SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 172 - Mar/23/23

Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ)

Mar/23/23 11:11:24 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, thank you for those clarifications. It is still a grey area. MPs learn something every day in the House. Crises teach us so much because they subject our societies to pressure. They highlight our strengths and our weaknesses. However, for the past three years, we have been operating from inside a Matryoshka doll set of crises that have revealed weaknesses in both our economic structure and government action. There was the COVID‑19 crisis, lockdowns and a stalled economy. First, let us talk about the public health crisis. The COVID‑19 crisis revealed the system's extreme fragility, aggravated by the aging population. It was primarily caused, however, by chronic federal underfunding, which has escalated since 2017 when health transfers stopped being tied to rising costs. A better division of health care costs, including adequate and predictable federal funding, would have protected our health care system from potential collapse. Moreover, recent agreements are insufficient to stave off that threat. At best, they temporarily freeze, at an insufficient level, the federal share of health care funding, nothing more. In 10 years, Ottawa will contribute 24% of health care costs, which is the same percentage it was contributing when the current Prime Minister took office in 2015. We know that ending the government's disengagement is not enough to rebuild the health care system. The government needs to tackle the chronic underfunding with a significant reinvestment if we have any hope of being able to deal with the coming demographic crisis. Quebec and the Canadian provinces have said it again and again while providing ample evidence to support their case, but Ottawa is missing in action. Ottawa is the one holding on to the money that Quebec and the provinces urgently need on a ongoing basis. COVID-19 created an income crisis for individuals by forcing millions of people to stop working temporarily. It brought to light the flaws in the employment insurance system, which covers only a small portion of the contributors who lose their jobs. Because the system was inadequate, the government was forced to compensate by creating a whole host of special programs, which were often not well-thought-out, poorly targeted, ineffective and costly. However, these programs expired, as did the relaxed EI rules, which are now back to the way they were before 2020 and before COVID showed us how inadequate they were. With the threat of a recession looming, now is the time to fix the problems with the EI system, to make it more accessible and to adapt it to non-standard jobs, which are becoming increasingly common. Ottawa is refusing to conduct this necessary, in-depth reform. After the lockdowns, the economy reopened. This reopening of the economy also revealed its share of weaknesses. The housing shortage, caused by years of underfunding and not building enough homes, caused prices to skyrocket. Housing starts, especially for affordable rental housing and social and co-operative housing are still weak in 2023. Things need to change course and fast. The destabilization of our manufacturing sector made us seriously dependent on foreign suppliers in globalized supply chains, whose fragility was exposed during the crisis. There again, the disruptions led to shortages and high inflation, amplified by a lack of competition, which allowed mass distribution to increase its prices at will. We need to rebuild solid supply chains immediately and improve our competition regime. It is imperative that we improve the resilience of our economy. All these factors contributed to the increase in prices and then the successive interest rate hikes set by the central bank. We know who is suffering the most from this: people on a fixed income, such as pensioners, low-income earners who cannot cope with the increased cost of essentials, and heavily indebted households that are especially hard hit by rising interest rates, especially young families who recently purchased a home. As if that were not enough, we are now being rocked by international crises. Aggression against Ukraine is turning Russia into an international pariah and pushing it out of trade and economic channels. That has impacted the price of commodities, oil, grains and fertilizers, all of which have skyrocketed. In addition to reminding us that we need to urgently reduce our dependency on oil, war is affecting the agricultural sector in particular, where input costs have skyrocketed. That sector urgently needs to be given the tools to survive the crisis, as well as help to adopt a more sustainable model: supply management protection, predictability, resilience to annual yield variability and disasters, ecological transition, standards reciprocity and succession planning, among other things. Then there is China. Its economy is far more diversified than that of Russia, and a rise in tensions is likely to impact many more sectors. In particular, we are completely dependent on China's supply of components needed for high-tech goods and the electrification of transportation. These sectors need a major boost. We already have a relative advantage because Quebec and Canada have critical mineral deposits. If we move from mining to producing batteries, as the government of Quebec is proposing, we will all have what it takes to become the engine of transportation electrification in North America and become a vital link in new and more