44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 9, 2023 10:00AM
- May/9/23 4:25:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, using “disinformation” was brought up earlier today. It implies that members across the way are lying. Especially being the Minister of Public Safety and knowing the law in this country, he should know the law in this place, which is that one cannot say indirectly what one is not supposed to say directly. I would ask, once again, for the member to apologize.
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- May/9/23 4:26:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, if the member is correct and disinformation is not permitted in the House, virtually every single question from Conservatives during question period would be ruled out of order.
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- May/9/23 4:26:14 p.m.
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On the same point of order, the hon. member for Courtenay—Alberni.
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- May/9/23 4:26:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am going back again to disinformation. We keep hearing Conservatives telling hunters and people who live in rural Canada that their guns would be taken away by this legislation, which is completely false. We want to get to committee to work through the amendments so we can ensure that hunters and indigenous people continue to obtain their right to hunt and that they not lose their weapons. In fact—
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- May/9/23 4:26:48 p.m.
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We are descending into debate.
On the same point of order, the hon. member for Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies.
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- May/9/23 4:26:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member should apologize as well. He knows very well that, at the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, we proved hunting rifles were on the banned—
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- May/9/23 4:27:02 p.m.
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We are descending into the debate we are having. This is the interpretation.
The hon. parliamentary secretary, on a point of order.
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- May/9/23 4:27:07 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am just curious if there are any other members who should be apologizing to this member. Should the 337 of us all apologize to him?
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- May/9/23 4:27:15 p.m.
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How about this? On behalf of everyone, I will just apologize.
Let us just continue with the debate.
The hon. member for Port Moody—Coquitlam has the floor.
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- May/9/23 4:27:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we were in the House until midnight last night with the same sort of childish antics going back and forth. While these are going on, while people are asking to be apologized to and talking about their feelings being hurt, children in my community are being killed by guns, ghost guns, illegal guns. This is what we are talking about. We are talking about the balance between those law-abiding gun owners who deserve and want the right to be able to use their firearms in a responsible way and families who are losing children, along with women who are intimidated and hurt by guns that are not legally allowed in this country.
If the minister does not mind, could he just explain again why we cannot go through 145 amendments at this pace and still save lives in this country?
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- May/9/23 4:28:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I know my NDP colleague's concerns are genuinely felt in her community, as they are felt in mine and indeed right across the country.
With regard to her specific question on ghost guns, we recently had a cross-border crime forum summit here in Ottawa with our American counterparts. What we are seeing coming out of that are concrete results, such as more capacity to trace illegal guns and more opportunities to leverage new technology to go after ghost guns. Ghost guns are a concern that has been expressed to me by chiefs from law enforcement right across the country. It is by doing this tangible work in collaboration with the United States that we are going to be able to build on the record number of illegal firearms that were seized at the border last year and leverage new technology to go after ghost guns to keep her community safe, and keep all our communities safe, from gun violence.
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- May/9/23 4:29:32 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, guns and gangs are a real problem in Thunder Bay. The other day, there was a shootout in a housing complex. People are genuinely worried about the problem in Thunder Bay.
Could the minister please talk about his announcement this morning about giving more money to police forces to deal with guns and gangs, and how this may help us in Thunder Bay to deal with this problem of guns?
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- May/9/23 4:30:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, in fact, as I mentioned earlier during this debate, yesterday the government announced an additional $390 million that will go directly to support law enforcement to dismantle and take down organized criminals who use guns. I would also point out that the original bill, in its proper form, includes raising maximum sentences against hardened gun traffickers as a means of deterring them. It also would provide law enforcement with additional tools around wiretapping and surveillance so that they can share information and use that to disturb, dismantle and stop organized criminal networks that use guns to support and supply their trade.
I have assured the member that we will work closely with the province and his community to see that their work in Thunder Bay is supported as well.
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Mr. Speaker, we have a real problem with gangs and violence. Violent crime is skyrocketing. We are talking about Bill C-21, which talks about taking legal guns from legal gun owners.
