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Context: House Hansard - 220 - Sep/19/23

Ms. Kristina Michaud (Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, BQ)

Sep/19/23 7:24:32 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would like to ask the same question that one of my Bloc colleagues asked earlier. In fact, it was the member who just spoke who asked the question, but no one was able to give him an answer. I would therefore like to know what he thinks about the fact that none of Canada's allies have taken a stand on this. I find that to be a very interesting and important question given the context and the rather serious allegations. I would imagine that such allegations are not made on a mere suspicion. There must be reasons behind it. Why have the rest of the international community or Canada's direct allies not spoken out? What does my colleague think about that?

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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron

Sep/19/23 7:25:20 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will be brief. Obviously, I have not been in touch with the foreign capitals that are allied with Canada to see how they feel about the statement the Prime Minister made yesterday. However, one thing is certain. As my colleague from Trois-Rivières said, the arbitrary detention of the two Michaels was a proven, indisputable fact. In this case, although the allegation may be based on intelligence information, we are still talking about an allegation. As long as that allegation has not been proven, it is difficult for the foreign capitals to take a stand, even if the situation is extremely worrisome for all of the world's democracies.

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Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP)

Sep/19/23 7:26:16 p.m.
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Madam Chair, let me begin by saying that I will be sharing my time with the eloquent member for Edmonton Strathcona. I am somewhat saddened to take part in this debate today. As our leader, the member for Burnaby South, aptly said yesterday, we offer our condolences to the family of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. The member for Burnaby South mentioned his conversations with Mr. Nijjar's son. This situation concerns a Canadian citizen who was killed on Canadian soil, probably at the instigation of a foreign government, according ot the allegations. I think that all members of the House are united and aware that the Canadian public should never accept such an outrage. The fact that a foreign government decided to kill a Canadian on Canadian soil is something no Canadian government, or the Parliament of Canada, should ever accept. This was the reason for our concerns starting last June, when Mr. Nijjar was killed just a few kilometres from my home in Greater Vancouver. Suspicions about interference by the Indian government had already surfaced. A few months later, the allegations seem increasingly credible. As we have heard many say, an exhaustive investigation is imperative to uncover all the facts. That is why the NDP pushed so hard on this in the spring. We moved a motion in the House that was adopted by every member of the recognized parties and the independent members, except for the members of the Liberal Party. The motion called for a public inquiry into foreign interference, which included China, Russia, India, Iran and other states. The motion was adopted on May 31, as members will recall, with a crushing majority. We continued to apply pressure and we concluded an agreement with the recognized parties such that the inquiry is set to start now. Justice Hogue, who is highly respected, will start her work in the coming days. Obviously, India's interference needs to be examined just as much as that of China, Russia and Iran. It is important for Canada to have a strong response. In my riding, in my community, there are gurdwaras that do incredible work: Shri Guru Ravidass Sabha, which is celebrating its 41st anniversary this very weekend; the Khalsa Diwan Society; the Gurdwara Shri Hargobind Sahib Sikh Society; and Guru Nanak's Free Kitchen. All of these organizations are doing incredibly important work in our community. These Canadians who contribute, to such an enormous extent, to the life of our community and our region should not have to fear that something they say may be taken and interfered with by a foreign entity and a government like the Modi government. It is vitally important that Canada take action to ensure that this does not happen again. That includes, as my colleagues have said, offering RCMP protection. It includes reviewing the status of all Indian diplomats in this country. We have expelled one. There are dozens of diplomats. We need to review their status. I know my colleague from Edmonton Strathcona will speak more in depth on that. We pushed and have succeeded in having the inclusion of India in the public inquiry into foreign interference. Finally, the RSS, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, a notorious extreme right organization that has been involved in violence not only in India but also in North America and in Europe, needs to be banned in Canada. These are the responses of the member for Burnaby South and the NDP caucus to the horrendous allegations we have all heard this week.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

Sep/19/23 7:31:48 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for his speech, which, as usual, was full of common sense and sensitivity. According to him, what prompted the government to actively wait to call an independent inquiry when these revelations had already been piling up for some time?

