SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 218 - Jun/21/23

Mr. Peter Fragiskatos (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue, Lib.)

Jun/21/23 7:13:51 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to listen to the member speak. I know he has a good command of these issues, and he is respected for his work on the finance committee in particular. I do agree very strongly with his take on how to combat inflation, when he says that the approach should be to focus on those things that people cannot do without, such as dental care and child care. I am glad to see that the government, with the support of the NDP, has moved in that direction. We see the benefit to thousands of Canadians who are being supported along the way in both of those areas. I do want more clarity on something. I do not ask this in a combative way; I am simply interested in the NDP's position. The member raised the issue of corporate income tax. He seemed to suggest that the NDP position would be to raise those rates back up to close to 30%. What is the position of the NDP on that specific matter? I hear some, not many, New Democrats who have a very pro-business view; sometimes they present themselves in that way, and one would expect a championing of a lower rate of tax. However, I did not hear that from this member.

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Mr. Daniel Blaikie

Jun/21/23 7:15:07 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member will not hear that, when it comes to the corporate tax rate. We ran on increasing the corporate tax rate, not to 30% but to 19%; I think that was the latest platform commitment. We have been very clear about that. This is still well below the OECD average, so it is hardly a high-water mark when it comes to fair taxation of large corporations. Our position is that Canada has incredible competitive advantage beyond a low tax rate. Canada does not have to scrape the bottom of the barrel on its corporate tax rate in order to attract investment. We have a lot of natural resources that cannot be found elsewhere. We have an incredible labour market with a lot of skill. We provide benefits, such as health care, that oftentimes, in other jurisdictions, employers would have to pay premiums in order to be able to provide. Canada is an attractive place to invest, and we do not have to have a bottom-of-the-barrel corporate tax rate in order to attract investment.

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Mr. Philip Lawrence (Northumberland—Peterborough South, CPC)

Jun/21/23 7:16:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, just to set the record straight, on average, 9% of OECD countries' revenue comes from corporate taxation. I have this from the OECD report. In Canada, it is 12%. Tax revenue that comes from corporate taxation is 30% more in Canada. Therefore, to say that we are somehow below the average in the amount of taxation we take from corporations is simply not true. I heard the member criticizing both Liberals and Conservatives. He went on about some of the things that the Liberals are doing wrong. We agree that the Liberals have a deficit and debt that is way too high. We have interest rates and inflation. We might disagree on the cause of that, but we are seeing negative consequences. We have food bank usage doubling. Will the member vote non-confidence in the government?

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Mr. Daniel Blaikie

Jun/21/23 7:17:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will not do that today, but we have been very clear that the day may come. We heard a Liberal member talking before about inflation and the hardship that Canadians are experiencing because of that. Any time they talk about this, they start listing the things that the NDP made them do, including the GST rebate, dental care, action on child care and pharmacare. The discriminating factor is that as long as we can continue to push the Liberal government into doing things to benefit Canadians in this difficult time, things that I firmly believe they would not be doing with a majority, we will continue to support the ongoing work of this Parliament as opposed to another one. The day will come when this Parliament ends. What we are doing now is setting up Canadians to get some meaningful relief from inflation in a way that companies cannot simply take back without price increases. I think we are paving the way for a strong majority New Democratic government in Canada.

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Ms. Monique Pauzé (Repentigny, BQ)

Jun/21/23 7:18:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I joined the debate 15 or 20 minutes ago. I heard part of my colleague's speech. I would like to take him back to what we call the “fiscal imbalance” and what I could also call “federal paternalism”. This refers to the fact that the federal government uses the money it has and its own spending to impose its own choices on Quebec. What does my colleague think about federal paternalism? I imagine that he must support it.