resilient supply chains. In that area, Ottawa must align with Quebec to accelerate the rolling out of its strategy. Finally, there are crises unfolding in slow motion. There are three crises that we can see coming. They have been anticipated and analyzed for a long time, and there is no reason for not implementing the measures needed to address them. First of all, there are demographic changes. The aging population will put more pressure on health care services and on the public finances of Quebec and the provinces, as we know. As baby boomers retire, this will also have significant economic repercussions. Canada ranks near the bottom of OECD countries when it comes to protecting the purchasing power of retirees. There is an urgent need to preserve seniors' purchasing power to ensure that the demographic shock does not cause a major economic shock, which is why we want an increase in old age security that does not discriminate based on age. This wave of retirements is problematic for businesses. The labour shortage could prevent us from rebuilding our supply chains if we do not take steps to address the shortage. Incentives must be provided for experienced workers who want to stay on the job. Our businesses need to step up their productivity to help them deal with the labour shortage. The temporary foreign worker program must be transferred to Quebec, which will be able to make it more efficient and bring it in line with Quebec's labour policies. Then there is the climate crisis. Again, it has been unfolding for a long time, and we have analyzed it from every angle. However, we have been slow to act. Whether we are talking about shoreline erosion or the increase in extreme weather events, climate change will put enormous pressure on our public infrastructure. An adjustment fund is needed. More fundamentally, we must accelerate the transition to a net-zero economy. The money invested in oil and gas must be urgently redirected to the green economy, with a focus on energy efficiency in all sectors, the electrification of transportation, which includes critical mineral processing, the transition from oil to renewable energy, and more sustainable agricultural practices. As oil companies take advantage of international crises to rake in obscene profits, Ottawa must end all forms of subsidies, including subsidies for carbon sequestration and small nuclear power plants that are designed to produce energy to increase oil sands production. This money must be redirected to accelerating the transition. Given the enormity of the task and the urgent need for action, the financial sector will have to participate and gradually redirect its oil investments to the green economy. Ottawa must get the banks to step up to the plate by forcing them to integrate climate risks into their investments. Tens of billions of dollars could be made available for the green transition. There is the ongoing issue of the fiscal imbalance, which is causing major problems that are limiting the government's ability to address the many challenges it faces. There are three types of problems. First, Ottawa, which brings in more revenue than it needs to discharge its responsibilities, is not making an effort to manage its own affairs properly. The federal government is notoriously ineffective, and everything costs more than it should. I would like to give two examples to illustrate this. It costs the federal government two and a half times more to process an EI claim than it costs the Quebec government to process a social assistance claim. It costs the federal government four times more to issue a passport than it costs the Quebec government to issue a driver's licence. Everything costs more and those are just two examples. Then, Ottawa uses its fiscal room to interfere in areas that fall under the jurisdiction of Quebec and the provinces. This sort of interference makes the sharing of powers less clear and less sound while undermining our autonomy. Administrative duplication is not in any way efficient. All it does is promote centralization in Ottawa. I will again give two examples. The first concerns something that happened very recently, specifically the implementation of the dental care program for children. Quebec already provides dental insurance. However, the federal government did not make any effort to harmonize programs and simply created a second program. That is completely inefficient and ends up costing twice as much. It is really outrageous, and the Bloc Québécois has spoken about that many times. Here is a more general example. People in Quebec have to complete two tax returns when, for years, the Quebec National Assembly and the Bloc Québécois have been calling for a single tax return. That is a useless and inefficient duplication of effort. Lastly, with regard to the fiscal imbalance, given that Ottawa tightly controls the purse strings of the governments of Quebec and the Canadian provinces, the Quebec government's ability to fully discharge its responsibilities is diminished. The Parliamentary Budget Officer has been clear: If the trend continues, eventually, provincial governments will no longer be sustainable. They will likely collapse while the federal government's fiscal room will increase considerably. That is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer has been telling us in his fiscal sustainability report year after year. In other words, unless the trend is reversed, we run the risk of seeing an unprecedented centralization of power in Ottawa, which will take away the Quebec people's ability to control their development according to their