I want to ask the minister, since the government uses evidence-based policies, what percentage of crimes are committed by people with illegal guns, and what percentage are committed by people who have actual legal guns? The answer to the second is going to be zero. After 35 years in policing, I know that answer. Why not put that money into education programs and forget Bill C-21? Scrap Bill C-21. It would not be effective.
I agree that we need to have gun laws, but the government is targeting people who have legal guns. Why not go after the ones who have illegal guns, the criminals?
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Mr. Speaker, there are at least two serious mistakes in the premise of the Conservative member's question. The first is that we are not going after criminals. In Bill C-21, as I have just mentioned, we would raise maximum sentences from 10 to 14 years for illegal gun traffickers. That is an important and powerful signal to anyone who would try to terrorize our communities that they will run the risk of going to jail for a longer period of time.
The Conservative member also referred to prevention. That is precisely what the government is doing with a $250-million building safer communities fund. I would point out that the Conservatives have opposed the building safer communities fund's allocations, which will save lives through prevention by providing mental health services and other supports for people who are at most risk. The Conservatives are also against Bill C-21, which would give law enforcement the additional tools to go after criminals who use firearms to commit crimes. That is why their position is so misguided.
On this side of the House, we are doing the work. We are making sure that we pass responsible gun control legislation, but we are also taking action at the border and advancing strong prevention strategies.
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- May/9/23 4:33:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the minister could elaborate on the engagement and consultation that have been carried out with rural communities in general. I am thinking in particular of hunting organizations and sport shooting organizations, with engagement that has ultimately led to the bill currently under consideration, in its revised form.
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Mr. Speaker, I can assure my hon. colleague from London that, as he knows, we have been working with rural communities and first nations communities right across the country.
In fact, I have spent a good, considerable period of time with a number of experts in gaming and hunting in the Yukon, where I had a chance to see how they participate in their traditions. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the way in which they participate in their traditions in a way that is safe and secure. I have also assured them, as we have done with indigenous communities, that this bill would reflect their lived experiences. What does that mean in plain and simple terms? It means that this bill would not target them. Rather, it would go after criminals. It would go after AR-15 assault-style firearms. Yes, it would implement a national freeze on handguns, because handguns have been growing by approximately 55,000 new registrations every year and they have concurrently become the number one type of gun used in homicides.
Those are the types of evidence-based, informed policies that are in Bill C-21, and that is why it would help save lives.
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- May/9/23 4:34:57 p.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Mr. Speaker, there is just so much wrong with this presentation. Under the Liberals, violent crime has gone up 32%; gang crime has gone up almost 100%. The minister just spoke about registered firearms, yet the experts who appeared at the justice committee, the police chiefs, said that illegal firearms coming in from the United States are the cause of this problem.
Would the minister acknowledge that his bill, Bill C-5, eliminated mandatory penalties for trafficking in illegal firearms, drive-by shootings and using a firearm in the commission of an offence? While he is talking about increasing sentences for certain crimes, would he also acknowledge that the maximum sentence has never been used for any of these crimes, and it will not be under these changes?
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- May/9/23 4:35:49 p.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Mr. Speaker, I will not predict what a court will do, because each case is taken on its merits. I suppose that is the biggest difference between the Conservatives and the Liberals. When it comes to the judiciary, we have faith in that institution.
My colleague knows that Bill C-5 was a response to the Supreme Court of Canada repeatedly striking down the failed Conservative approach to sentencing. This disproportionately impacted racialized Canadians and indigenous peoples.
Yes, we do need to make sure that we are putting in place the appropriate sentencing for hardened gun traffickers. I believe that by raising maximum sentences, we are sending a clear signal to the courts. This is an expectation that if people terrorize anyone with a gun, they will face stiffer jail sentences. However, we also need to take action at the border. We did that with the Americans. We also need to include prevention. The Conservatives have never supported that, but they should. That is what a comprehensive plan looks like.
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- May/9/23 4:36:43 p.m.
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It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith the question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House.
The question is on the motion.
If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division or wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.
The hon. parliamentary secretary.
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