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May/4/23 12:06:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member for Vancouver East gave a very passionate speech, as we have all attested to. We very much value and appreciate her comments. It is not just about China. There are other countries. An attack on one member is an attack on all members of the chamber. When death threats are made against members, all members universally acknowledge that we have to do what we can to fight for our democracy. Does the member believe that the special rapporteur has any role at all in looking at this and reporting back to the government?

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Ms. Jenny Kwan

May/4/23 12:06:17 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the government should have initiated a completely independent public inquiry. It should have engaged all party leaders in the House to agree to a process and a commissioner, so there would be no question about who would be leading this work and the mandate related to it. There would need to be interim reporting of this work so we would put an end to it. All this bickering about who knew what, when, where, how, etc., could be investigated under a national inquiry so there would be no blaming this way, that way and the other way. In the meantime, what is absolutely essential as well, is for other work to be under way, which is why New Democrats support this motion. As an example, we support a foreign agent registry. We support fully that the police stations operated by the Communist Chinese government should be shut down. Equally important, there should be absolute accountability by those countries that are interfering with our democracy. There has to be accountability and measures taken to send a clear message that, no matter what country is attempting to do this, Canada will not tolerate it.

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Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP)

May/4/23 12:07:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to start by paying tribute to the speech that we all just heard in the House. These are words that we need to live by, not only through the debate during the course of today, but also in the coming weeks as we work through these issues. I want to pay tribute to the member for Vancouver East for what she has told us on the floor of the House today. I hope that we all listened. As members are well aware, last night I rose in the House on behalf of the NDP to reinforce the question of privilege that was raised by the member for Wellington—Halton Hills. To my mind and New Democrats' minds, there is absolutely no doubt that what he raised as a question of privilege is a question of privilege, which should be moved in the House as quickly as possible. That, of course, is the Speaker's decision and prerogative. The NDP brought extensive additional material to the very eloquent question of privilege that was raised by the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, and I certainly hope the speakership will make a decision in a timely way in this regard. There is no doubt that this debate needs to be heard on the floor of the House. As I mentioned last night, there is no doubt that it meets the criteria for a question of privilege. That, of course, is in the Speaker's purview and the Speaker's decision. I hope the decision will be made soon. As has already been said many times, the NDP supports today's motion. We support the four measures. The NDP has been pushing for such measures to be taken for a long time. As the member for Vancouver East just told us, this is not about Chinese interference alone. We believe it is absolutely fundamental to implement measures to address all foreign interference, whether it is from China, Russia, India or Iran. It is important to implement those measures. With respect to an independent public inquiry, the NDP moved a motion at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs that was debated. I will ask some questions about that a little later. The motion was debated and moved in the House. Members will recall that the NDP motion calling for an independent public inquiry to be launched immediately was adopted almost unanimously in the House. Only one party, the Liberal Party, did not vote in favour of the motion. I do not know why. The other opposition parties and the independent members all voted in favour of this important motion. As the member for Vancouver East just said so eloquently, it is important that this be put in place with the agreement of all the recognized parties in the House. It is one thing we could do together to strengthen our democracy and prevent this foreign interference from having any impact. If we stand together, if all members work together, if the government works with the opposition, if all the opposition parties work with the government, then we could come up with the answers that Canadians from all backgrounds are demanding. As the member for Vancouver East said very clearly, it is also important that these answers ensure that we can stand together as a country. It is important that we launch this inquiry. Now, I have no doubt that the special rapporteur will come to same conclusion in a few weeks because we cannot ignore the will of the vast majority of members of the House. Democracy counts. The decisions we make together count. The fact that the independent members and the members from the Green Party, the Conservative Party, the Bloc Québécois and the NDP all voted the same way adds weight to the decision that should be made by the special rapporteur, as well as to the recommendations he will make in the next three weeks. There is no doubt that, with these recommendations, the government will have to jump into action and quickly launch this public inquiry. That is extremely important. I cannot add to the eloquence that the member for Vancouver East provided us with to reflect on in the House of Commons moving forward. We cannot be partisan about this. We cannot be pointing fingers. That is why the leader for the NDP, the member for Burnaby South, wrote to the Prime Minister this week asking the Prime Minister to bring together the four recognized party leaders to ensure we can put in place a strong foundation. The NDP has pushed for a national public inquiry. We believe it is vital at this point. We believe that all members of Parliament are operating with good faith on this issue. We understand that, if we start to snipe at each other, we are undermining our democratic systems and the values that are so dear to Canadians. We have to work together. That is the essence of the letter from the member for Burnaby South to the Prime Minister. We hope that will be promptly followed up on in the coming days. This is something that should concern all of us. It does concern all Canadians. By putting these measures in place, including a national public inquiry, we would end up providing the answers that Canadians need. As I mentioned, the question of privilege from the member for Wellington—Halton Hills is a part of the debate that we need to have in the House. We have raised and supported the concerns about foreign interference from China. I do want to raise similar concerns, as CSIS has, about foreign interference coming from Russia. CSIS, in its latest report, states very clearly that Russian cyber-actors continue to pose a significant threat to Canada. We remember that, just a little over a year ago the convoy took over downtown Ottawa. It deprived the freedoms of so many residents of this area. Families were deprived of being able to sleep at night. Seniors were deprived of the freedom to get groceries delivered. People with disabilities were deprived of their freedom to get essential medication. As we know now, from the series of articles published in the National Observer, as well as many other analysis that were done, there was substantial foreign interference in providing supports to that convoy with all the results we have seen. It is clear that, when we talk about foreign interference, we need to be concerned about that too. We need to be concerned about the evidence of interference from the government of China. We need to be concerned about the evidence that points to interference from state actors with the Russian regime as well. There have been disturbing reports from the diaspora from India and Iran that those governments may be participating in foreign interference and putting pressure on Canadians with origins in those countries. They are trying to have an impact in our democratic system as well. These are profoundly disturbing allegations. We need to work together co-operatively with all members of the House of Commons and all parties. That starts with the meeting the member for Burnaby South has requested. It also starts with the government needing the recommendation to put in place a national, independent public inquiry into the issue of foreign interference. It also starts with us having a debate in the House today that is in keeping with the words from the member for Vancouver East indicating that we work together, that we work in solidarity, that we work to enhance our democratic system and that we work in a way that makes Canadians proud of the debate we are having in the House of Commons.

