SoVote

May/4/23 3:59:26 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, what we have are accusations and information. CSIS gathers that information, and its officials determine at what point it reaches a certain threshold to involve and advise different levels of government. They advise what to do in certain circumstances based on meeting or not meeting various thresholds. If we have a problem with that, then our job as lawmakers is to change the law to make modifications, just as the Prime Minister did when he learned about this. The Prime Minister was shocked about it. He said that, from now on, he wants to know about anything that has to do with any MP.

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Hon. Michael Chong (Wellington—Halton Hills, CPC)

May/4/23 4:00:16 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is not new information that the PRC is targeting the families of Canadians in the PRC to coerce and intimidate Canadians here on Canadian soil. That is not new information. We have known for years that the PRC uses these coercive tactics, in democracies like Canada, to intimidate citizens in these democracies into silence or into other actions in order to mould the debate in democracies, in order to threaten democracies and in order to get their version of an authoritarian world promulgated around the world. That is not new. We have known this for years, through investigative reports by journalists at reputable publications, through committees of the House, both in the current Parliament and in the previous Parliament, and through reports of government agencies and services. We have known about this for years, and not just in Canada. We have known about this taking place in other democracies. We have known, for example, that Canadians here in Canada who are advocating for democracy and civil rights in Hong Kong, who are advocating for free expression, for the freedom to associate and for freedom of the press have been targeted by the PRC, and that their families back home have been threatened. We have known that those advocating here in Canada for the human rights of Uyghurs, Tibetans and other minorities in the People's Republic of China have had their families in the PRC threatened by the PRC. What is new is that, two years ago, the government did nothing when it came to its attention that a diplomat working in Canada, with the approval of the Canadian government, was targeting me and other members of the House in an attempt to change the course of the debate, to attempt to intimidate MPs into voting a certain way on the floor of the House. That is what is new here. That is the issue here. Madam Speaker, I would like to split my time with the opposition whip. That is the new information at play here. When the government knew, it did nothing. It was not until the information became public several days ago that the government started to treat this seriously. That is shocking. What else is going on that is threatening the national security of this country that is threatening the safety and security of Canadians here on Canadian soil that we do not know about and that the government is doing nothing about? The Prime Minister and the public safety minister say they did not know until this past Monday that a PRC diplomat was targeting me and other members of the House. That is astounding. That is unbelievable. That should shake everyone in Ottawa to the core. The Prime Minister is responsible for the machinery of government. I want to quote from “Open and Accountable Government”, which says that “the Prime Minister forms a team, decides on the process for collective decision making, and builds and adapts the machinery of government in which the team will operate.” The Prime Minister is responsible for the machinery of government. The Prime Minister is also responsible for “the broad organization and structure of the government.” I would like to quote again from “Open and Accountable Government”, which is a document of the Privy Council Office: The Prime Minister determines the broad organization and structure of the government in order to meet its objectives. The Prime Minister is responsible for allocating Ministers’ portfolios, establishing their mandates, clarifying the relationships among them and identifying the priorities for their portfolios through mandate letters. The Prime Minister’s approval is required for the creation of new institutions and the elimination of existing organizations, some of which may also be subject to parliamentary decisions. Any proposals made by Ministers for significant organizational change or for altering their own mandates or those of other Ministers must first be approved by the Prime Minister. Here is the most astounding part: The Prime Minister is responsible for national security. I will quote from “Open and Accountable Government”, which says, “As head of government, the Prime Minister has special responsibilities for national security, federal-provincial-territorial relations and the conduct of international [relations].” The Prime Minister is responsible not only for the machinery of government, how information flows and how the Canadian Security Intelligence Service transmits information to the other parts of the Government of Canada. He is responsible not only for the broad organizational structure of the government. The Prime Minister is also responsible for national security. For him to be the head of a government he has set up in such a way that he does not even know what national security threats are being directed towards members of the House and their families is a complete abdication of his responsibility It really calls into question how safe and secure we are in this country. We know that the Prime Minister privately told NATO officials that Canada was never going to meet its 2% commitment. Despite the war in Ukraine having begun over a year ago, Canada's defence spending remains stuck at 1.3%, well below the Wales Summit Declaration commitment made in 2014. Despite the threats that we have been facing in the form of foreign interference threat activities, nothing has been done. We have not seen a single diplomat expelled. We have not seen the introduction of a foreign agents registry. We have not had a single prosecution that has led to an arrest of individuals in this country who are intimidating and coercing Canadians here on Canadian soil on the part of a foreign government. We have had no action from the government. Other countries have taken action. In recent weeks, we have heard about the FBI arresting individuals in the United States for setting up illegal police stations. One of those individuals happens to be the same individual who helped set up an illegal police station here in Canada. We have had other democratic allies expel diplomats for coercive and clandestine behaviour. In fact, Germany just expelled dozens of diplomats of the Russian Federation in order to protect its citizens, because those diplomats were engaged in subversive activities. Since the war began in Ukraine, over 400 Russian diplomats have been expelled by American and European governments. Not one has been expelled from Canada. Not one diplomat from the People's Republic of China has been expelled for their intimidation and coercion here on Canadian soil. This is happening not just to me and to other members of the House. This foreign interference is also happening to Canadians across the land who suffer in silence, as their government cannot even be bothered to learn about national security threats that PRC diplomats are conducting across the land. It is absolutely, gobsmackingly astounding that the Prime Minister did not know about what was going on. What else does the Prime Minister not know concerning what is going on with the safety and security of this country? He clearly does not care about properly funding our Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces. Now, it is quite clear he does not care about learning about serious national security threats to the members of the House and their families and the threats that are being presented to Canadians across the land. I close by saying that thousands of Canadians across this land suffer in silence, and have been suffering in silence for years, because their families are being intimidated by authoritarian states back home, whether it is in the People's Republic of China, the Islamic Republic of Iran or other authoritarian states. People have been suffering in silence, and the government has not even had the interest to follow what is going on with these threat activities. The Prime Minister did not know and the public safety minister did not know, because they did not care to set up the machinery of government, the broad organizational structure, in order to ensure that they did know so they could take action to protect Canadians.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

