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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 201

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 29, 2023 11:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 201 - May/29/23
The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:06:09 p.m.
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The hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona.
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Mr. Daniel Blaikie
  • May/29/23 8:06:11 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, in this budget, the government allocated another $50 million on top of the over $300 million it has already allocated to chasing money from the poor who were in the CERB program. How much is the government prepared to spend on chasing people who cannot afford to pay their CERB debt?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:06:34 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, our government believes in compassion, and I think we have demonstrated that in budget after budget. Our government also knows that Canadians want to know that there is fairness and program integrity.
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Mr. Daniel Blaikie
  • May/29/23 8:06:56 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, organizations that are currently working with vulnerable Canadians have said that the CRA is no longer offering the $5-a-month or $10-a-month repayment plans. Is the minister aware of that fact?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:07:07 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would like to talk about the importance of fairness. Fairness is important to vulnerable Canadians as well as to affluent Canadians. Vulnerable Canadians who play by the rules want to know that everyone else is playing by the rules too. That is why we are finding a balance between integrity and compassion.
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Mr. Daniel Blaikie
  • May/29/23 8:07:27 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, how much money is the government spending to reclaim emergency wage subsidy dollars that were taken by companies that did not need it?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:07:35 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the point about the importance of integrity and fairness applies to all Canadians and to all of our programs.
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Mr. Daniel Blaikie
  • May/29/23 8:07:49 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, well, it applies to Canadians but apparently not corporations. I will ask again, how much money is the government spending on reclaiming emergency wage subsidy dollars from companies that posted profits and paid dividends?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:08:01 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, as I said, we absolutely understand the importance of program integrity. It really matters to Canadians. I also want to point out, and let us remember, that COVID was an unprecedented economic emergency. We took unprecedented—
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The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:08:16 p.m.
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The hon. member.
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Mr. Daniel Blaikie
  • May/29/23 8:08:18 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I do not know that Canadians think pretending to get money back from the poor and spending hundreds of millions of dollars to maintain the fiction has actually anything to do with fairness or that it is a prudent financial decision. Again, how much is the government willing to spend to chase money it already knows it cannot get back?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:08:39 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, as I said, it is important for us to be compassionate, and that is one of the priorities of our government, but we also understand that fairness matters to Canadians. For example, those Canadians who received a payment in error and who have paid it back want to know that those same rules apply to other Canadians.
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Mr. Daniel Blaikie
  • May/29/23 8:09:05 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, they might also like to know that it applies to multi-billion-dollar corporations that received that money, have not paid it back and have not been asked to pay it back. How much is the government prepared to spend in going after companies that got wage subsidy money and paid dividends to their shareholders?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:09:20 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, we believe that integrity of all of our programs is important, and that is what we are pursuing. We are pursuing it in a compassionate, reasonable way. I want to remind people: eyes on the prize. The important thing is we needed to take emergency action during COVID.
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Mr. Daniel Blaikie
  • May/29/23 8:09:42 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, earlier in her exchange with the Conservative leader, the minister said that platform documents represent a sacred trust. Seven and a half years ago, the government promised to reform the employment insurance system, and it has not done it. Is that breaking a sacred trust with Canadians?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:10:00 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, our government absolutely understands the importance of the EI system. That is why, during COVID, we contributed an additional $27 billion to the EI account to support EI, so EI could support Canadians in this—
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The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:10:21 p.m.
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The hon. member.
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Mr. Daniel Blaikie
  • May/29/23 8:10:22 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it was not a real contribution. The government is already trying to take it back. It has assigned $25 billion of the CERB debt to the EI account, which means that premium dollars are already going to go up just to pay back that debt and are not available for program improvements. How is it that the government is planning to enhance employment insurance when it is already eating up the money that would be available to do that through a $25-billion debt assignment?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:10:49 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I am afraid that that is simply an inaccurate explanation of what has happened with the EI account. EI supported Canadians in a significant way during COVID and in the aftermath, and that is why the government transferred $27 billion to the EI account to support EI. Whenever the country goes through an economic downturn, whether it was 2008 or the COVID recession, the EI account needs to move back into balance—
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The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:11:21 p.m.
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The hon. member, if you have a quickie.
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