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Mr. Warren Steinley (Regina—Lewvan, CPC)

May/4/23 12:17:57 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, after listening to the member's speech, I hope he will support this motion going forward. The member for Winnipeg North and the member for Kingston and the Islands, in the House this morning, said that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills knew about the harassment toward his family and himself through a briefing two years ago. I am a father of three kids. Do you think that anyone in the House who knew there were harassment allegations and foreign interference from a foreign country would not bring those allegations forward if they thought their family was in trouble or in danger? Do you agree that a member in the House would know about that and not bring it forward to the government after the CSIS briefing? Do you agree with the member for Winnipeg North and the member for Kingston and the Islands that the member did not take his family's security seriously? Do you believe they should be victim blaming our member for Wellington—Halton Hills?

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The Deputy Speaker

May/4/23 12:18:53 p.m.
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I appreciate the question but please make sure it is directed through the Chair. The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

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Mr. Peter Julian

May/4/23 12:19:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, yes, we are supporting the motion, in response to his first question. In response to his second question, I was not in the House for this exchange. I am not going to impugn any members for anything they might have said, particularly if I have not been there to witness it. I will say, as I stated at the outset, that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills is an honourable member who has served his country in a remarkably effective way. His question of privilege, I believe, should be upheld by the speakership, although that is not in my hands. Any question of him being dishonourable I would strongly react to and say simply that this is not something that any member should be questioning in the House.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate), Lib.)

May/4/23 12:20:02 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, to correct the record, what I have been saying is that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills received a defensive briefing from CSIS. I do not know the content of what was said and I have not said that—

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The Deputy Speaker

May/4/23 12:20:17 p.m.
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The hon. member for Edmonton—Wetaskiwin is rising on a point of order.

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Hon. Mike Lake

May/4/23 12:20:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, because the hon. member used the phrase “to correct the record”, to correct the record myself, the hon. member used the phrase “supposedly affected” in regard to the member for Wellington—Halton Hills today. He now has a chance to stand up and apologize.

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The Deputy Speaker

May/4/23 12:20:40 p.m.
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The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands is rising on a point of order.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen

May/4/23 12:20:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the context in which he is suggesting that I said that was different. I certainly would ask that the record reflect that I did not intend to suggest that it was “supposed”. If the member says it, I take the member's word for it. I do apologize if that is what the Conservatives have been hung up on. I have been saying all along that he received a defensive briefing. I do not know the content of it. We do not know the content of it, but we will take his word when he says that he knew nothing about this. My question is, if we should take his word that he knew nothing about it, and I do agree with that, should we not also take the word of the member for Papineau, who said that he was not briefed on this until last Monday?