May/4/23 4:10:43 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as the government— An hon. member: You had better open with an apology, Kevin.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/4/23 4:10:48 p.m.
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Can we have some order, please? The hon. parliamentary secretary has the floor.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

May/4/23 4:10:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as the government has recognized and said, an offence on one member of Parliament is an offence on all members of Parliament. We should all be concerned. It is one of the reasons we have seen literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of government investment in places like the Board of Internal Economy to ensure that MPs have things such as panic buttons and cameras around homes. We have seen all sorts of actions, such as legislative initiatives, to deal with the issue of election interference and foreign interference. At the end of the day, I would suggest to the member that, when we take a look at the— An hon. member: Apologize.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/4/23 4:11:45 p.m.
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Can we let the hon. member ask his question without interruptions, please? An hon. member: After he apologizes. The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Can we let the hon. member ask his question? The Speaker made a ruling, and we will wait until the Speaker comes back to the House. The hon. parliamentary secretary.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

May/4/23 4:12:01 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, to imply in any way that the Prime Minister did nothing, when the Conservatives know, first-hand, that he found out earlier this week, is highly irresponsible. If the member believes that all members are honourable members, would he not agree that the Prime Minister found out for the first time this week?

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Hon. Michael Chong

May/4/23 4:12:33 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Prime Minister is responsible for ensuring that he sets up the machinery of government and the broad organizational structure of the government to ensure that he is informed about national security issues. The Prime Minister is responsible for the government's relationship to this place, Parliament. The fact that the Prime Minister set things up in such a way that he did not know is shocking. It is like the head of a government of a G7 country saying to the chief of the defence staff for the armed forces that he does not actually want to know if there is an intrusion into our airspace. It is like saying, “I don't want to know when that happens; don't bother telling me.” That is essentially what has happened here, with the Prime Minister setting things up in such a way that he was not informed about these things.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

May/4/23 4:13:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my heart goes out to the member for Wellington—Halton Hills. I would like to ask him this. The government's blunders are piling up. Just consider the Trudeau Foundation, the appointment of an independent rapporteur who is not independent, or the failure to notify the member in a case like this or to formally crack down on foreign interference. Is this not the very essence of what it means to undermine public trust in the government?

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Hon. Michael Chong

May/4/23 4:14:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his very important question. It is beyond belief that the Prime Minister would structure the government in a way that prevents the Prime Minister from knowing what is going on with national security. It is absolutely incredible that the Prime Minister set things up this way. It really shakes me to the core, and should shake Canadians to the core, that, clearly, the national security of this country is not a concern of the Prime Minister or the government.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

May/4/23 4:14:50 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I again want to express my sympathy to my colleague from Wellington—Halton Hills for what he and his family have had to endure. I appreciate the fact that he brought up that this is something Chinese Canadians have dealt with for a very long time, as have Iranian Canadians and also a number of Canadians across this country who have been telling us in this place for many years, for decades in fact, that this is real and that these threats against them are real. We have called for a public inquiry. We support the call for a foreign registry. We find ourselves in this situation, and clearly mistakes were made. Clearly, the government acted completely inappropriately. I would like to hear from the member for Wellington—Halton Hills what the most urgent thing we need to do, right now, is. What is the thing we could do right now that would help fix this problem?

