44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 16, 2023 10:00AM
Madam Speaker, you are absolutely right about interventions and to make no inference to individuals.
The reality is, as the member well knows, there are no firearms that would be taken away as a result of Bill C-21. This has been a repeated question to the Conservatives tonight, and they have not been able to mention one firearm that is impacted.
They talk about what could happen one day. We are dealing with legislation, and we are dealing with facts. There is absolutely nothing to the Conservative allegations around that because those amendments, thanks to the NDP, were withdrawn, both G-4 and G-46.
He talked about criminal gangs in Vancouver. We have seen a tenfold increase in the Lower Mainland. He talked about the use of ghost guns, the untraceable weapons that law enforcement have been unable to combat because they do not have the legislation, the legal tools.
The Conservatives have been stalling by filibustering this bill. If the member is really sincere about combatting criminals, why will the Conservatives not adopt the provisions around ghost guns to combat these gangs and criminals?
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Madam Speaker, if the member, in his power as the junior partner in the coalition, wants to carve all those sections out of this bill and bring it back to the House, we might be able to have a conversation.
What the member does not address in any of his questions is why the junior partner in this coalition is not pushing the government to deal with the 86% of guns that are smuggled across the border. Why does the member not use his influence with the government to get that done?
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Madam Speaker, there have been a great number of things said in the House tonight about Bill C-21 that would have applied at one point or another in the evolution of the bill, but which are no longer true, so I think it is very important to stress that the airsoft gun issue is resolved.
The list of guns and the list of various types of weapons that were introduced midway through the process, and later aborted at clause-by-clause, as well as the work that has been done to resolve other aspects and the fact this bill deals with ghost guns are all things that need to be emphasized at this late hour.
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Madam Speaker, I think the challenge is that the Liberals are going to be able to classify other prohibited weapons as they go. This is from the government that said it would not raise the carbon tax above $65 a tonne, so I am not sure how we can trust what it is going to do with this firearms committee.
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Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure tonight to speak to Bill C-21. Even though I represent an urban riding, I can say there is a lot of interest in that bill. Saskatchewan firearms owners are respectful; they are law-abiding citizens and many feel that the bill is simply an infringement on their rights.
When Bill C-21 came forward last fall, I was kind of hopeful it would include measures that would be tough on crime and crack down on illegal smuggled handguns, which are part of the 32% increase in violent crime since the current government took office eight years ago.
First off, I want to thank the grassroots movement in this country, like hunters, sport shooters, indigenous groups and farmers, who really are concerned about their livelihood. They are concerned about their sport, their culture and, above all, their public safety for pushing back against the Liberal Party's agenda.
Many amendments, as we know, came forward. Many were pushed aside by the government, as Conservatives on the public safety committee listened to the testimony and recognized the many flaws in Bill C-21. A major concern with the legislation, and we have heard it a lot tonight, is that it would target competitive sport shooters in such a way that it could lead to the demise of the sport.
The legislation would effectively mean that those who use lawfully obtained handguns to participate in internationally recognized sport would no longer be able to do so. The bill would outlaw competitive sport shooting, except for individuals who are already training for the Olympics. The amendment that was put forward by our party would have allowed members of the International Practical Shooting Confederation to continue to participate in their sport, but it was voted down.
I want to talk about my province of Saskatchewan, and I want to thank the leadership of the provincial government, because it is well ahead of the federal Liberals. Back in September 2021, the Province of Saskatchewan appointed its own chief firearms officer, proactively getting ahead of the Liberal government. Saskatchewan has several concerns with respect to Bill C-21, and the ability for the new legislation to be effectively implemented while supporting impacts on public safety.
I consulted with Robert Freberg. Many members know Mr. Freberg. He is the chief firearms officer for Saskatchewan, and I think he is nationally recognized as the expert in this field. Many of the initiatives in the legislation before us would rely heavily on both law enforcement and the ability for chief firearms officers across Canada to issue prohibitions, revocations and refusals of licence, and to be the primary resource to investigate public safety concerns related to firearms.