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Mr. Peter Julian

May/4/23 12:21:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, let us dial things down. I would say that I have had defensive briefings that have had no detail to them at all. I believe the member for Wellington—Halton Hills because I know him to be a very honourable person and I also believe that his question of privilege is a valid one. I hope that the House will be seized with the debate around that at some point, but that is up to the Speaker.

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Mr. Denis Trudel (Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, BQ)

May/4/23 12:22:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the elephant in the room that no one is talking about right now is that Canada is a bit of a fantasyland where people wear rose-coloured glasses. People do not realize that Canada is a bit of a small fry among the major nations and when it comes to big international issues. It is as though we just discovered that the major world powers are watching what is happening in other countries. Over the past few months, we have been talking about interference in the electoral process and Chinese police stations. How can the government allow a foreign power to open outposts to keep tabs on residents of our country? Nevertheless, that is being done openly. No one said anything for months and then it happened. Chinese balloons flew over Canada. We never really found out how that could have happened or why we do not have a system to protect us from that kind of thing. Huge balloons flew over the country, but we do not really know how the government reacted. A spy was also arrested. He worked for Hydro‑Québec and was taking photographs. We know that Hydro‑Québec is conducting research on electric motors. One of its employees was working for the Chinese government, secretly taking photographs and telling the Chinese government all about the research being done in Canada. Does my colleague not think that Canada is a total fantasyland?

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Mr. Peter Julian

May/4/23 12:24:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I find that really sad. I have already said that we must be less hostile when we work together. The Bloc Québécois member is using this issue to attack Canada. He has the right to be a sovereignist. He has a right to his beliefs, but I think it is extremely inappropriate for him to attack Canada in this context at a time when all of us, Quebeckers and Canadians, should be working together. It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I find the Bloc Québécois's reaction really inappropriate at a time when everyone should be working together and be united in our efforts to protect our democracy.

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Hon. Mike Lake (Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, CPC)

May/4/23 12:25:08 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member for New Westminster—Burnaby kind of touched on this as a long-serving member of the House. I want to also express my solidarity and my admiration for the Conservative member for Wellington—Halton Hills, whom we have been talking a lot about this morning. Perhaps members from all sides can recognize the important contributions that member has made over the years to this place and to our country. I also want to recognize that the member of Parliament for Vancouver East gave a very heartfelt and personal speech as well today, which might have been a bit missed because of some of the chaos going on because of some of the comments made earlier by two Liberal members of Parliament, which I am going to get to in a second. Quite honestly, I am astonished we are even here today. I am astonished, because when I take a look at the language in this motion, I just cannot believe that any of this at this point in time has not already been done. I cannot believe that we do not have a foreign agent registry. It is astonishing that we have not had a national public inquiry started on the matter of foreign election interference. I cannot believe that we have the People's Republic of China operating police stations right here in Canada. I certainly cannot believe that the diplomat in question and others have not been expelled from our country at this point in time, this far into this process. However, even more so, I am astonished that, despite all of the things I was prepared to say, I will probably talk very little about them today because of the way this debate started. When the hon. member for St. Albert—Edmonton stood to open this debate today, immediately members from the Liberal Party started to heckle and mock, laughing about the situation. I will point out that both of the members I will refer to are parliamentary secretaries to the House leader of their party. They are both in their party's leadership. They have been around this House for a long time. To hear the member for Kingston and the Islands in a question refer to the member for Wellington—Halton Hills as "supposedly affected by” the situation, to me—

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The Deputy Speaker

May/4/23 12:27:34 p.m.
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The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands is rising on a point of order.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen

May/4/23 12:27:39 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, on this point of order, I have since apologized for that and asked that it be removed from the record at that member's request.

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The Deputy Speaker

May/4/23 12:27:47 p.m.
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That is not a point of order, but a good clarification. The hon. member for Edmonton—Wetaskiwin.

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Hon. Mike Lake

May/4/23 12:27:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, continuing my comments, if we actually listen to what the member for Kingston and the Islands said, he said, “if Conservatives were bothered by it”. That was the caveat he added when he mentioned that just a few minutes ago— Mr. Mark Gerretsen: That's not what I said. That's not what I said. Hon. Mike Lake: That is what you said. I am not going to get into a heckling match, because that is how we got into this challenge in the first place. There were about four members at the time, including those two members, who were laughing as the conversation was happening specifically related to the member for Wellington—Halton Hills and the—

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The Deputy Speaker

May/4/23 12:28:28 p.m.
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The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader is rising on a point of order.

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