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Hon. Michael Chong

May/4/23 4:15:50 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, one of the immediate things that need to happen is that the government needs to immediately introduce a foreign agents registry so that we can debate it here in the House and get it adopted as quickly as possible. The government also needs to expel Mr. Wei Zhao, a diplomat located at the consulate on St. George Street in Toronto. Now that this information is public, the government, in my view, has no option but to expel this diplomat. Otherwise, we are putting up a massive billboard for the world to see that we are open for foreign interference threat activities and that there will be little or no consequence, other than a day march, to be chewed out by the deputy minister, for these authoritarian states. Those are just two measures that should be immediately undertaken.

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay (South Surrey—White Rock, CPC)

May/4/23 4:16:47 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, Canada's democracy is under threat. Its citizens and its institutions of governance are under threat, and this is a serious moment in our history as a nation. Canada has been under threat before and fought for its place among the family of nations that believe in peace, stability, the rule of law and protection of the citizens from adversaries within and without. Canada, as it exists today, would not have been possible without the sacrifices, deprivations and evolution of many peoples, both indigenous and those who arrived later, coming together over time to fight alongside one another to forge a nation whose citizens pride themselves on upholding individual freedom, human dignity and enthusiasm for a way of life that is envied around the world. As Winston Churchill famously said, “No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time”. This Conservative opposition day motion recognizes that we have to fight and protect our citizens again. As chief opposition whip, I have the added duty to stand up for the members of Parliament who comprise His Majesty's loyal opposition in this special place, this House of Commons, the House that represents the common people of Canada, elected from ridings from coast to coast to coast. We have a green carpet, representing the grass beneath our feet, the colour of the pasture in the greenwood, of the village green used by all: in other words, the colour of the common men and women. We have a common home and we should protect it. There are no titles of distinction in this place that give one person's vote more weight than another's. I have the “Honourable” designation before my name as a former minister and privy councillor, but my vote in Parliament remains one, as is the privilege of every other member of Parliament. That vote counts for something. That vote represents a whole district of Canadians who voted to give me and each person the honour of being in this chamber, their voices to be put forward and amplified often into law after debate. Those laws govern Canadians equally, and we believe in equality before the law. Where there is injustice or unfairness, we have mechanisms to deal with those human failings: an imperfectly, entirely human system, yes; a flawless system, no. However, our Canadian system is as good as any in the world and strives to uphold its founding principles of peace, order and good government. We are a welcoming place for new Canadians to come and make it their home. No matter the date of their arrival into the Canadian family, they should have the protection of this nation's government. That any member of this House would find themselves under threat for a vote taken in this place for any reason, but particularly to uphold human rights in this country or any other country in this world, is an affront to our democracy. Let us speak some truth in this House today. Political interference and intimidation of Canadian citizens was rampant and pervasive in the last election and, as we now know, the previous elections as well. In my province and riding, we have a sizable community of citizens of Chinese ancestry. They love their country of origin, its beauty, its art and culture, its language, its prominence in all areas of endeavour. They have enriched Canada in all aspects of life: the arts, literature, music, academia, business and, yes, even politics. We are all better for their contributions to this land and their leadership, historically under the harshest of conditions as labourers building a national railway that united us. Excluded from many aspects of citizenship, they were among our World War I and World War II soldiers, and they are today valued. These are the Canadian citizens who took my volunteers and me aside during the last election and, with tears in their eyes, asked us to turn off our phones so we could speak in their backyards because they believed they were under surveillance by Beijing and if seen talking to a Conservative, they would be punished by Beijing, either directly or through their family members still living in China. They were told through WeChat and similar online groups, which I have seen, that China had people in every polling booth in Canada who would scan their voting cards and know if they voted Conservative. They were told that Conservatives wanted a foreign registry to register every person of Chinese ethnicity in Canada so that they could later be rounded up, like the Japanese were during World War II, and have their assets confiscated. Therefore, they stayed home and their absence affected who sits in this House now. Today, many of these same spokespersons are publicly saying that the call for a foreign agent registry, similar to the ones in Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States, is Chinese exclusion 2.0: false, false, false. It is completely false. There was and is an orchestrated campaign by a foreign country publicly admired by the Prime Minister, with books of praise written about it by his brother Alexandre Trudeau, and his father Pierre Trudeau many years ago, to interfere with and campaign against votes in this House and the votes in a democratic election. As I stated earlier, it is my duty as chief opposition whip to stand in defence of the rights and privileges of every member of the House, not just my caucus colleague from Wellington—Halton Hills. After all, and I heard this repeated from the government side today, a threat made against one of us is a threat against all of us. This House must demonstrate a collaborative, non-partisan response, yet we see that both parliamentary secretaries have repeatedly engaged in victim blaming today. Let us be very clear: CSIS did not make known to the member for Wellington—Halton Hills that threats were being made against his family. He was given only a general briefing. I had the same briefing, very general, about how foreign governments, and several foreign governments were highlighted, seek to influence Canadian politics and politicians, and how they might go about doing so: they might infiltrate an office or volunteer in a campaign. We were told about these things. There was nothing specific and nothing personal whatsoever. The member for Wellington—Halton Hills has been clear in public statements and before the press that he never had “numerous” briefings from CSIS, as the Minister of Public Safety repeatedly declared in the House yesterday. The assertions from the government benches today that he, the victim, has known details for two years and that he, the victim, did nothing about it are irresponsible, completely false and meant to deflect from the government's past and ongoing failure to protect its citizens of Chinese descent from intimidation, coercion or manipulation that we know is real and is playing itself out across this country on a daily basis. However, CSIS did advise the Liberal government about these threats. This information would have been brought to the attention of the public safety minister, the foreign minister and the Prime Minister. Those ministers need to be clear about what they learned and what they did about it. To say nothing, as the Minister of Public Safety and the foreign minister did previously in this House, or for the Prime Minister to tell a scrum yesterday that he just learned about it through the news, is a dereliction of the duty to protect the citizens of this country writ large and the privileges of the members of this House. As the member just stated, it is a dereliction of the duty to put into place the mechanisms that would make sure that those people knew. Who else are Canadians to turn to? This is another abject failure and another “I am just an observer” Prime Minister answer. No wonder CSIS members are frustrated and talking to the press. No wonder Canadians have lost faith in the government. They cannot trust their safety or protection to the Prime Minister anymore. I ask all members to support our calls to action: the creation of a foreign agent registry; the establishment of a public inquiry; the closing down of Beijing-run police stations operating in Canada, including some in B.C.; and the expulsion of Beijing's diplomats responsible. We call on the government and the Prime Minister to show up, stand up and do the hard work of governing this nation.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

