44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 27, 2023 11:00AM
- Mar/27/23 6:54:22 p.m.
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The hon. member may bring up a point of clarification, but we do not use such words in the House, as the hon. member rightly knows.
We will let the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay finish his speech.
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- Mar/27/23 6:54:37 p.m.
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The hon. member for Cumberland—Colchester has a point of order.
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Madam Speaker, we also know it is very unparliamentary to accuse someone of lying, but I was starting to talk about the Conservative leader, so I know why the Conservatives are jumping in front of the bus to stop me.
Have members ever been in the airport and their plane is delayed? I will call my wife or sit and read a book. However, buddy beside me gets mad and starts shouting into his phone, and I ask him to stop because we are all delayed. That is the Conservative leader. That is what he does. If his plane is delayed, he shouts into his phone and is convinced that the son of Pierre Elliott Trudeau is going to block his user-generated content to rant about how his plane was delayed.
The Conservatives are not here for the arts. They do not believe in the arts. I have said that and I will say it again. If they are calling struggling artists “big union bosses” and they want to talk about user-generated content, then—
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Madam Speaker, perhaps I will say this in a clearer fashion. I have a son who is studying musical theatre. It is very clear: How could I possibly hate the arts?
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- Mar/27/23 6:55:42 p.m.
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The hon. member will have an opportunity to make those facts known—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): That is not a point of order. The hon. member will have the opportunity to make those points in questions and comments.
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Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. What is actually a point of order is that when you rise and somebody's microphone specifically turns off, they are supposed to close their mouth and sit down. This member continues to interrupt you and challenge your authority. I think he should put himself in order by respecting the Chair.
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- Mar/27/23 6:56:18 p.m.
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I think we are getting a bit warmed up right now. We are trying to keep an orderly House. I ask that we allow the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay to proceed with his speech. He has less than one minute to conclude, and then there are questions and comments that could be made during the 10 minutes following.
The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.
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Madam Speaker, I am really glad to know that my hon. colleague has a son. I do not know what that has to do with stopping me from talking about the failure of the Conservative leadership to deal with disinformation, falsehoods, paranoia and conspiracy.
I would think it would be in the interests of all our children if, as parliamentarians, we act like adults. Obviously that has not been happening with Bill C-11. I am going to be here all week. I sit and listen to disinformation and falsehoods every day, but I think it is really important that we are clear when we call it out.
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Madam Speaker, although my colleague talked a little about conspiracy theories, the Senate is the place of sober second thought. It looked at this bill in detail and brought in amendments, one of which is to try to exclude individual content.
The senators recognized that the CRTC really should not be determining what individuals are posting. Clause 4 looks at the extent to which a program contains a sound recording that has been assigned a unique identifier under an international standard system, the fact that the program has been uploaded to an online undertaking that provides a social media service, the fact that a program or significant part has been broadcast by a broadcast undertaking or that it is required to be carried on under a licence. This amendment was brought to make sure that those who are doing commercial business are overseen by the CRTC, but individual content is excluded.
The NDP, in their unholy marriage with the Liberals, have rejected this amendment. Could the member explain to the Canadian public why that is?
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Madam Speaker, I really want to thank my hon. colleague. I could say “Exhibit A”, and I could probably just sit down.
What is this “unholy marriage” stuff when it comes to parliamentary work? The Conservatives cannot do this without disinformation. I like my hon. colleague, but she was the member who believed that horse tranquillizers were going to help deal with COVID and ran on this obvious falsehood.
Let us talk about what the member is saying. I do not see anything in this bill saying that the son of Pierre Elliott Trudeau would be able to look at people's search functions. The Conservatives believe that, so—
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Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The individual on the other side of the floor continues to malign and treat other members in this House with great disrespect, as—
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- Mar/27/23 6:59:25 p.m.
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The hon. member knows that this is a matter for debate. On all sides, this is going on. There has been no name-calling. It is not unparliamentary language. I understand what the hon. member is saying, but it has been a very lively debate.
The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.
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Madam Speaker, I married my wife in the church. I have not been involved in any unholy marriages with any Liberals. Members could look that up.
Now, I bet there is probably a Reddit page run by Conservatives that would say otherwise. I feel the need to challenge that disinformation and that paranoia because I bet by tomorrow morning they are going to say that Klaus Schwab looked over the wedding, and it did not happen. I married my wife—
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- Mar/27/23 7:00:17 p.m.
