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Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)

May/9/23 6:10:44 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-311

Madam Speaker, I am not pleased to have to rise today to speak on Bill C-311, another attack on a woman's right to choose, another attack on abortion as health care, another attack on abortion rights as human rights, which is something that women, in particular, led the way to have so that we would not go back to the dark times of what has been mentioned so many times today: back-alley abortions where women died bleeding to death; gruesome. We are talking about violence, and I cannot think of anything more violent than restricting a woman's right to health care, including the right to access a safe abortion. Bill C-311 would amend the Criminal Code to specify that knowingly assaulting a pregnant woman and that causing physical or emotional harm to a pregnant woman are to be considered aggravating circumstances for sentencing purposes. However, we know, as has been indicated over and over in this debate, that these changes are, in fact, unnecessary as judges already have the ability to apply more significant penalties for aggravating circumstances under section 718.2 of the Criminal Code. In fact, no anti-violence organization has asked for this legislation. As somebody who has been on the frontline fighting against gender-based violence for many decades, I find it insulting to conflate an attempt to attack women's reproductive rights with true actions to end the ongoing crisis of gender-based violence. The federal government can and should pursue other ways of addressing gender-based violence, including reversing the plan to cut $150 million to women's shelters in September. If we want to protect women, including women who are pregnant, we need to make sure that they have a safe place to go. Let us not talk about the safety of women when that is not what we are really talking about, when we are attacking a woman's right to make a choice about her bodily autonomy. I call on all members of the House to instead focus their attention on pushing all levels of government to implement the 231 calls for justice from the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls and strengthening the national action plan to end gender-based violence by adding timelines and accountability measures. Why are we not discussing that today? Why are we discussing a bill that would threaten a woman's right to health care, which includes a safe abortion? This is disturbing—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/9/23 6:14:28 p.m.
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The hon. whip for the opposition on a point of order.

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Whip

Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

May/9/23 6:14:33 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we are here to debate a specific bill, and now speaker after speaker, including the present one is talking about irrelevant issues. There is nothing in this bill about health care—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/9/23 6:14:48 p.m.
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The hon. member knows that there is quite a bit of leeway in how members approach bills— Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay: I am asking, Madam Speaker: Do you find this relevant? The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): I have not listened to the past two minutes or so as I was in discussion with a table officer. However, before that, I thought it was relevant to the bill in question. I will pay close attention henceforth. The hon. member for Winnipeg Centre.

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Deputy

Ms. Leah Gazan

May/9/23 6:15:11 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-311

Madam Speaker, anti-choice organizations, on the other hand, are cheering on the introduction of the bill. They see it as a step forward in establishing legal protection for fetuses, which would pave the way for legal restrictions on abortion. If the bill passes, it would be a victory for those who want to limit abortion rights and would not do anything to meaningfully address gender-based violence. I am sorry to hear that the member for Carleton has not advanced in his position on women's rights and is actively supporting this legislation. He has a history of supporting legislation that violates a woman's right to choose. I would add that the member for Carleton also has a history of supporting individuals, including Jordan Peterson, who attack the trans community He also has a history of—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/9/23 6:16:06 p.m.
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I need to interrupt the hon. member. There is a point of order from the hon. member for Yorkton—Melville.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall

May/9/23 6:16:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, she is not referring to the bill at all. She is defaming and abusing—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/9/23 6:16:21 p.m.
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The hon. member for Winnipeg Centre was referring to the bill.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/9/23 6:16:21 p.m.
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That is debate. The hon. member was referring to the bill two minutes ago, and I was listening. She was referring to the bill, and she is using arguments she is free to use to make her points.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall

May/9/23 6:16:21 p.m.
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She was referring to Dr. Jordan Peterson, who has absolutely nothing to—

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall

May/9/23 6:16:21 p.m.
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This has nothing to do with this bill.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/9/23 6:16:21 p.m.
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The hon. members have a certain capacity to use arguments to defend their points, and that is what the hon. member for Winnipeg Centre is doing.

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Mr. Jean-Denis Garon

May/9/23 6:16:57 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am rising on a point of order. I know the topic is sensitive, but ever since the debate started, we have had to endure what we might describe as vocal interference from the Conservatives. I consider it my parliamentary right to be able to listen to the debate without disruption. In my opinion, this crosses a line and intervention may be appropriate.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/9/23 6:17:12 p.m.
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That is a different matter. The hon. member for South Surrey—White Rock is rising on a point of order.

