44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 17, 2023 02:00PM
- May/17/23 9:00:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the speech from the member opposite, although this is coming from the party that seems to detest American-style politics. All the member did was talk about what is going on in the United States. I do not remember once, not ever, anybody on this side of the House saying that it is a right to own a firearm. Conservatives have always said it is a privilege, and we have always said that privilege comes with responsibilities. We have never said it is a right.
I also listened to this debate and heard talk about misinformation and disinformation. That is a massive piece of it. Conservatives had to sit here and listen to that. We had to listen to what is going on in the United States. What does that have to do with what is going on in Canada? If the member wants to talk about that, she could talk about Chicago. It is a gun-free zone and it has double-digit homicides every single weekend. We can talk about Mexico if we want. It has massive gun control. Who has all the guns? It is the cartels, but that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
When will the member get serious about what is going on in this country, strengthen our border and reduce the number of guns that are smuggled?
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that my Conservative colleague opposite has very clearly stated that gun ownership is not a right in this country, but a privilege.
What we have done in Bill C-21 is increase sentencing for violent crimes that use handguns. What we have done in Bill C-21 is reinforce our borders with additional funding in order to ensure that our security personnel can intercept gun traffickers and we can curb gun smuggling from the United States into Canada.
I would like to know why the Conservatives, if they are serious about tackling gun smuggling, are voting against Bill C-21.
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Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary secretary mentioned the tragic massacre at École Polytechnique, which is in her riding. She mentioned the work of PolyRemembers and that of Nathalie Provost, who was shot that day.
I do not know whether the parliamentary secretary is aware that, with Bill C‑21, her government is breaking the promise that it made to PolyRemembers. PolyRemembers asked the government to ban assault weapons. With the passage of Bill C‑21, 482 models of assault-style weapons will remain on the market in Canada. That includes the WK180‑C, a semi-automatic weapon that works exactly the same way as the AR‑15, which has already been banned.
I do not know whether my colleague is aware that, since 2015, all her government has done is disappoint PolyRemembers.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my Bloc Québécois colleague for the work that she did on the committee responsible for this bill. The committee worked hard so that the House could debate Bill C‑21.
As she is well aware, I work very closely with PolyRemembers. I know that it is important to PolyRemembers that we provide a definition of assault weapons. What we are doing in Bill C‑21 is a first step in that direction. There will be a definition in the bill. We also set up an advisory committee to analyze the 482 models of assault weapons that my colleague referred to.
I would also like to say that our work is not finished. It has only just begun.
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- May/17/23 9:04:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to ask my colleague about other sport shooting disciplines. She may be aware that her Liberal colleague from the riding of Kings—Hants gave a very passionate defence at committee for including organizations like the International Practical Shooting Confederation. Other countries that have handgun bans have allowed members to train for this. Even the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police has asked for law-abiding handgun owners to be able to practise their sport.
Why have the Liberals been so steadfastly against this when other countries have set examples? The members of her own caucus are arguing for it, as is the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police.
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- May/17/23 9:05:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I must admit I have been deeply disappointed in the position the NDP, the supposed progressive party, has taken on gun control in this country.
I understand that my colleague would like to have seen an exception for IPSC, which is a sport shooters association. The reality is that the president of IPSC indicated that he would very much welcome an exception because it would allow his members to essentially purchase handguns despite the handgun freeze in effect in this country, thereby creating a huge loophole in the bill that is before us. I am glad that—
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- May/17/23 9:05:50 p.m.
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Resuming debate, the hon. chief opposition whip.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Beauce.
The Liberals are on a mission to ban hunting rifles in Canada. Tonight, we are debating Bill C-21, legislation that is designed to ban firearms used by law-abiding hunters and farmers. When discussing this bill on TV, the Prime Minister said, “we're going to have to take [guns] away from people who were using them to hunt.”
That is why, at the public safety committee, the Liberals tried to slip in amendments that would have banned several common hunting rifles, including the SKS, the Ruger No. 1, the Mossberg 702 Plinkster tactical 22, the Westley Richards Model 1897 and many slow-to-fire hunting firearms designed to shoot birds or skeet.