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Mr. Peter Julian

Sep/19/23 7:32:15 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I always appreciate my colleague's comments. I can think of no explanation. The evidence has been out there for months. That is why the NDP moved a motion calling on the special rapporteur, David Johnston, to resign because he did not have the confidence of the House. The motion also called on the government to immediately launch a public inquiry into foreign interference. As the member knows, the vast majority of parliamentarians from all parties, except the Liberal Party, voted in favour of the motion, and the government did listen to reason. The important thing is that the public inquiry has been set up, and the work will begin in the coming days. This is extremely important to reassuring all Canadians that there will be no possibility of foreign interference in the next election.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Sep/19/23 7:33:29 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, this is an incredibly serious issue we are discussing tonight in the House of Commons. My colleague has brought forward some very compelling arguments and some very compelling facts. One of the things I find interesting is that the official opposition is not participating in the debate today. I have to ask why that is the case. I wonder whether it is because Stephen Harper in fact called Modi a great leader and a good friend. I am wondering whether the member could talk about why he thinks the official opposition is not in fact participating adequately in this debate.

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Mr. Peter Julian

Sep/19/23 7:34:07 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the member for Edmonton Strathcona has hit a very important point. Over 100 members of Parliament from the Conservative Party are here in the House of Commons normally. That would mean the normal rotation for questions would be every third question. They have risen only once since this debate started over an hour ago. They only made one comment, and that was a speaking place they could not give up. I am questioning, and I think Canadians should question, why the official opposition is absent from asking those questions and raising these concerns. There is no doubt the Modi government has been cited numerous times for human rights violations, concerns raised by human rights organizations. There is no doubt these concerns and these allegations are serious. One would think it would be more than the NDP, the Bloc and the Liberals speaking on these issues. I do not understand why the official opposition is absent tonight.

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Mr. Parm Bains (Steveston—Richmond East, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 7:35:23 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, much like the member opposite for New Westminster—Burnaby, I have numerous religious institutions in my riding. My friend and colleague from Brampton East spoke about the Highway to Heaven, which he had an opportunity to visit with me. It is a five-kilometre stretch with over 20 different religious institutions located right beside one another and living in harmony. Many people are troubled by what they are hearing and the news we have learned recently. I want to speak about some findings we heard about from multiple witnesses during a recent committee study on foreign interference, where witnesses revealed that under the Harper government, a number of MOUs were entered into directly with the RCMP, allowing 25 China policing agents to repatriate criminals from Canada. Does the member think this practice set a precedent to allow foreign policing or intimidation of diaspora communities on our Canadian soil?

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Mr. Peter Julian

Sep/19/23 7:36:52 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, my colleague has raised a number of different issues, but I want to say this quite simply. Like the “Highway to Heaven”, the region of Richmond where all faiths are together, it is a hallmark of Canadian society that all faiths work together, that there are interfaith conferences and that we respect each other's religions. This profound, despicable act that took place in June, the killing of Mr. Nijjar, is something that cannot be tolerated by any Canadian, accepted by any Canadian, and we must all give voice to our unity at this time.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Sep/19/23 7:37:37 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, as this is the first time I am speaking in the House of Commons since this session started, I want to take a moment to say that it is always a great honour to stand up and represent the smart, caring and kind people of Edmonton Strathcona. I also want to take a moment to express my deepest sympathy to the family of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. It is incredible to have to have a debate like this in the House today. It is beyond the pale that we have to stand in the House of Commons and talk about the fact that a Canadian citizen was murdered on Canadian soil by a foreign government, and there is credible evidence to the fact that this has occurred. It breaks my heart. Not only did this horrific crime happen, but the reason it happened is to sow fear in the hearts of every member of the Sikh community. This hurt our Muslim brothers and sisters. This hurt our community of diaspora across this country. I met with folks today and have met with folks time and time again who have told me about how afraid they are. They have told me about how angry they are about how little has been done to protect them in this country. They came to this country to be able to be safe and raise their families. One woman I spoke to today told me that she would have second thoughts about going to a political rally right now because she would be worried about her safety in Canada. The fact is that this is what we are dealing with right now, and I do not think we can let go. It is important to recognize that the same thing happened when we were talking in this place about Chinese interference. The diaspora community at that time said “We have been telling you for decades that this is a problem.” Again, we are hearing this from our diaspora communities, and we need to listen to them. We need to hear their experience and their voices. We need to make sure that they feel safe in their communities. It does not matter if we are Sikh, Jewish, Muslim or Christian: We must be able to practise our faith in this country without fear. We must be able to live in our community without fear. However, we know that right now, for so many Canadians from coast to coast to coast, that is not the case. I have raised this issue in the House, and the New Democratic Party has raised this issue in the House many times. I have raised this in committee. The fact is that the Modi government is committing human rights abuses in India. The role we have to play in terms of protecting Canadians is an important role that has to be addressed. We have to find ways to protect Canadians better. We have to make sure that the RCMP is protecting people. We have to make sure that the RSS has been banned from Canada. There are many things we can do, but let us not forget that Canada, as a democracy, as a country that believes in the international rule of law, has an ethical and moral obligation to talk about human rights when they are being abused around the world. It is not enough that we talk about it in Canada; we have to talk about what that looks like around the world. We have to be able to name that the Modi government has attacked people within the country of India, and that women, members of the LGBTQ2+ community, Dalits, Sikhs and Muslims have all been targeted by that government. In a country like Canada, with a feminist foreign policy and a strong belief in multilateralism and the international rule of law, if we do not stand up, if we do not say that this is not all right, if we do not call out that government for this behaviour, if we do not call out Modi for the attacks he is making on vulnerable people in India, it hurts us. It hurts who we are a country. Going forward, we need to do everything we can to make sure that what happened does not happen again in Canada. We need to hold those responsible to account. We need to find justice for those who have been impacted by Indian interference in our country.