needs, strengths, characteristics and wishes. In that regard, at a time when this government is choosing to contribute six times less for health care than Quebec and the provinces are asking for to fix the system, Ottawa has unprecedented fiscal room that is in excess of $80 billion, or three times the amount of the health care requests. Let me explain. Ottawa increasingly budgets money for voted items that it fails to spend year after year. When you add up the items that were voted and the spending that was authorized but not spent last year, $41 bilion was left on the table. Let me repeat that. Some $41 billion was left on the table because it was voted or authorized but not spent. This is in addition to another $40 billion in extra fiscal room, according to the Parliamentary Budget Officer. If the federal government wanted to maintain its debt-to-GDP ratio, it could increase spending or reduce revenues by that amount. When we talk about unprecedented centralization and the fact that the money is here, we are talking about $81 billion in one single year. That is three times the amount the provinces and Quebec were asking for to better fund health care. Ottawa said no and agreed to six times less. That is peanuts. The federal government is gradually stabilizing its share, and the money stays here. That money will be used for new programs that interfere in our jurisdictions. There is no respect for the governments of Quebec and the provinces or for the National Assembly. It was with these important challenges in mind that the Bloc Québécois drew up its expectations for the 2023 federal budget. We presented them to the minister a few weeks ago. Considering the challenges we are facing, now is not the time for shiny new programs, which are often not within the federal government's purview anyway, nor for pre-election pandering. Financially speaking, the way to avoid austerity is to be prudent. Economically speaking, the best way to insulate ourselves from the potential turmoil of an extraordinarily uncertain environment is to tackle the fundamental issues. In this period of uncertainty, we need to get back to the essentials. The strengths of Quebec's economy are precisely what is needed to succeed in a rapidly changing world. Also, the way to meet the current needs of the different sectors of Quebec's economy is to finally step into the 21st century. We have an abundant supply of clean, renewable energy, especially hydroelectricity. In this area, the shift is already under way, and we are ready to move on to the next step, which is a net-zero economy. If our forests are managed sustainably, they are renewable resources that could be one of the keys to replacing hydrocarbons. More research would allow more processing and greater generation of wealth with this resource. Our proximity agriculture has already espoused the model of the future in favour of short circuits and food security. We need to help our farmers face the current international turmoil that is inflating input prices and we need to help them develop more sustainable practices. That is the future. When it comes to critical minerals essential to the redevelopment of supply chains and the electrification of transportation, the only mines in operation in Canada are in our neck of the woods. We need to move from mines to batteries and become an essential link in the chain, especially when it comes to supplying North America. Obviously, all that development needs to respect the highest environmental standards, in partnership with indigenous communities and with the agreement of local communities. It is good for the green economy, it is good for economic resilience, it is good for strategically positioning Quebec in a changing world. Another one of Quebec's strengths is its creativity. A stagnant society struggles to cope with change. The antidote is creativity, and Quebec has that in spades. This is especially true for its arts and culture sector, so we must ensure that it maintains its vitality and influence, and the French language is the most vivid expression of that creativity. That being said, this same is true for all fields. Yesterday's tinkerers are now working in artificial intelligence, creating the next video game, developing the next green finance instruments, working on the aeronautics industry of tomorrow. That is already the case. As Canada's technology hub, Quebec has what it takes to become silicon valley north, as long as we support our cutting-edge sectors. Finally, there is our social model, particularly our tax and family policies. Because of them, wealth is more evenly distributed in Quebec than anywhere else on the continent. The middle class is larger in Quebec than elsewhere in Canada or the United States and, in a world that is under pressure, that guarantees a more peaceful life and social harmony. That is why it is so important to maintain the Quebec government's ability to take action, and that is why we must seriously address the fiscal imbalance that undermines that ability. As with all of the expectations set out in the committee report we are discussing, the Bloc Québécois presented a series of requests covering many aspects of Quebec's economy. We outlined them here. They reflect the requests expressed by various sectors of Quebec society when consultations were held by all members of the Bloc Québécois. They respond to Quebec's real needs. They will help Quebec deal with all the existing crises and will make us more resilient. They will enable Quebec to embrace the future with confidence.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate), Lib.)