May/4/23 4:26:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I believe the Prime Minister and the government will continue to build upon the work that we have already been able to do. We have put in place—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/4/23 4:26:43 p.m.
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I have to interrupt the hon. member. The hon. member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands has a point of order.

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Mr. Jeremy Patzer

May/4/23 4:26:47 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, no less than five times today I have stood up in the House and I have asked the member across to apologize to the member for Wellington—Halton Hills for impugning his integrity—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/4/23 4:27:04 p.m.
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The Speaker has made a statement on this matter, and the Speaker will come back to the House. The hon. parliamentary secretary.

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Secretary

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

May/4/23 4:27:09 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as I have indicated, the government has been building and will continue to build upon the work that we have done over the last number of years dealing with election interference and the issues that we have before us today. We have commissioned a special rapporteur, a former Stephen Harper appointment, the hon. Mr. Johnston, to conduct a report, which could ultimately bring in a request for a public inquiry. Will the Conservative Party of Canada support what the former governor general brings back to Parliament?

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

May/4/23 4:27:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is true that David Johnston served honourably as our Governor General, but that was before he was chosen by this government to be the overseer of the election debates, and it was before he was named to the Trudeau Foundation as a director, a position he finally stepped down from after there were complaints that it put him in a rank conflict of interest, because the Trudeau Foundation had received $140,000 to $200,000, depending on the reports, from someone attempting to influence the government. That is why we said that it should be someone completely independent of this government, completely independent of the Trudeau Foundation, who would look into any of these matters. We are calling for a public inquiry now, and they should vote for it.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

May/4/23 4:28:51 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics recently heard from the chair of the EU Parliament's committee on foreign interference and disinformation. Raphaël Glucksmann told the committee that China's strategy was to sow chaos in the countries it targets. He also told us that the Chinese ideogram for writing “chaos” is the same as that for writing “opportunity”. Can my hon. colleague believe that this chaos that has prevailed in this place since the beginning of this week is due to the actions of the Chinese government, which are paralyzing the House and forcing us to react to an extremely serious subject, but which is blocking the work of Parliament on foreign interference?

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