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

May/9/23 6:17:18 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think you would agree with me it is my right as a member of Parliament to raise a point of order, bring it to the Speaker's attention when I think it is appropriate, and I will not be shut down—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/9/23 6:17:29 p.m.
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The hon. member for Mirabel was not referring to rising on points of order. I think the hon. member was referring to comments that were being made while other members were speaking. The hon. member for Winnipeg Centre has the floor.

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Ms. Leah Gazan

May/9/23 6:17:41 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-311

Madam Speaker, the member for Carleton has a history of supporting anti-choice legislation that impacts a woman's right to choose, including, now, his support of Bill C-311. He also has a history of backing up and holding up folks such as Jordan Peterson, who has spoken out aggressively against the trans community and its members' right to bodily autonomy. This is about bodily autonomy and the right to choose. It is very much a part of the debate. The Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada opposes this bill, saying “The Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada opposes this bill and urges MPs to oppose the bill as well...The bill is redundant.” It goes on to say that the anti-choice movement is using it as a vehicle to advance fetal rights, saying, “Several anti-choice groups have been promoting this Bill C-311 as a means to recognize two victims. They are looking for a route to establish fetal personhood in law, and if this bill passes, they would leverage the bill for that purpose”. This is very much an anti-choice bill. This is not coming from me, although there have been points of order raised. I know what I am saying might be troubling, but I want to let people know that the NDP opposes Bill C-311. We are committed to fighting for the reproductive rights of all Canadians. We oppose, and I am proud that we oppose, anything that restricts these rights, and we support expanding access to abortion services, removing barriers and protecting the right of women and gender-diverse people to make decisions about their own bodies. That is what this debate is about tonight. From my perspective, and we have certainly heard from several experts in the field, this bill is the latest attempt in a long line of attempts by anti-choice Conservative MPs to undermine Canadians' reproductive rights. I know not all Conservative MPs are anti-choice, and I urge them to vote against the bill. It is unfortunate the Leader of the Conservative Party is supporting anti-choice legislation. We are opposing the bill, as it does not provide pregnant women with additional protection, but it does provide anti-choice MPs and organizations a new tool to promote the legal restrictions on abortion. Let us look at what is happening south of us. I am worried that we will have, just like what is happening in the States, 10-year-old girls who were victims of sexual assault being forced to carry babies to term. Do we want a country that forces that kind of abuse on children? New Democrats are going to resist, vocally, any sort of attempt to limit abortion rights. We could ensure that a pregnant woman and others who experience gender-based violence are safe. That is not what this bill is about. We could ensure that pregnant women are safe without undermining reproductive rights and the right to bodily autonomy for anybody, including the trans community. We know abortion rights are under attack. This is a real threat, even in this country. We must do more than oppose bad legislation. We already need to improve, for example, in real time, access to this right. There are places in Canada where people cannot access an abortion. We have to ensure that we do not just recognize that human right, but that we ensure all women have access to the right. We know that Conservatives cannot be trusted on this issue. We know that. They have had several attempts to undermine women's and gender-diverse individuals' right to choose. We know that many Conservatives MPs have introduced and supported anti-choice bills that would undermine Canadians' right to access a safe abortion. Quite frankly, the Liberals have talked a good game, but their record is deeply underwhelming. While they pay lip service to defending abortion rights, they still have not removed the charitable status from anti-choice crisis pregnancy centres, and they do not enforce the Canada Health Act when provinces fail to uphold the right to access abortions. They need to take action, not words, to ensure that a woman's right to health care, is available. Abortions are health care. We are going to continue to hold the government to account. I will continue to watch the Conservative leader, the member for Carleton, who is actively supporting a bill that—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/9/23 6:23:06 p.m.
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Resuming debate, the hon. member for South Surrey—White Rock has the floor.