Mar/23/23 11:29:41 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member briefly touched on the electrical grid, the greening of that grid and the great success Quebec had seen around this. A number of recommendations in this report specifically talk about incentivizing electric vehicles and the infrastructure for electric vehicles. I think it is widely known that Quebec has led the way in providing that infrastructure for electric vehicles. Could the member speak to the incredible of success of Quebec in that area and how the rest of the country could benefit from the lessons that Quebec has learned?

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Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie

Mar/23/23 11:30:25 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, a significant portion of the Standing Committee on Finance's report, and the demands of the Bloc Québécois, deals with the electrification of transportation. One of the key components of transport electrification is the construction of charging station infrastructure so that drivers can charge their vehicles in various locations. That is well under way in Quebec and in British Columbia too, if I am not mistaken, where it is going well. Obviously, to make electric vehicles appealing, we first need to require dealers and manufacturers to have models available at the dealership, which is not always the case, even in Quebec. We are asking Ottawa to introduce legislation in that regard and also to build a network of fast charging stations. A car that has a range of 400 kilometres, or 250 kilometres in winter, has to be able to charge in different locations. The hon. members for Berthier—Maskinongé and Drummond can attest to that.

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Mr. Gord Johns (Courtenay—Alberni, NDP)

Mar/23/23 11:31:28 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague, as he is always working hard to fight for tax fairness and close loopholes that allow for extremely wealthy individuals to move their money out of the country. One thing I am hearing from constituents is that people who applied for CERB and who might not have properly read the application, which might have not been clear from the government, are now being told that their child tax benefit will be reduced or, even worse, are getting a bill from CRA saying they have to pay it. Instead of the government going after big companies that paid out dividends to shareholders and collected the wage subsidy, it is going after low-income Canadians. This is creating huge mental health stress for Canadians and huge financial stress for them and their families. These people are already struggling. Does my hon. colleague agree that there should be CERB repayment amnesty for all Canadians who are struggling right now?

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Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie

Mar/23/23 11:32:35 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for raising that important issue. I think all of my colleagues in the House of Commons would agree. We are getting a lot of calls from families that have had their child benefit cut, probably because they received CERB payments that the Canada Revenue Agency wants to claw back. No arrangements seem to have been taken into account. This approach can really lead to suffering and poverty for these families. We sincerely hope that the government will look at this, that the Minister of National Revenue will be able to address this and find a solution. We hope so. We will see whether she will do anything about this. It is really troubling. I really liked the comparison the hon. member made. When it comes to regular folks, the government is quick to claw back money it is owed without even asking, but when it comes to multinationals, billionaires and fighting tax evasion, then it is much more complicated, sadly.

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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

Mar/23/23 11:33:44 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my dear colleague, the member for Joliette, who is also the Bloc Québécois finance critic. I have a question about next week's budget. What does he think about the money being wasted on the fossil fuel industry? For example, the Government of Canada owns the Trans Mountain pipeline. The cost of the project has ballooned to $30 billion of public money. What does he think about that?

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Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie

Mar/23/23 11:34:24 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, first, I want to pay tribute to and thank the hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands for her strong commitment to the planet. The IPCC's recent report reminds us of the urgent need for action, and I salute her commitment, her life's work, as we were saying earlier in a private conversation. In my opinion, the government made the wrong choice for both the environment and the economy. That is why we were opposed, as was my hon. colleague. The time has come for the government to step from the 20th century into the 21st century and to support the green economy. It needs to stop supporting the oil economy. We still need it, but there must be a gradual, clear transition. For goodness' sake, subsidies to billionaire oil companies need to stop.

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Mr. Martin Champoux (Drummond, BQ)

Mar/23/23 11:35:15 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I congratulate my very esteemed colleague from Joliette on his speech and comments, which are always enlightening, well-thought-out and prepared. We always appreciate the discussions we have with him. Quebec cares deeply about its culture. This week, the Government of Quebec tabled its budget. There are allocations for culture, especially for certain aspects of culture that I appreciate, in particular facilitating access to culture for youth. Money is allocated for that. Also, some $100 million over five years is being invested in Télé-Québec, if I am not mistaken. That is in addition to Télé‑Québec's current budget. There is also assistance for the media sector. My question for my colleague is this. The Bloc Québécois expressed its expectations for the cultural sector and, especially, the media sector. I would like him to briefly speak about the importance of the resources we are calling for to restore the vitality of the media sector.