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Mr. Daniel Blaikie

Jun/21/23 7:18:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think that there is always a danger of seeing something like that when we work in teams. I also think that it is possible to have a genuine partnership between the provinces and the federal government. It is a matter of how the programs are implemented and how involved the provinces are in the decisions surrounding how the program will be implemented in their jurisdictions. When it comes to child care, for example, there is a good model. The provinces have had a lot of say in how it will be implemented in their own jurisdiction, including Quebec, which has always been a leader in child care. There are models for good collaboration. We want to look at these models to ensure that we do not become the victims of dangerous federal government paternalism.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP)

Jun/21/23 7:20:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, one thing that has been brought to mind by this motion is the focus on this idea of returning to balanced budgets. In times past, during both Conservative and Liberal majority governments, they tried to make themselves look better by balancing the budget. To do this, not only did they cut services, but they also cut housing strategies and a lot of things Canadians depend upon. They also raided the employment insurance fund, which was paid for by the deferred wages of workers. What is the member's perspective on that? I would really love to hear.

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Mr. Daniel Blaikie

Jun/21/23 7:21:04 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, yes, that is a fact, and it has been done by Liberal and Conservative governments. In fact, it was a key election commitment of the sitting Prime Minister that he would not do this anymore. I think the running tally between Liberal and Conservative governments by 2015 of what had been raided out of the employment insurance account was about $63 billion or so. This was money that did not belong to government but belonged to workers in order to pay wages while they are out of work. Perhaps somebody knows that number better. What I find quite disconcerting is that the current government is at it with the same old tricks, except that this time, instead of just gratuitously grabbing that money out of the EI account, it has said that it is going to take $25 billion of pandemic CERB debt and apply it to the EI account. Therefore, it is saying that it is not really taking money out of the account but just debiting the account. One does not have to be a democratic socialist to be upset about this. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business thinks it is a bad idea, and it is upset about it too. Both employers and employees are rightly upset about the fact that the federal government has once again decided to go grab out of the EI piggy bank, which is not what it is. It is also why we should have legislation to protect that account, but we do not, and it is why we have been very consistent in calling on the government to—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Jun/21/23 7:22:34 p.m.
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Questions and comments, the hon. member for Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola.

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Mr. Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, CPC)

Jun/21/23 7:22:41 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I worked with the member on the Standing Committee on Finance quite well. I would simply like to ask about his views on building more housing. He seems to be completely against real estate investment trusts or other private entities, but ultimately, if we are going to see more purpose-built rentals to give people a roof over their heads, it is going to take an incredible amount of money. Some of these larger corporations are able to do that. They are doing it in places like Westbank First Nation. Quite honestly, municipal gatekeepers are preventing private, public or not-for-profit entities from building more affordable housing—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Jun/21/23 7:23:33 p.m.
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I will give the hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona a few seconds to answer.

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Mr. Daniel Blaikie

Jun/21/23 7:23:36 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is an important opportunity to correct the record. We are not against private developers creating new housing, but that is not what is going to fix the housing crisis. They have been doing that for decades, and it is not helping. We have been on a track to destruction for a long time. What we think is a real problem is when a big corporate landlord buys a building that used to provide affordable rents, renovates the premises, kicks out all the tenants who needed those affordable rents, jacks up the rents and then invites in other people with more ability to pay. They are not creating new units. This leaves the other people destitute and without a place to live. We will not solve the housing crisis by kicking the poor out of existing affordable units and then allowing those big corporate landlords to make mad profit off new tenants. We need a different plan now.

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Mr. Joël Godin (Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, CPC)

Jun/21/23 7:24:29 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank my colleague who spoke before me, the hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona. I do not share his political opinions and values, but I must point out the effort he made to speak French. I am very pleased to hear more French in the House of Commons. I tip my hat to him. I will be sharing my time with my colleague from Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek. Just over three months ago, on March 28, the Liberal government tabled an irresponsible budget that increases debt and inflation. A few weeks ago, I rose in the House to give a speech on Bill C‑47, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 28, 2023. I began my speech on this bill on June 6 by criticizing the government, which, in my opinion, is choosing to throw money at everyone and waste money. It is making decisions in its own self-interest to hold on to power, using taxpayer dollars to buy a little bit of support from the NDP. The NDP will probably never have as much power in the future as it has in this Parliament—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Jun/21/23 7:25:58 p.m.
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The hon. member's telephone is vibrating and causing a disturbance. The hon. member has the floor.