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay (South Surrey—White Rock, CPC)

May/9/23 6:23:16 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-311

Madam Speaker, I am honoured to stand today in support of Bill C-311, the violence against pregnant women act, because I thought that is what we would be debating tonight. However, what I have been listening to is far from that. The speakers have gone far afield in their discussion of a bill that is squarely before them. I want to thank the member for Yorkton—Melville for bringing forward this important legislation. It is my honour to second it at this stage of debate. I will speak to this bill, not some other bill or bills, or a history of bills. We are talking about Bill C-311, which would amend the Criminal Code to specify that knowingly assaulting a pregnant woman and causing physical or emotional harm to a pregnant woman would be considered aggravating circumstances for sentencing purposes. I support this bill because mothers who have faced and are facing violent assaults need to know that they are heard and that the pain and depression caused by harm to their babies are not left unseen by others. I have fought for women's rights all my career as a lawyer, especially during my career as a family lawyer, and now as a politician. This bill is about the rights of pregnant women, no more and no less. I am the mother of four children who I have been fortunate to raise into adulthood, but I was pregnant five times. My last child, a boy named Mackenzie, or little Mack for short, never got the chance to know his family, work, speak, go to school, play with friends or grow up. His waiting family, which was me, his dad, his brother and three sisters, never got to meet him. We lost little Mack halfway through my pregnancy because of the negligence of an interning doctor who wrongly handled an amniocentesis procedure and suffocated him in utero. At the time, his loss sent me into a deep situational depression for months. I was off work for the first time in my adult life, and I grieved his passing desperately. I still do many years later. Because of this tragic event in my own life, I know and understand how the deliberate act of a person who knows that someone is pregnant and does harm to them and their baby impacts a mother and her family. It is well documented that pregnant women in Canada are easy targets for violent assaults, yet the consequences of these offences have not increased. Just this year, the Court of Appeal for Ontario overturned a seven-year sentence for an offender who stabbed the pregnant mother of his unborn child in the neck and left her for dead. The mother lived, but the baby did not. This violent attacker's sentence was upped to 15 years when an appeal judge pointed out that the initial sentence did not address the issue of domestic violence or that the victim was pregnant with his baby. A violent crime against a pregnant woman needs to be treated as the serious crime that it is. Right now, criminal sentences in Canada do not consider harm done to a pregnant woman when an assault is committed. Nelson Mandela said, “Safety and security don't just happen. They are the result of collective consensus and public investment.” Violence against women, especially pregnant women, is not a private family issue. It is a public safety and security issue, and it needs the urgent attention of this House. Among Canadian women who have reported being abused by an intimate partner during pregnancy, 40% said that the abuse began during pregnancy. In recent years, there have been more than 70 cases in which pregnant women have been murdered, and the effect of the death of the unborn child was not a factor at sentencing. The story of Tashina General from Brantford is particularly disheartening. In 2008, a Brantford man strangled Tashina to death. She was his 21-year-old pregnant girlfriend. He then attempted to hide Tashina's body by burying her in a shallow grave. He committed this gruesome and horrific crime against Tashina, as the evidence came out, simply because he did not want to bear the responsibility of being a father, despite Tashina's choice to be a mother. Only eight years later, this murderer was set free. Tashina's grandmother, Norma General, still wonders what her great-grandson would have looked like and what kind of personality he would have had. She never had the opportunity to hold her first great-grandchild because of the despicable actions of a misogynistic killer. It is not only intimate partner violence to which pregnant women are vulnerable. Pregnant women are also the target of unprovoked attacks by strangers. Last year on Vancouver Island, a pregnant woman walking down the street with her four-year-old daughter had a brick thrown at her stomach in a random attack. The fact that the victim was pregnant was not seen as an aggravating factor. I will let that sink in. In another case, a pregnant woman in Surrey was attacked at a bank. An unknown man approached her from behind and violently threw her to the ground. Women who are pregnant are vulnerable, and they should be treated as vulnerable when it comes to sentencing. Offenders will often cite an unplanned pregnancy or the stress caused by having to potentially financially support the baby as excuses for these crimes. The uncaring government has turned its back on women who choose to have a child. Its members are blinded by differences with the member for Yorkton—Melville on other matters, and that is blinding them to this bill. A vote against this bill is a vote against choice and women, and it would be misogynistic. They say that they are for choice, but only if we agree with that choice, and that is no choice at all.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/9/23 6:30:10 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-311

The time provided for the consideration of Private Members' Business has now expired, and the order is dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the Order Paper.

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House Hansard - 193