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Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie

Mar/23/23 11:36:13 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Drummond for his question, his comments and the kind words he said about me. We could praise one another all day, for I could say the same about him. Language and culture are at the heart of our identity and our pride. They are what sustain us. They are what inspire us. It is the government's job to support our creators and organizations as well as the ecosystem that surrounds them. This includes the news media. Having high-quality, independent, local news is crucial. Let us look at my community as an example. In Joliette, local media like radio stations and weekly newspapers are having a really tough time, particularly because advertising has shifted from local media to the web giants with no compensation. I see these news organizations as an essential service. It is the government's job to support them and ensure that we continue to have high-quality, local news. That is what the Bloc Québécois is asking for, and we will not back down.

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Mr. Tako Van Popta (Langley—Aldergrove, CPC)

Mar/23/23 11:37:38 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, in her last budget and latest fall economic update, our Minister of Finance talked about Canada's lagging productivity numbers compared to those of our trading partners. She even called this “Canada's Achilles heel”. I wonder if my colleague shares that concern. What does he think is the source of the lagging productivity problem, and could he point to some solutions?

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Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie

Mar/23/23 11:38:15 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, productivity is incredibly important. In terms of business productivity, Canada is lagging behind our G7 allies, as well as the average across high-income OECD countries. This needs to change. Productivity measures the amount of value generated per hour worked. It is dependent on the amount of capital, the technology used and other factors. The level of technology and capital per hour worked in Canadian businesses do not adequately compare to other countries. Something needs to be done. To fix this problem, the government must support leading-edge sectors like the aerospace industry. Various cities across the country have a strong aerospace industry, and the greater Montreal area is the third-largest aerospace hub in the world. Canada is the only country that has a very large aerospace industry but does not have an industrial policy to support research, development, commercialization and so on. The government needs to do a better job of supporting productivity, investment, research and development.

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Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)