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Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal (Surrey—Newton, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 7:42:44 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I appreciate the member's passionate speech; she is known for her passion toward human rights. If we talk about India, even today we are getting news from Manipur that Christian women are being gang-raped in public. Holy Bibles are being burnt. When this is happening there, would the member think that we still need to have free trade talks when human rights are at risk?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Sep/19/23 7:43:27 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it has been a belief of mine for a very long time that Canada has moved too far away from our core values when it comes to our role in the world. We cannot put trade in front of human rights. Trade cannot be the priority instead of human rights. We are looking at the Indo-Pacific strategy, which is a strategy that the current government has brought forward. Making sure we are not engaging to the same level with China because of the human rights abuses that we know China is committing against the Uyghur people is very important. However, to then say that the human rights abuses by the Modi government that we are hearing about day in and day out do not deserve the same condemnation and do not deserve our standing up and and calling out that government for these abuses is wrong. If Canadians believe in human rights, we believe in human rights when they are in Canada, we believe in them when they are in India and we believe in them when they are in China. We believe in human rights anywhere in the world.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

Sep/19/23 7:44:40 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for her speech. She is always passionate. I am a member of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, where I had the opportunity to hear from members of the Chinese diaspora. They came to tell us that they are Canadians and that they are scared. That is what we heard over and over. What does my colleague think the government should do to protect diasporas whose members are, in fact, Canadian citizens?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Sep/19/23 7:45:13 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, that is a very important question. I am a member of the Canada-China committee as well, and at that committee we have also heard members of the diaspora telling us time and time again that they are afraid, that they need more action by the government and that they need more steps taken to protect them. This is not something that is new. In fact, one of the things that I mentioned in my speech is that they have been actually telling government representatives about this for 30 years. Therefore, a couple of things need to happen. When we look into the foreign interference study, we need to make sure that we are looking at China, Russia, Iran and India, because those are the four countries that we have been told have the biggest influence on our democracy or carry out the biggest interference in our democracy. That is one step that we can take. We need to have a registry so that we can know who these players are. We need to understand. Most importantly, we need to listen to the diaspora when they tell us what is happening in their communities. When they tell us that they feel unsafe and when they tell us that things are happening that are wrong and are an attack on our democracy and our sovereignty, we need to listen, and I do not think we have done that very well.

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Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP)

Sep/19/23 7:46:37 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I certainly appreciate the depth that the members bring, both for Edmonton Strathcona and Edmonton Griesbach. They have spoken numerous times through the course of this debate so far this evening. We know about the mosques and gurdwaras across Alberta in Lethbridge, Edmonton, Calgary, Red Deer, Fort McMurray and throughout Alberta. This is an important issue. We have had two members speaking up repeatedly during the debate, but there has not been a single Conservative MP from Alberta who has spoken even one word in this debate this evening. To my colleague from Edmonton Strathcona, why are Alberta Conservatives completely silent in this important debate?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Sep/19/23 7:47:20 p.m.
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Honestly, Mr. Chair, I wish I could answer that question. The people of Edmonton, the people of Calgary, the people of Alberta deserve to have their representatives engage in this debate, and that is not happening. I expect that it has to do with the fact that, as I mentioned earlier, Stephen Harper has said that Modi is a great leader. He is a good friend of Stephen Harper, and he was the prime minister who was in power when the current leader of the official opposition was part of his cabinet. The leader of the official opposition has said publicly that we should not be critical of India. I am sorry, but when we hear what is happening in India, there is no other option but to criticize those attacks on human rights by the Modi government.