Mr. Freberg has told us that the Province of Saskatchewan has been so successful in this area, since the province has not only designated its own provincial chief firearms officer, but it has also established the provincial firearms office, which is currently supporting law enforcement efforts to deal with the illegal use and possession of firearms. This includes mental health; domestic abuse; criminal activities; and enhancing overall education, which is a big one, around safe storage and proper licensing.
The Firearms Act clearly states that Canada should negotiate a federal contribution agreement with the provincial CFOs, which has not occurred since Saskatchewan and its neighbouring province to the west, Alberta, actually took over CFO positions back in 2021.
The Province of Saskatchewan is currently funding 100% of the work currently being performed not only by Mr. Freberg, who is the chief firearms officer, but also by the entire office. It has also provided significant additional funding for the establishment of a new provincial firearms ballistics lab to assist with law enforcement on firearms involved in criminal investigations. This, I might add, is with no financial support, again, from the federal government.
Currently, it can take two years for results for exhibits that have been submitted by police to the federal ballistics lab for testing. This actually occurred after the RCMP closed several provincial labs, including the one in Saskatchewan, which previously supported those important law enforcement needs and initiatives. How could Bill C-21 be successful if the agencies responsible for the overall implementation and enforcement are not adequately funded and are now being asked to do much more with much less? I would say my province has spent over $9 million and is waiting for even a dime from the federal government to help it out. Let us keep in mind that we started a chief firearms office nearly a year and a half ago, because Saskatchewan did not trust the federal government.
Many of the announcements around the May 2020 order in council handgun ban and Bill C-21 have severely impacted the focus on the Canadian firearms program and its performance in the critical public safety investigations required, as they are now negatively impacting managing the fallout of excessive call volume from licensed firearms owners due to the hastily announced legislation that was put in place with absolutely no consultation or input from them. Many law-abiding firearms owners continue to experience lengthy delays, some actually over a year now, trying to simply renew or acquire a firearms licence. How can they stay in compliance or be properly licensed if they cannot even communicate with the Canadian firearms program due to the program now being fully inundated with call traffic?
The current handgun freeze and subsequent inability for law-abiding firearms owners to acquire or even transfer a handgun has significantly impacted not only public safety but also the financial investment and loss in value that these individuals in my province are now experiencing. If an individual should become deceased or even experience a health or financial issue that creates a situation where they would like to initiate a legal transfer to another licensed individual, today, they simply cannot do that. This results in the individual having to surrender the restricted firearms to the police for destruction, or having to engage the extremely limited scope of services for a very specialized licensed dealer or exporter.
Dealers can purchase, as we know. However, given that there is an extremely limited market for resale, they are unlikely ever to participate. There is no buyback program, as currently stated in the May 2020 OIC. Given that there would be no current provisions to ever grandfather the existing owners, as there previously were under the regulations in 12(6), which allowed for the transfer to still occur between licensed grandfathered individuals, there is a high likelihood that these current firearms could become diverted in some circumstances rather than staying registered and managed as they presently are.
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Madam Speaker, I wonder if the hon. member could comment on the fact that firearms-related incidents in northern Saskatchewan went up by 75% from 2017 to 2021, or the fact that the shooting in The Danforth in Toronto was done with a gun that was stolen in Saskatchewan.
I guess it really comes down to a fundamental question: Who on earth, in this country, other than police or the military, needs a handgun?
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Madam Speaker, most of these, if not all, are illegal firearms in northern Saskatchewan. We know that. A lot of the “tough on crime” that the Liberals have not done over the last eight years is now paying massive dividends in northern Saskatchewan, as the member talked about.
We are in trouble in northern Saskatchewan for a very good reason. It is because they are not tough on crime. We have seen many people, day in, day out, go into court who should be sentenced and are not. They get out and do the same tactics they did a week before, and this is part of the problem we have right now in northern Saskatchewan.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his speech. He does a very effective job as vice-chair at the Canadian heritage committee, and often chairs our meetings. I appreciate his work. However, there are some things that need to be corrected from his speech.