Mar/23/23 11:39:36 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-223

Madam Speaker, I am so pleased to rise in the House today. Before I begin, I will mention that I will be splitting my time with the member for Edmonton Griesbach. We talk about budgets, and I hear rhetoric in the House almost on a daily basis about how people from coast to coast are struggling to make ends meet, with a particular reference to single mothers. The story of the single mother is consistently usurped in this House without real solutions to tackle issues of poverty and inequality in this country. I actually was a single mom, as I have mentioned in the House. When I first had my son, I was one of the people we talk about in the House. I was not a single mom at the time, but I had just graduated from university and I was poor. The only thing that kept a roof over our heads at the time and allowed me to feed my son was affordable housing with rent geared to income and social assistance. I had just given birth to my child, and my partner at the time had employment that did not pay the bills, so I needed to get help. I share this today because I often find that in this place these stories are taken by people who have never had lived experience with struggling to make ends meet or struggling to feed their kids. I share today, with my head held high, that I was one of those folks. It is an experience that allows me to understand that things are more difficult in life than a person picking themselves up by their bootstraps so they can survive. Very often things are much more complicated in the lives of individuals and families, and they were for me at the time. I consider myself a well-educated person. It certainly was not about a lack of intelligence or hard work. It was just a matter of the circumstances of life at the time. I share this because we are still coming out of a global pandemic that has impacted families from coast to coast, a pandemic that has left families more economically vulnerable than we have seen in a long time. We had programs put in place during the pandemic that kept food on the table, I would argue. We had CERB. Now, as we move in another direction in real time, the current government is not going after big corporations to pay their fair share of the pandemic. It is not going after the billionaire class to pay their fair share of the pandemic. It is not going after big CEOs to pay their fair share of the pandemic. Do members know who it is going after? It is low-income parents to get money from the monies they collected from CERB, knowing that costs for families were drastically impacted during the pandemic. That is unacceptable, and who is the most impacted by it? It is single mothers with multiple children. We are talking about housing and supporting families. This is going to leave a lot of families on the verge of falling into the streets. Going back to my story, I was very fortunate at the time that I had affordable housing with rent geared to income. It allowed me to keep food on the table when food did not cost as much. That is not the reality right now, which is why the NDP has called on the current government to put in place CERB amnesty for low-income families in particular. The process the government is using could result in families being at greater risk of precarious housing and being placed in deeper levels of poverty. We know that people who were already behind before the pandemic are further behind now. We need to stop poor-bashing in this place. We need to stop the simplified discussions about how to deal with the growing poverty crisis that impacts my riding of Winnipeg Centre, Manitoba, which was just reported to have some of the highest child poverty rates in the country. Children are supposed to be provided with minimum human rights. We have signed on to international law. We have an obligation to uphold international and domestic laws to ensure that children are provided with basic human rights, which are being violated every day, whether in urban centres, first nations communities, indigenous communities or Inuit communities across the country. I hope all my colleagues in the House will support the call for a CERB amnesty for low-income families, which, again, are the most impacted. If we are so concerned about the story of the single mother, it will be single mothers with multiple children who will be most impacted. That, for me, as the member of Parliament for Winnipeg Centre, is a true test of this so-called care I hear about in this place all the time. We must have CERB amnesty now. The NDP also put forward a dental care plan, a universal pharmacare plan, and has been fighting for a national child care strategy that prioritizes public, not-for-profit care. We have been working with frontline advocates and organizations for almost 30 years to push that forward. I am glad the current government finally heeded our call to implement a national child care strategy. This would have made a difference in my life and the life of my son. We talk about people working multiple jobs to pay the bills. I was one of those single moms who had to work multiple jobs to pay the bills. Part of the reason for that was because of high child care costs. I literally had to work more so I could work. If members of the House want to support families, then they need to support a universal dental care plan, universal pharmacare and a national child care strategy that ensures that all children are afforded their minimum human right to have access to affordable, accessible, high-quality child care. These services are essential for supporting families, as is the addition of affordable housing with rents geared to income and my bill, Bill C-223, to put in place a guaranteed livable basic income. I want to build a Canada where families are not begging to eat, where we do not make the assumption we are all born with the same privileges, where nobody is living in poverty, and where we stop poor-bashing and deal with what is going on in our country at the very roots of inequality. We can do that as members in the House. Therefore, today, I call on all members of the House to support the NDP's call, and certainly my bill for a guaranteed livable basic income, and build a Canada for all.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate), Lib.)

Mar/23/23 11:49:18 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for the very personal nature of her discussion about being a single mother. My wife, before we got together, was a single mother who benefited from a good support network around her. However, the reality is that so many single mothers out there do not have that support mechanism. Toward the end of her speech, the member spoke specifically about a basic income. I know the NDP has been rightfully calling for that for a number of years and it is something I agree that we need to understand and implement. Could she comment on how a basic income would directly help single mothers, in particular those who do not have access to good supports.

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Ms. Leah Gazan

Mar/23/23 11:50:12 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, we need to start talking about the high cost of poverty, not the high cost of a guaranteed livable basic income. We have income guarantees right now. My bill would not offer anything new. What I argue, though, is that the income guarantees we currently have are not livable. GIS for seniors is an income guarantee that is not livable. We know that when we do not look after seniors, or anybody, and when we do not provide people with what they need, it costs in other areas, like health care and justice systems. We know that with a guaranteed livable basic income, and we have income guarantees, we need to make them livable and expand them out for those who are falling through the cracks of our social safety net.

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Mr. Tako Van Popta (Langley—Aldergrove, CPC)

Mar/23/23 11:51:12 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am very intrigued by the concept of CERB amnesty. I would like to hear some more details about my colleague's thoughts about that. Will there be means testing? I am assuming that applicants for this amnesty would have to be below a certain income or below a certain wealth level. Would there also be inquiries as to why applicants for amnesty applied for CERB when they clearly did no qualify for it? How about the people who decided not to apply for CERB because they knew they did not pass the test? Would they also qualify now for a CERB payment after the fact?