After public backlash from rural communities across the country, and in the face of fierce opposition from the Conservatives, the Minister of Public Safety retreated in defeat. However, the Prime Minister is still hunting for a way to take away legal firearms from law-abiding Canadians. Since his plan A failed, he has moved to plan B.
He is now setting up an advisory committee to make further recommendations on gun control, and he has given himself the power to ban firearms by an order in council. Members can be sure that he will appoint activists to the advisory committee who will tell him what he wants to hear. He will then hide behind their advice and unilaterally ban hunting rifles without any further debate or votes in this House of Commons. Conservatives oppose giving the Prime Minister this power; we do not trust him to leave law-abiding firearms owners alone. After all, he already admitted his true agenda, which is to take away their hunting rifles.
The NDP members are putting their faith in the Liberal Prime Minister, as they always do. They will vote in favour of this secretive, undemocratic process, wherein the Prime Minister can once again attack rural Canada. The NDP once championed the rural way of life, but it has become a party that takes its marching orders from special interest groups and, frankly, woke, big city mayors. The NDP has forgotten about the rich hunting tradition in rural communities, a tradition that is as old as the land itself. Traditions have been passed down from generation to generation. Many families rely on wild game to fill their freezers and to feed their families. For them, hunting is a way of life.
When I was young, my family lived on beautiful Vancouver Island. I fondly remember friends and family celebrating their successful hunts. Recently, I travelled back to the island, where I spoke with a man named Frank. He is a small business owner struggling to make ends meet under crippling inflation, which is at a 40-year high. Given the high cost of food, driven up by the carbon tax, Frank cannot afford to buy meat at his local grocery store. Hunting with his legally owned firearm allows him to provide meat for his growing family of five. Frank is a law-abiding, hard-working and proud Canadian whose way of life is under threat from Bill C-21.
Frank is not alone. His story is like the stories of many others on Vancouver Island and in every region of the country. The rural NDP members have completely abandoned people like Frank. The voting record will show that NDP members from rural British Columbia have turned their backs on their own constituents.
This includes the member for Courtenay—Alberni, the member for Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, the member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley, the member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith, the member for South Okanagan—West Kootenay and the member for North Island—Powell River. These NDP members do not have the backs of their constituents when they are thousands of miles away from home in the House of Commons.
In particular, I am disappointed with the whip of the NDP, the member for North Island—Powell River. She had the NDP member for Cowichan—Malahat—Langford removed from the public safety committee in the middle of its consideration of the bill. She silenced him because he raised concerns about the bill. She replaced him with an urban, anti-hunting member, the NDP House leader, for fear that they might upset their big city base.
She should know that the data and evidence are clear in that licensed firearm owners are far less likely to commit a crime than the average citizen. That is why the Liberal-NDP coalition should leave law-abiding firearms owners alone and target the real perpetrators of gun crime.
What I find particularly egregious is that the Liberal-NDP coalition did the opposite by eliminating mandatory prison time for serious gun crimes, including robbery or extortion with a firearm, weapons trafficking, discharging a firearm with intent, using a firearm in commission of a crime and reckless discharge of a firearm. It is letting drive-by shooters and gun runners back into our communities sooner while targeting law-abiding hunters and sport shooters.
It also broke the bail system by legislating a catch-and-release program that has led to a 32% increase in violent crimes. As a result, B.C. cities, including my home of Surrey, are facing an onslaught of violent crime. University Magazine identified Surrey as having the highest crime rate in Canada. The decent, hard-working families who choose to live and work in Surrey just want a safe community to raise their families and live in peace. Under the soft-on-crime Liberal government, they are forced to live in a community where criminals are emboldened. This approach is not working in Surrey on anywhere in British Columbia.
We all remember the tragic murder of Constable Shaelyn Yang; while on duty, she was stabbed to death by a man who had previously been arrested for assault. He was released on condition that he would appear in court, which is something that, surprisingly, he failed to do. A warrant was issued for his rearrest, but when found living in a tent in Burnaby Park, he took the life of Constable Yang by stabbing her to death. Sadly, she is just one of 10 police officers killed in the line of duty this year.