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We are going to go to another question.
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Madam Speaker, I really want to thank the member for Timmins—James Bay for his intervention. I appreciated how he has been calling out some of the harmful, and frankly, disgusting rhetoric coming from the other side of the House.
Could the member explain to us what he thinks would happen to Canadian arts and culture if we did not have a Bill C-11 to hold these companies with market dominance on the Internet to account?
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Madam Speaker, this is a good question because, again, I am not totally sold that Bill C-11 is the best solution. However, I think it is a solution to making sure that the tech giants pay their share and that we actually pay into the arts system in Canada. The tech giants have not paid tax.
Again, I am sorry, but I have been in the House for 19 years, and I have never heard the Conservatives talk about artists before. Now, today, I have heard them denounce this as big art's union bosses, as though Jimmy Hoffa played the mandolin.
Their idea is whoever the guy is from Diagolon, right? They are YouTube broadcasters who are promoting ivermectin. They are worried about them, but I can tell them they do not need to worry. Nobody is going to stop all the insane conspiracy-driven hate and paranoia. However, we need to hold Facebook and YouTube to account for the algorithms because they are undermining democracy, and that is an obligation.
There was a time, just in 2018, when Conservatives, Liberals and New Democrats worked together because we recognized that threat. What we are dealing with now is a Conservative leader who believes that there is an opportunity in spreading disinformation.
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Madam Speaker, I laughed a lot during our colleague's speech. It was very colourful, but, at the same time, the substance of it was very worrisome.
When the leader of the official opposition gave a long speech to oppose Bill C-11, he went on and on singing the praises of the free market. I think that we are all in favour of a free market, but there are some areas, such as culture, where I think that does not apply. There are some areas where we need to rely on the government we have to help protect and regulate that culture, which may be thriving but is still, in many ways, more fragile than the U.S.-based web giants.
Can my colleague explain why the real danger is not government dictatorship but the dictatorship of the digital multinationals?
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Madam Speaker, the idea that the Conservatives are floating, that there is somehow a free market when one is dealing with YouTube and Facebook, is ridiculous. These are the largest broadcasters in the world because their algorithms decide what one sees. The idea that this is all some kind of free market is a falsehood.
Maybe the Conservatives just discovered the Internet a few years ago, but there is no longer a free Internet. It is a very controlled Internet. It is the algorithms.
One of the fundamental principles we fought for in Canada is the need to promote, preserve and ensure that Canadian, francophone and indigenous voices have a place in Canada to have their stories told. We can sell that to the world. In fact, our greatest export from Canada is not our oil and gas. It is our artists, and we need to support them.
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Madam Speaker, I want to start by sharing with the member for Timmins—James Bay, and he is aware, that I agree with him. There is so much good in Bill C-11. There is no censorship in it. We need to cut through that noise.
However, I think it is fair to offer constructive criticism and concern. At committee last June, it was my view that we lost potentially good amendments because of animosity between Liberals and Conservatives. My hope was that the Senate might look to improve the bill and suggest amendments. Particularly, amendments could focus on ensuring that if a musician like the member for Timmins—James Bay in my community were to post a show on YouTube, it would not be open to regulation from the CRTC.
Could the member for Timmins—James Bay share whether he is concerned about this with respect to Bill C-11 as well?
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Madam Speaker, I certainly think that Bill C-11 could have been better. Moreover, I think the CRTC is an extremely cumbersome instrument to deal with this. However, the Conservatives decided to take this absolutely extreme, paranoid position as opposed to saying, “What do we actually need to do to make sure this works?”
There were probably better ways to do this, but we were not given those options, given the realm. I have been an artist, and I know many people in the arts community. I certainly want to reassure the artists I know.
I do not know those who are concerned that if they post a YouTube video, the CRTC is somehow going to watch it. We can imagine if it did. Would that not be fascinating? That is not what this bill is about. It is about making sure that the tech giants pay their share.
I think there were better ways of dealing with this legislation and making sure that these tech giants are held to account. I certainly believe that, out of Bill C-11, we still need to deal with the issue of accountability in the algorithms. Certainly, there are issues with the tech giants in their refusal to deal with online harm for children and the vulnerable, the exploitation of people that has happened and the proliferation of hate and violence that we have seen in jurisdictions like Myanmar, Sri Lanka and Brazil. There have to be legal consequences. I think we need to look at those issues beyond where we are tonight with Bill C-11.
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