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Ms. Leah Gazan

Mar/23/23 11:52:00 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, we should be clear that this program was not clear to begin with. There were calls to apply for CERB and then we would deal with it after. That is important to point out. A lot of people benefited from support during the pandemic. We know that if we do CERB clawbacks for families that are currently living at lower incomes right now, it is going to result in people ending up on the streets. Income assistance programs are not enough for families to survive, and children are going to be punished for this. I am calling for this, as is the NDP. Instead of going after families living in poverty, instead of going after poor people all the time, poor bashing and criminalizing poor people, let us to go after rich CEOs who collected bonuses during the pandemic from programs that were paid by the government I get tired of that rhetoric in the House. It is not based on research. It is not based on fact. It is a violence that continues in the House against people living in poverty, and I do not accept it.

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Ms. Sylvie Bérubé (Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, BQ)

Mar/23/23 11:53:31 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I wanted to say that I myself have been a single mother with three children. I have had to work two jobs. I would also like to talk about the cause of poverty, support for families, and funding to help them and single mothers. From my colleague's point of view, what should the government prioritize in terms of support?

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Ms. Leah Gazan

Mar/23/23 11:53:56 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, what I have offered up is not one solution. We need robust supports and services for families, like dental care, universal child care, pharmacare, guaranteed livable basic income and investment in affordable housing with rent geared to income. We need a comprehensive strategy to tackle social inequality.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach, NDP)