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Mr. Joël Godin

Jun/21/23 7:26:08 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I was saying that the current government is a minority government and that, in my opinion, the NDP will probably never again have the power it has right now in this 44th Parliament. It is rather odd and a bit disappointing to us, Canadians, who work hard to save our money and make the best use of it. This government is reaffirming its commitment to reducing the federal debt and thinks that it will do that by wasting our money. I am asking this question again because here we are near the end of the session before the House adjourns for the summer. That is likely not news. I think that Canadians noticed that it was possibly our last day. I want to take this opportunity to wish a very good summer to the 337 other parliamentarians who worked hard for many hours. I think Canadians should know how many hours we all spend on serving them. I wish my colleagues a very good summer. I hope they take care of themselves and their family and that they come back in September in full form. I was saying that it is unfortunate to see that nothing has changed on the Liberal side. Canadians are still stretched to the limit with inflation. They are drowning. What is really unfortunate is that it is getting worse because of this government's policy. Six months ago, the Deputy Prime Minister was saying that we should not run deficits or that we should minimize them because they would have a direct impact on inflation. That was six months ago when she tabled the November economic statement. Then she tabled the budget in March. When I look at this massive budget, unfortunately I do not see an approach or a target date for balancing the budget. That is rather unfortunate. We are caught in a downward spiral. The problem is that the cost of living is going up. Companies need more revenue. Employees need more income. The government is increasing taxes, which means that there is no way out, no escape. The housing situation is a tragedy. I have before me an article that was updated in today's Journal de Montréal. In Quebec, rent prices have risen by 13.7% in just one year. I am not talking about food or heating or consumer goods. I am talking about something that every Canadian cannot do without, namely housing. Worse still, the increase in some cities is as high as 44%. That is huge. There was another article posted online whose headline read, “I'm prepared to sleep in the living room: this mom of two teens has 10 days left to find a place to live”. It is tragic. It is no joke. We need to give ourselves the means to be rigorous and to get our public finances in order. The members across the aisle are telling us that everything is fine, that the outlook is good, that they have received a good report card from the international community. Unfortunately, it all depends on how one looks at report cards. I could go on and on about housing statistics, but I will go back to my original text. Businesses are no longer able to make good deals. Everything costs more. There is a labour shortage. We need to increase wages. At the end of the day, there is only one payer and that is the Canadian taxpayer. It is important to be able to strike the right balance. There is no sign of that from this government, however. As my economist colleague from the Bloc Québécois said, this government has no vision. It is reactive. Foreign interference is one example of the government being reactive. That went on for quite a while. Because of the situation, the special rapporteur resigned. We do not know whether he resigned willingly or was forced to. We told the government that an independent public inquiry was needed. They played with words about the process, and they might wait until the last minute, when they have no other choice, before they reach that conclusion. We are wasting time. As my grandfather said, time is money. I was talking about businesses. It is very important to give them the tools they need, which brings me to another topic, the carbon tax. The government has been in power for eight years. It brought in a first tax and took certain measures. Looking at the results after eight years, we see that there have been no reductions in greenhouse gas emissions. I am told that there was a drop at one point, but that was during the pandemic. The pandemic certainly did reduce consumption, but it reduced a lot of other things too. When we look at the projections, we can see that we are going to hit a wall. The first carbon tax did not work. Now we will wave a magic wand. We will solve the greenhouse gas problem by introducing a second carbon tax. If the first tax did not work, then the second likely will not either. No one needs to take a university class to understand that. Instead of taking care of the environment, this government is taking money out of taxpayers' pockets and making them even poorer. However, I would like to remind the government that Canadians cannot take any more. They have been bled dry. They are no longer able to pay their bills. The fact that 1.5 million Canadians have to use food banks is very serious, yet the government is saying that we do not have to worry, that everything is fine and the situation is under control. I have some data from the OECD. We are being told that Canada is doing well when it comes to the real GDP growth projections for 2023-24 and that we are among the leaders. I do not know about that. I did a search earlier while I was waiting for my turn to speak. In terms of the real GDP growth projection for 2023-24, the average for all countries is 2.7%. The projection for Canada is 1.4%, but the government is saying that things are going well and that everything is under control. We are on the right path, the results are good and we need to trust the government. For 2024, the real GDP growth projection for all countries is 2.9%. That is an average. The projection for Canada is not 7% or 5.1%. It is 1.4%. On that note, I want to wish everyone a good summer. I will be pleased to answer my colleagues' questions.

