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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 201

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 29, 2023 11:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 201 - May/29/23
Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:33:25 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, what will be the national debt at the end of 2023?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:33:30 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, our debt-to-GDP ratio is coming down. It is at 43.5% and it is going to continue to come—
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The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:33:41 p.m.
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The hon. member for Northumberland—Peterborough South.
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Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:33:45 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, what was the debt-to-GDP ratio in 2021-22?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:33:55 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the debt-to-GDP ratio went up strongly during COVID, and that was because we had to spend significantly to support Canadians. It was the right thing to do, and we are seeing the results with a very strong job market.
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Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:34:13 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, during COVID, from 2021 to 2022, and then the next year, from 2022 to 2023, the debt-to-GDP ratio went up. Is that not correct?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:34:24 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the debt-to-GDP ratio went up as a result of our extraordinary COVID spending. In budget 2023, we showed a debt-to-GDP ratio in 2022-23 of 42.4%—
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The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:34:41 p.m.
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The hon. member.
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Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:34:43 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it went up from 42% to 43%, which is odd because, in this very House, the Minister of Finance said, “On this point, let me be very clear. We are absolutely determined that our debt-to-GDP ratio must continue to decline and our deficits must continue to be reduced. The pandemic debt we incurred to keep Canadians safe must be paid down. This is our fiscal anchor. This is a line we will not cross.” Why did they cross the line?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:35:10 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would like to quote someone who is not partisan and who has been respected by all members of the House as a fiscal expert, Kevin Page, who is the former parliamentary budget officer. This is what he had to say about our budget. He said that the 2023 budget has a “credible fiscal strategy”, and that “the government's fiscal anchor of a declining ratio is maintained”. This is a declining ratio over the framework, and, I want to point out, tripling—
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The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:35:39 p.m.
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The hon. member.
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Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:35:42 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, speaking of parliamentary budget officers, our current Parliamentary Budget Officer said he was troubled by the lack of transparency, specifically with respect to $12 billion in unallocated funds. Will the Minister of Finance agree to provide an allocation of that $12 billion?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:35:59 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, our current Parliamentary Budget Officer also, in testimony before the finance committee, described the conversation he had with Moody's, a credit rating agency. The current PBO said that Canada's deficit should make us, and I am quoting him, “quite happy because by European standards that's very low.”
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Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:36:21 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, will she provide an allocation of the $12 billion unallocated in the budget?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:36:26 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, our government has been assiduous in answering all questions that are presented to us by the PBO. We have—
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The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:36:35 p.m.
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The hon. member.
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Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:36:37 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, what has been the growth rate per capita, the GDP growth rate? What was been the per capita GDP debt growth rate in the last 10 years?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:36:47 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I am glad to finally have a question about people, jobs and growth. Canada's GDP grew by 3.4% last year, the strongest level in the G7. In the first quarter of this year, our GDP grew by 2.5%, also the strongest in the G7.
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Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:37:06 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the key number there is per capita. The growth rate is 0.8% over the last 10 years. That is the worst since the Great Depression. We have record-high deficits. We have record-high debt. We have a slowing economy and record-low economic growth. This is very disappointing.
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:37:25 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, that is simply not true. Canada's deficit is forecast, this year, to be 1.4%. That is low not only by world standards; it is low also by Canadian historical standards. Our debt service charges, even in this time of high interest rates, are lower than they were for most of the Harper era.
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