Mar/23/23 11:54:30 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleagues for engaging in what I believe to be a really important discussion today. To be clear, Canadians are suffering right now. In my community of Edmonton Griesbach, one does not have to look far to see the devastating impacts of poverty. There are community organizations with some of the biggest hearts and biggest hugs one can imagine, but that does not go far enough when we see critical under-resourcing and underfunding of some of the most essential services our country needs to offer. When we do not offer them, we see community organizations having to do that work, the work of health care, the work of mental health, the work that is required to ensure that regular everyday people can maximize their opportunities. People living in absolute poverty, living in the absolute worst situations one can imagine, if they have no homes or supports, are driven to a place in life where they may seek, for example, substances, which they abuse. They will fall down the rabbit hole of trying to find mental health services and will be unable to find them. It is a kind of labyrinth of poverty that our country has created, and we can address it and fix it. We are wealthy country. We would not know that by looking outside. We would not know how wealthy our country really is by the conditions of workers. We would not know how wealthy our country is by the lack of clean water in first nations communities. We would not know how wealthy our country really is until we look at the bonuses big CEOs get. These are questions of our society, of our economy, questions about what kind of Canada we want to build. When I speak to folks in my province of Alberta, they are scared. They are scared of a crumbling health care system that is being driven into the ground by private huge megacorporations that would seek to benefit and profit off those who are sick, and it is being allowed by the politicians for whom they pay. Danielle Smith, the premier of Alberta, right now is allowing for-profit surgeries in my home province. It is shameful when seniors are waiting in emergency rooms day after day not knowing if they are going to get the care they need. I speak to many young people who are struggling to even imagine an idea of owning a home. Even worse, some of them are living on our streets, the most vulnerable in our society. Who put them there? It was not solely the actions of individuals who got them there. It was our society that participated in a manufactured condition. We are seeing a mental health crisis. When I see people in my community struggling to get the supports they need, there are often massive barriers. One of the biggest barriers is money. There is a lack of public mental health care, and that lack of public health care downloads costs onto our existing health care system. This massively and exponentially compounds the problems we are seeing in our hospitals. Hospitals cannot be the one-stop shop for all problems in society. We need to reinforce our hospitals and reinvest in them, but we also need to create more mental health supports with real professionals who can ensure that the work of mental health and the kinds of supports needed in that kind of care are met. We are witnessing a drug-poisoning crisis. It is killing Canadians. It is a crisis that has touched every community that we all represent in this place. Whether it is young people, seniors, business owners or teachers, they are dying because we are not doing anything about the drug-poisoning crisis. We can do more. When driven to absolute poverty, the increase in crimes goes up. These are crimes of desperation. People do not want to see themselves in a penitentiary, but when they find themselves there, we have to ask ourselves as legislators, as people who represent our constituents, how did they get there? It is not, as I said before, the actions of just individuals; it is the conditions of poverty that we have placed upon them. There is an answer to this, and the New Democrats have been steadfast for decades to distinguish between the needs and wants of Canadians. The needs of Canadians are the things I spoke to: good public health care; a good, strong public mental health care system; housing stock that can ensure that low-income folks can get into those homes. We need to address the drug poisoning crisis. We need to make sure that there are resources invested in mental health. We need to take seriously the inflictions of poverty and the outcomes they present. We can ensure that our economy actually works for those who are working to build it. There seems to be a problem with our conception of where wealth comes from in this country. People think CEOs get up in a day and produce all this money. No, it is workers who show up every single day, like the small business owners in my community. They are not only those who offer their philanthropy to those who need help, but they are also the same people who are suffering in their own right. They are seeing huge costs passed on to them, and they cannot afford to compete with these megacorporations that are dodging taxes while simultaneously gouging Canadians. How can a small business compete with that? It is not possible. We need to protect those in the working class in this country. They need strong wages. We do not have a labour shortage in this country; we have a wage crisis. When we increase the wages of everyday workers and they can see the value of their labour produced in their paycheque, that is a good day for workers. It means they can actually put food on the table, pay their bills and pay their mortgages. However, the problem gets worse. It is not just ensuring that workers have good wages but also ensuring that these companies are held to account. We are seeing some of the largest tax avoidance in our country's history taking place right under our noses today, and I will speak directly to some of the facts on this. The tax gap has almost doubled in the last three years. Corporations are walking away with $30 billion in tax avoidance. We could close the tax loopholes today if only we had the courage of the government to see this as a serious problem. I will take a moment to talk about the $30 billion, which can go a long way. We are going to see a budget in a short few weeks, and it is going to demonstrate a massive underfunding of public services if we do not ensure that we close these tax loopholes. Canadians deserve to know that when they show up to work for massive corporations, these corporations are also paying their fair share. When regular, everyday folks are paying exorbitant tax and seeing that these megacorporations are not, there are doubts about the efficacy of our tax system. Moreover, it creates a kind of distrust, which is growing across Canada. We need to fix our tax system, in which corporations see massive profits, with some up 60%, while simultaneously seeing their tax gap go down. This is creating a massive revenue problem. For the government, and in speaking directly with the commissioner of the CRA, it is a massive issue. The CRA needs resources to ensure that it can tackle this. However, right now, these resources are being directed to a witch hunt of little old ladies who took CERB in the most desperate time of need instead of going after the rich corporations that have massive windfall profits. Instead of taxing them, we are going to use CRA to attack these poor folks. We are calling for an amnesty for these folks. I will conclude, as there will be a vote on this amendment in a short while, with regard specifically to the amendment that has been brought by the Conservative Party. New Democrats have been fighting for years to see a pan-Canadian licensing that would make sure we have a standard so that we can increase our workforce, particularly in health care, right here at home. We can do this by ensuring that those who bring those skills here actually have the ability to enter our workforce quickly. We have been calling for this ever since the leader of the official opposition was in federal cabinet, as a matter of fact. Therefore, we are very happy to see the official opposition adopting a very important policy that New Democrats have fought for, and we welcome that. However, my colleague on the finance committee tells me that this specific program was not raised during the committee hearings on the budget, and so it actually was not heard. The Conservatives did not mention it. To be clear, we want action on this issue, but we will be opposing the amendment because we think it is important that the House have a chance to concur in committee before the budget day next week. It is important that we have that. I will conclude with that, and I thank my colleagues.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate), Lib.)

Mar/23/23 12:04:39 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I was listening attentively. I heard the part of my colleague's speech where he talked about not having a labour shortage but a wage shortage. I may have that slightly incorrect, and he can correct me. I found that to be very interesting. I would agree that, especially since the pandemic came along, the divergence between the haves and the have nots is getting worse and worse and greater and greater. We know that what makes the most successful society, both economically and from a societal perspective, is having a strong middle class in there. Can he expand on that and his suggestions in order to help remedy that?

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