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Mr. Darrell Samson (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence, Lib.)

Jun/21/23 7:34:54 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. As always, his speech was energetic and to the point. I appreciate his speeches. However, I would like to mention the one thing I find problematic. He said that we are wasting money. The difference between the Conservative Party and our party is that we are investing in Canadians. We are investing a lot of money to help them. Since 2015, we have created 1.2 million jobs. Since COVID‑19, we have created 900,000 jobs. That is huge. What did the Conservatives do? I would like to know where they are going to make cuts. Before the hon. member was elected, the Conservatives closed nine veterans offices and cut 1,000 positions at Veterans Affairs Canada. Are there any other places where the member plans to make cuts?

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Mr. Joël Godin

Jun/21/23 7:35:51 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to begin by saluting my colleague, whom I sincerely appreciate. We have the privilege of working together on issues related to the international Francophonie. I had the opportunity to work with him on Bill C‑13. It is a good thing that he was the Liberal representative for the study on Bill C‑13, because without him, we would have had even less to show for all our efforts. I would like to acknowledge him and thank him for the work that he did, although he could have done more. Now, as for the situation in 2015, all I can say to my colleague from Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook is that we had a time horizon to balance the budget. We left the books in great shape, whereas this government has run up a deficit larger than the deficits of all prime ministers combined since Trudeau senior.

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Mr. Luc Thériault (Montcalm, BQ)

Jun/21/23 7:36:51 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in 2022, environmental disasters caused by climate change cost $275 billion. The five biggest oil companies made $220 billion in profits in 2022. Oil companies received $20 billion in funding from the government. I rounded these figures. As my colleague claims, we know that the government spends unwisely. Does he believe that the $20 billion the government spent on an industry that made $220 billion in profits that year was a bad investment? He seems to be concerned about climate change and the environment, so does he not think that this money could have been better spent on the energy transition?

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Mr. Joël Godin

Jun/21/23 7:37:54 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to salute my colleague from Montcalm. That is definitely a concern for me. As the member for Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, I am concerned about two things, namely official languages and the environment. His question contains the answer because, when it comes to the energy transition, we need to take a gradual approach and have a vision. We must not be reactionary. That is what the Liberal government is doing, by always acting at the last minute and improvising. Yes, we must commit to the energy transition, but we need to do it intelligently. We do not need to get too drastic, we simply need to improve the situation. We need to set a target and create a plan to meet that target. The Liberal carbon tax plan fails to meet any targets. All it does is fill the government's coffers and leave Canadians poorer.

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Mr. Gord Johns (Courtenay—Alberni, NDP)

Jun/21/23 7:38:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have a lot of respect for my colleague. I hope he has a great summer ahead of him. This motion is misguided. Cutting help to people is not the solution. In fact, we have seen corporate taxes go from 28% to 15% under the Liberals and the Conservatives. What has happened? Real estate trusts, banks, and oil and gas companies are raking in record profits. We also keep seeing increases in bank fees and oil and gas prices. When are the Conservatives actually going to have the courage to stand up against corporate welfare and make sure corporations pay their far share so that people get the help they need?

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