In another case, a tourist was stabbed multiple times in the back while waiting in line at a Tim Hortons in Vancouver. His assailant was the subject of a Canada-wide warrant for failing to follow conditions of his release. In Vancouver, 40 offenders accounted for 6,000 arrests in one year. That is an average of 150 arrests each.
Unfortunately, the breakdown of public safety extends far beyond B.C. We all watched with horror last summer after the mass killing on James Smith Cree Nation happened in Saskatchewan. The perpetrator had previously been charged with over 120 crimes, but that did not prevent him from taking 10 indigenous lives.
Following that senseless tragedy, the Leader of the Opposition stood in this House, pleading for change. He said, “The James Smith Cree Nation was not only the victim of a violent criminal, but also the victim of a broken criminal justice system.” He went on to say:
A system that allows a violent criminal to reoffend over and over again with impunity does not deserve to be called a justice system. Leaving victims vulnerable to repeat attacks by a violent felon is not criminal justice. It is criminal negligence.
As Conservatives, we believe that someone who makes one mistake should be given every opportunity to build a productive life for themselves. However, the justice system cannot allow dangerous, violent repeat offenders to terrorize our streets. I will vote against Bill C-21, because it would do nothing to take illegal guns off our streets.
Canada needs a Conservative government that will target gun smuggling and end easy access to bail for repeat violent offenders. Only Conservatives will bring home common sense to public safety that targets criminals, not law-abiding Canadians. We will be a government that respects and protects law-abiding hunters, farmers and sport shooters. Why will we do this? We will do it because it is their home, my home and our home. We will use common sense to bring it home.
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Mr. Speaker, I am sorry, but I think my Conservative Party colleagues are taking intellectual shortcuts.
They say that Bill C‑21 is the biggest ban on hunting rifles in Canadian history. They know full well that that is not true. They say that once Bill C‑21, which does not affect hunting rifles, is passed, the minister is obviously going to issue an order in council banning hunting rifles. According to the Conservatives, this means that the government is going after hunters. That is not at all what is happening.
I want to know how my colleague can see into the future.
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Mr. Speaker, first of all, I frankly resent the personal remarks of that member. I am a lawyer by background, and honour, ethics and integrity are important to me, as they are to the rest of my Conservative colleagues. I am not misinforming this House, and I am not stating falsehoods.
I am telling the truth about what Bill C-21 would do and what this advisory committee would probably do. One just needs to look at the earlier announcements, which ban such rifles as the Winchester model 100, Winchester 1910, Sauer 303, Ruger Deerfield Carbine and Remington 740. I could go on. Clearly they want to do by order in council what they did not want to do openly in this House.
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Mr. Speaker, that was, frankly speaking, an embarrassing speech.
First of all, the firearms advisory committee is a body that already exists. It is separate and apart from Bill C-21. Furthermore, the hon. colleague knows that the power to reclassify firearms already exists under the Criminal Code.
I am willing to bet that if I challenge that member to name one rifle or shotgun that is going to be prohibited by Bill C-21, she would be unable to do so. I am going to sit down now and give her the opportunity to do just that.
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- May/17/23 9:17:29 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the whole point of a committee that allows the Prime Minister the power to make further regulations, without coming back and debating them through legislation in this House, is what we are talking about.
The Liberals have already indicated the types of firearms that they were targeting before. I just listed several of them. There is no indication that they will not target them again. They have just given themselves an easier pathway to do it, by order in council.
Order in council is done at the cabinet table or in the Prime Minister's Office. There is no need to come back to this House for consultation.
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- May/17/23 9:18:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, during the hon. member's speech, she actually said that the penalties would decrease for gun runners. She referred to them as traffickers or smugglers. However, it was clear in the proposed legislation that the maximum penalty would be extended from 10 years to 14 years.
Could the hon. member clarify that point?
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- May/17/23 9:18:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I love this question, because I am a lawyer, and I used to be the parliamentary secretary for justice. I know the difference between a minimum mandatory sentence and a maximum mandatory sentence. Maximum mandatory sentences are virtually meaningless, other than meaning that justice could not go further.