First is the fact that there are no guns being removed as a result of Bill C-21. He knows that. Both the G-4 and G-46 amendments, because of NDP pressure, were withdrawn. That is fact number one.
Fact number two is that the emphasis of Bill C-21 is on ghost guns. Ghost guns have been a scourge of many parts of this country, with a tenfold increase in the lower mainland of British Columbia. This is something that law enforcement needs additional powers to combat. These are criminal gangs and criminals who are using these untraceable firearms. That is the focus of the bill, and that is something that he should be in favour of.
Third, he did mention sport shooters. This morning, I was surprised to see the Conservatives table an amendment to remove an exemption for sport shooters who are in the Olympics or the Paralympics. That is an exemption that we believe in because the NDP did table the amendment.
On the International Practical Shooting Confederation, we believe—
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- May/16/23 11:48:21 p.m.
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We have a point of order.
The hon. member for Edmonton—Wetaskiwin.
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Madam Speaker, the hon. member knows that it is against the rules of the House to mislead the House. The hon. member knows that he was approached by a hard-working, Conservative staff member, who asked him personally to understand that there was an administrative error made—
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- May/16/23 11:48:44 p.m.
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That is debate.
Order. The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby and the hon. member for Edmonton—Wetaskiwin know these are points of debate, and it is not proper to be debating while I have the floor.
I would ask the hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby to finish up.
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Madam Speaker, why did Conservatives table this motion to remove the exemption—
An hon. member: Oh, oh!
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- May/16/23 11:49:30 p.m.
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I would ask the hon. member for Edmonton—Wetaskiwin to not speak while someone else has the floor. If he continues, he can either leave the chamber or be asked to leave.
The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.
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Madam Speaker, the Conservatives have tabled this as Motion No. 12. It removes the exemption for sport shooters, for Olympic and Paralympic competitions. Conservatives have filed this. Why did they file this?
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Madam Speaker, let me talk about ghost guns after three hours in the House. The respected member for Kootenay—Columbia, who is a former RCMP officer of over 30 years, brought it up to the government over two and a half years ago. It did nothing at that time.
Then the member for Kootenay—Columbia asked a very important question: Where is the education in this law? Where is the education? I have to thank the Saskatoon Wildlife Federation for all the great work it does. With this bill, the federal government has done nothing on the education process going forward on Bill C-21. It should be ashamed.
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Madam Speaker, there are a lot of issues that come with this type of debate. I appreciate my colleague talking about the reality in urban Saskatchewan versus rural Saskatchewan. Does he want to elaborate?
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Madam Speaker, believe it or not, even though I am an urban MP, I get a lot of calls. In my province, people want to be outdoors. They want to shoot guns and sport shoot. I have to thank the Wildlife Federation that does a wonderful job in my community.
The one thing I will say is that I am so proud of Bob Freberg and the Province of Saskatchewan. They are still owed $9 million by the federal government because it has not paid for the officer or the office.
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Madam Speaker, it is with a heavy heart that I join this debate. I am going to speak for a bit and then I will take some questions because I have some answers I would like to give to a few of the questions that were asked in the chamber this evening. I hope members will stay and have the courage to ask me the same questions they asked other members.
I am really standing up for the law-abiding firearms owners in Saskatchewan this evening, because despite what the junior coalition partner NDP and the Liberals say, we all know that the two amendments that were brought forward with members kicking and screaming were about, with one, trying to create a backdoor registry and, with the second, a minimal change to the definition, which really did not affect the legislation at all.
When we talked about amendments, several times this evening my colleagues tried to put forward a unanimous motion to change an amendment that had a clerical error. Years ago, this would not have happened. Years ago, under Tom Mulcair or Jack Layton, they would have been honoured to accept that unanimous consent motion and it would have been changed because it was simply a clerical error. Time and time again, the House leader stood and mischaracterized what happened, which is a sore spot for Conservatives because we do like to try to work together in this House. What we have seen tonight was complete disrespect for how this chamber is supposed to work.