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Ms. Sonia Sidhu (Brampton South, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 7:48:14 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I am rising today on behalf of the residents of Brampton South on an important issue. I will be splitting my time with the President of the Treasury Board. It is a fundamental right that every person, regardless of their background, should have the right to safety and security. When these rights are threatened, we must all speak up. On June 18, Hardeep Singh Nijjar, a Canadian citizen, was murdered by two masked men outside a Sikh gurdwara in Surrey, British Columbia. I wish to join my colleagues across the House in offering our thoughts to the family and loved ones of the victim. Homicide investigators said the incident was targeted. They are releasing descriptions of the suspects and are pleading for information. What was even more concerning was to learn that our national security agencies have been actively pursuing credible allegations of a potential link between foreign state agents and the alleged criminals. This is a matter that strikes at the very heart of our sovereignty and our values as a country. Today I want to share my thoughts in this important take-note debate, which is supported unanimously. This alleged involvement of a foreign government in the killing of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil is an unacceptable violation of our sovereignty. This is a serious allegation that is contrary to the fundamental rules that free, open and democratic countries conduct themselves with. Canada is a rule-of-law country, and it is our responsibility to uphold these principles and the principles of international law. As the Minister of Foreign Affairs has said, this government has been guided by three principles since these allegations came to light: number one, that we will seek the truth; number two, that we will protect Canadians at all times; and number three, that we will protect Canada's sovereignty. This is what Canadians expect of us. We must recognize that foreign interference poses one of the greatest threats to Canada's sovereignty and national security. Any form of interference not only puts the integrity of Canada's democracy at risk but also undermines our country’s ability to safeguard institutions and our sovereignty. This government has always been clear that we will never tolerate any form of foreign interference and we will always protect our democracy. That is why we have taken strong action as a government to protect our democracy and our electoral system from foreign interference by pursuing a foreign influence transparency registry, conducting a review of our national security oversight processes and investing in our national security institutions. It is part of our comprehensive approach at ensuring that the integrity of our democratic processes remains robust and resilient. That is why we must ensure that this killing is thoroughly investigated. I am a proud Bramptonian, and our city has always been a place where people from diverse backgrounds come together, work hard and contribute to our shared prosperity. It is these residents, like those across the country, who have the right to feel safe and secure within their community. I want to assure all residents in Brampton and in communities across the country that their safety and security remain our top priority. No matter one's background, culture, race, religion or affiliation, acts of violence or foreign interference against any community need to be investigated, and they are investigated. As the Prime Minister has said, the intention here is not to provoke or escalate. We should remain calm and grounded in our democratic principles and values as we follow the evidence. I urge all of us to stand united in protecting values important to Canadians.

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Mr. Daniel Blaikie (Elmwood—Transcona, NDP)

Sep/19/23 7:53:07 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, yesterday when I heard the Prime Minister's remarks in the House, my thoughts first went to people back home in Winnipeg. I think of folks I see in the community, folks I see when I visit Guru Nanak Darbar and folks at the Khalsa Diwan Gurdwara. I wondered how that news would be received back home in the community. I have had the opportunity to reach out, talk to some folks back home and hear about the concern people have. Tonight, we have heard a number of ways that concern takes shape. People are concerned, for instance, about going to political demonstrations. People are wondering about visits home and what may happen when they go back to see family, depending on their own political views. There is something that we are grateful for in Canada. It is something that we treasure and fight for, to have people be able to take the political positions they take without fear of violence and death. I am very proud of the work that the NDP has done to get a public inquiry into foreign interference under way. Can the member reflect on how that public inquiry may help bring more truth to light for Canadians and lay out a path that helps allay some of their fears?

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Ms. Sonia Sidhu

Sep/19/23 7:54:32 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, yes, I said that in my speech. I am from Brampton, and Bramptonians are concerned, like other Canadians are. That is why the Prime Minister made the statement. Let us remain calm and steadfast in our commitment to our democratic principles. We have full trust in our law enforcement agencies and intelligence agencies, and they are working hard on that. In the meantime, we all stand together. That is what all Canadians expect us to do and that is what we are ready to do.

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Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin (Rivière-du-Nord, BQ)

Sep/19/23 7:55:25 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, from the beginning of this debate, we in the Bloc and the other parties have deplored the events that have taken place. My colleague opposite is from the region where the crime in question took place. I would like to hear her thoughts on our concerns. While we sympathize with everyone affected, and despite our desire to learn more, does my colleague have any idea why the Prime Minister waited until Monday to make the statement? Also, is she aware of any discussions the Prime Minister may be holding with leaders of other countries to find out why we did not receive the support of other countries in this matter initiated by the Prime Minister yesterday?

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