The whole point here is that the Liberals have taken a series of dangerous, violent crimes, with firearms, and lessened the penalties for them. It is clear. It is on the record. If the member was listening, I listed them in my speech.
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- May/17/23 9:19:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I greatly appreciate the speech that the opposition whip gave, which articulated some of the really important context that highlights some of the debate.
It is clear that the Liberals, in the work they did in committee, wanted to go further. In fact, there were members of the committee who said that. This legislation gives them the authority to go further with a secretive process that would likely, in the Prime Minister's own words, target law-abiding firearms owners.
My question for the opposition whip is this: Is that secretive process the best way to increase public safety, or would it actually be putting the real criminals behind bars?
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- May/17/23 9:20:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, of course the answer to that is no.
Orders in council are done for the convenience of the Prime Minister and his cabinet. They are not done to have a transparent or open process. They are not done to subject what is being done or changed to debate and discussion.
When this bill was originally tabled, there was so much backlash that the Liberals had to pull it all back and find another way to do what they wanted to do. There was opposition from constituents, Canadians right across the country, from coast to coast to coast, and from the Conservatives. The current way is now less transparent than what we had before.
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Mr. Speaker, I will try to measure up to my colleague. It is not easy to speak after the official opposition whip. She gave a wonderful speech and did a great job of illustrating the challenges we face.
Today, I am speaking to Bill C-21, this government's flawed gun bill. Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge the hard work my colleague from Kildonan—St. Paul has done on this file, as well as the work put in by all of my colleagues on the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.
Since the bill was introduced in the House, the Liberal Party has changed direction so often that it is difficult to keep up. The Liberals' inordinate attacks on the Canadian people have not gone unnoticed. The Liberals have shown their true colours to Canadians. Instead of cracking down on illegal guns and gang members, this government has introduced legislation targeting hunters, farmers and indigenous communities.
As usual, the Liberal government is completely out of touch with rural Canada, widening the all-too-real divide in our country. No one believes that going after hunters will reduce violent crime across the country. This is part of the Liberal plan to divide Canadians.
As Conservatives, we support common-sense gun policies that prevent guns from falling into the hands of dangerous criminals. The most important thing we can do is to crack down on smugglers at the borders and prevent illegal weapons from getting into Canada and falling into the hands of criminals and gang members.
I have had the opportunity to talk with many citizens in my riding about this bill. I talked to Mr. Vachon from Saint‑Georges, who served in the army for 14 years and who is very worried about the impact this bill will have on him and his ability to hunt and sport shoot. He is an advocate for the safe use of firearms and understands very well that those who commit crimes with illegal firearms will not be concerned at all about this bill. The only people who are worried about it are law-abiding hunters and sport shooters.
I also talked to Mr. Deschênes from Sainte‑Marie, who is extremely concerned about the impact this bill will have on shooting clubs in the region. They may have to close their doors in the future. He is a federal agent and needs to regularly train at these shooting ranges to keep up his skills and keep himself safe. He emphasized the importance of these shooting ranges for public safety because many police services use them to perfect their skills and maintain their accreditation, and they also educate other Canadians about gun safety.
Finally, Ms. Turcotte from Beauceville contacted my office just last week to express her dissatisfaction with amendments G‑4 and G‑46. These amendments were completely inappropriate and were subsequently withdrawn. However, hunters still worry about what the Liberal government will do next. How far is it prepared to go? Will it amend the same bill once it comes into force, introduce those amendments and shut down debate again?
In my riding, countless farmers also contacted me for fear that they would no longer be able to protect their livestock, which is their livelihood. The problem with this government is that it has a strange way of sending messages. It claims to have discussed this bill with stakeholders, but when the text of the bill and the amendments were published, many groups, such as hunters, indigenous groups and professional sport shooters were taken completely by surprise.