I will go back to standing up for law-abiding firearms owners across Saskatchewan. Regina—Lewvan is an urban riding that has sport shooters, hunters, people who go to the range to trap-shoot and the Regina Wildlife Federation, good, salt-of-the-earth people who just want to keep their traditions alive. Earlier on in this debate about law-abiding firearms owners, we learned that it really was not about decreasing crime. It was really about going after something that people do not understand.
I have some quotes by people who are are not traditional Conservatives. One is from Chief Heather Bear from the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations. Chief Heather Bear stated:
When guns are confiscated from sustenance hunters, it impacts them and their families when they have merely been trying to put food on the table. When guns are confiscated it may also impact the whole nation, especially those who hunt for ceremonial purposes, in that sometimes we only need traditional food for ceremonies....
If there are no safety issues and there is no issue of domestic violence or any kind of violence, then taking away a gun impacts our nations and our citizens' ability to assert our inherent, and treaty and constitutional rights. We also view our guns as a tool of our first nations sustenance hunters.
That is not a traditional Conservative supporter. I would also say that I do not think she would be a conspiracy theorist. I think she has some genuine concern about what is going to happen with their traditional way of life and how they will feed their families. I dare any member in this House to stand and say that is fearmongering, as has been said so often tonight about Conservatives who have brought forward concerns from their constituents.
We all represent our constituents and it is being boiled down by some in the NDP who are terrified by this debate right now because they know they are going to lose seats in rural Canada due to being on the wrong side of history on this. We need to remember when Liberals, in the 1990s, brought in the long gun registry. I remember that they were going to drop crime and crime statistics were going to plummet because they were going to take long guns away from our hunters and farmers. This is just rinse and repeat.
We see right now that violent crime has gone up 32% in our country, with the Liberals doing nothing with their hug-a-thug policies. We are seeing gang violence increase by over 90%. Do we think this legislation is going to prevent that?
I have my PAL. I know how long it took to get my possession and acquisition licence. I know that every morning my name goes through CPIC, and the Liberals and NDP are trying to take advantage of people who do not know what the regulations are around this. Every morning my name goes through CPIC, like every other person who has a PAL, to make sure they have not done anything wrong. If they go through, police officers know that people have firearms in their possession because of RPAL and that there could be dangerous situations, which does not happen with law-abiding firearms owners.
Robert Freberg came and talked to the Saskatchewan caucus. Do members know how many crimes in Saskatchewan have been committed with a legally owned firearm? Fewer than a handful, he said. If people in this chamber think voting for the bill is going to drop crime rates in our country, either they are lying to themselves or they do not understand what the bill would actually do.
We know that with the so-called NDP standing up for these amendments, there is going to be a firearms advisory committee. This committee is going to then use it as a back door to bring through more legislation and take guns away from law-abiding hunters and farmers.
I just got off the phone with the Agribition CEO, Kim Hextall. She asked why they would want to take away firearms from people who use them for protecting their livestock and for varmints. These are the people none of these members in this chamber are standing up for, and I think it is something that should be taken very seriously. If they are going to take gun crime seriously and try to get gang members to not have illegal firearms, perhaps they should not have voted in favour of Bill C-5, which lessened the penalties for all these crimes.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to read from a news article: “The final report of the Mass Casualty Commission (MCC) investigating the April 2020 mass shooting in Nova Scotia that left 22 people dead makes several recommendations to meaningfully change Canada's gun laws.” The headline reads, “MCC report calls for stricter gun laws”.
Is there any situation in which the Conservative Party would support stricter gun laws?
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Madam Speaker, there absolutely is.
The Prime Minister said on December 19, 2022, that “there are some guns, yes, that we're going to have to take away from people who were using them to hunt.”
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