uncertainty and lockdown, small businesses are only starting to get back on their feet.
A small business in my riding received support through the Canada emergency business account. As an entertainment company, it was among the hardest hit during the lockdown. It originally qualified for the CEBA loan and depended on this loan to keep the lights on.
Now the business owner is shocked by the Liberals’ claim that he, along with 50,000 others, was not eligible for the loan in the first place and is required to pay it back immediately and in full. With no recourse to appeal the decision, a simple error made on the application may now result in the complete loss of the business, and the owner is terrified.
The hypocrisy is astounding. While the Liberals shake down hard-working business owners for $2 billion over clerical errors, they have no problem shelling out $15 billion to high-priced consultants and friends who are wealthy enough to pay their own bonuses to executives.
Once again, the current government flaunts its inability to manage the hard-earned tax dollars of Canadians while abusing its power in intentionally choosing winners and losers.
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- Mar/7/23 2:00:43 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, tomorrow, March 8, is International Women's Day. This is a day to honour women of the past and present and to celebrate the achievements of the women who came before us and fought so hard to get us to where we are today.
While we have come so far, there is still much for us to do to help future generations of women to live in a fairer world. Whether we are talking about under-representation right here in the House of Commons, the mega health research gap between men and women, femicide or gender-based violence, women still face barriers and obstacles that make it impossible to say that we live in an equitable society.
This year's theme for International Women's Day is “Embrace Equity.” Let us do more than just pay it lip service. We need to think it, be it, do it, value it and truly embrace it.
We can all challenge gender stereotypes, speak out against discrimination, and seek inclusion in all areas. Everyone, not just women, should be fighting for gender equity. Allies are extremely important to women's social, economic, cultural and political advancement.
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- Mar/7/23 2:01:49 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the City of Blainville has submitted a bid to host the 2026 Quebec Winter Games. Mayor Liza Poulin, who is also the first woman mayor of Blainville, has rallied the entire Blainville community behind this bid.
She successfully recruited none other than Mathieu Poirier, owner of Jardin Dion and a pillar of the community, as president of the committee. She can also count on a trio of excellent spokespersons: sports analyst Yanick Bouchard, athlete Myriam Boileau and former goalie Jean-Sébastien Giguère.
I would like to add my voice to theirs and throw my support behind the City of Blainville. It definitely has what it takes to host the 2026 Quebec Games. Go, Blainville, go.
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