A member of the Alberta Mounted Shooters Association said that they are a very safety-conscious group. She added that before they can become mounted shooters, they must complete training, testing and background checks to obtain their restricted gun licences. They want more Canadians to practice their sport. They want to grow and develop skilled target shooters and equestrians. They also want the ability to continue the legacy for our youth and produce more world champions.
At the rate this bill is going, I do not know if there will be any sport shooters left when this is all over. New athletes will have so many regulatory hurdles to overcome that any shooting discipline outside of the Olympics will be eradicated. Even Canadian Olympians will be forced to spend countless hours obtaining the necessary licences to travel with their sporting equipment.
This lack of comprehensive consultation has not just affected hunters and sport shooters; it has also affected the most important segment of the Canadian population, indigenous communities. As Chief Jessica Lazare of the Mohawk Council of Kahnawake put it, the lack of thorough and comprehensive consultation with indigenous communities is demonstrated by the incoherence and inconsistency of the proposed legislation, the amendments and the lack of recognition of the rights of indigenous peoples.
This is further proof of the complete ignorance shown by this government and the Minister of Public Safety.
Let us talk about how the Prime Minister continues to fail Canadians when it comes to public safety. With bills like C-5, the government is making our country less safe. Bill C-5 removes mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes. How backwards can this government be?
For people who are guilty of armed robbery or firearms trafficking or who recklessly discharge a weapon, it is easier to get away with it thanks to the Prime Minister's soft on crime approach. This government has made things twice as bad with Bill C‑75. The Prime Minister's bail policy has triggered a wave of violent crime in our country.
Our communities feel less safe, and the Liberal government is responsible for making the situation worse. A common-sense Conservative government will ensure that violent reoffenders stay behind bars while awaiting trial, and it will bring back the mandatory sentences for serious violent crimes that were cut by this government.
The bail reform measures that were announced this week are reactive and respond to weeks of news about the dramatic increase in violent crime in this country. Why does the government always have to play catch-up? It is incapable of getting ahead on anything. A Conservative government will ensure Canadians' safety and introduce bills that will truly keep Canadians safe.
Does the government realize that illegal guns are used in 99% of gun crimes? More than 85% of those guns are smuggled in from the United States. Why are they not allocating more resources at the borders to prevent these firearms from entering?
In my riding, there are two border crossings that do not even have CBSA officers. Truckers coming into Canada simply pick up the phone and call the nearest border service officer to open the gate and the shipments come into Canada without any screening. I am sure this may surprise some members of the House, but it shows just how low a priority border security is for the Prime Minister and the Minister of Public Safety.
In conclusion, I think everyone in this House wants to make Canada a safer place to live, but Bill C-21 was never the right way to go about it. This bill was flawed from the start, and the government has completely missed the mark.
I also think the NDP has a lot to do with this failure, as the New Democrats continue to support the government in this process. However, many of the NDP members are from rural ridings. I hope their constituents have been watching them all this time and will remember this failure. Conservatives will always be there to keep Canadians safe and to protect law-abiding gun owners, whether they are hunters, farmers, sport shooters or indigenous people.
We will always protect their right to own and use firearms safely and lawfully. We will ensure that violent criminals and smugglers are prosecuted, instead of our law-abiding neighbours and farmers.
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- May/17/23 9:31:29 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would ask the member the same question that I have asked other members here tonight: Can the member opposite name one shotgun or rifle that is currently used by hunters and farmers in their regular hunting activities that this bill would actually ban?
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- May/17/23 9:31:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, these guns used by hunters were in an initial amendment that was later withdrawn. What guarantee do we have that this government, which is known for breaking its promises, will not bring them back and submit them to the committee established and created by the government and whose members are appointed by the government?
I believe that the answer is obvious.
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Madam Speaker, since the beginning of this debate, the Conservatives have been saying that Bill C-21 will either ban hunting rifles or that it will allow the Prime Minister to ban hunting rifles.
It would be one or the other in the best of all possible worlds. The truth is, it is neither.
I would still like to hear my colleague's thoughts on the second part. If I understand the Conservatives' argument correctly, until Bill C-21 is passed, it is impossible to ban guns by order in council.
I would like him to explain how the government managed to ban guns by order in council before Bill C-21.
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