SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 220 - Sep/19/23

Ms. Bonita Zarrillo (Port Moody—Coquitlam, NDP)

Sep/19/23 8:44:01 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I thank the member for his words. We have shared many conversations as we have gone back and forth to the province of British Columbia. I feel those heartfelt words today. I know the member expressed that the community has come forward with concerns; it is scared and worried. I know there was some mention of keeping in contact. I just want to ask the member this: Will the government do more to protect and safeguard Canadians' human rights here in Canada?

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Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal

Sep/19/23 8:44:41 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, when it comes to the safety and security of Canadians, as I mentioned in my speech, the Prime Minister personally assured me yesterday and has assured the House that we will do everything to make sure that every Canadian, irrespective of their background, feels safe. The government will take every step, moving forward, to protect their safety and security.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

Sep/19/23 8:45:28 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I often listen to my colleague opposite, and he always speaks from the heart. I would like to ask him for a heartfelt answer. As a member of the community involved, and knowing that diasporas are affected, what does he think should be done to better protect and reassure communities and make them feel safer?

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Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal

Sep/19/23 8:45:56 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the member is concerned about how we can all work together. Personally, I would love to see that. As members of Parliament, in 338 constituencies, we should be able to reach out to the Sikh diaspora and other diasporas that feel intimidated or at risk from foreign interference. We have to go to them and bring that voice back to the minister and the government about what can be done. It can only be done collectively, as a team, not just by one party.

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Ms. Ruby Sahota (Brampton North, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 8:46:50 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I want to thank my colleague from Surrey—Newton for his heartfelt speech. It definitely struck a chord with me. I know that the member has shown great leadership in his community and in his riding, since this incident occurred there. The particular part in his speech that struck a chord was about discrediting the community. I know that the Minister of Emergency Preparedness talked about this today in an earlier statement as well, how the community is often discredited when it speaks and is asked about its political allegiances to this country or another. Could the member shed some more light on that?

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Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal

Sep/19/23 8:47:34 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I just want to thank the hon. member and her family, who have been involved in Sikh diaspora issues for many years. It is very important that we stand up for human rights, not only in Canada but also around the globe. Any person who tries to raise their voice, whether it is a minister in this cabinet, the leader of the NDP or myself previously, can have consequences for raising those issues. The consequence for me was that I was refused a visa to travel to India. This is how the Government of India intimidates people and our Parliament, let alone the public. We all have to come together, whether as Conservative, Liberal, Bloc, Green or independent members, to condemn that so-called democracy and stand for the rights of Canadians.

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Ms. Kristina Michaud (Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, BQ)

Sep/19/23 8:48:50 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would like to start by saying that I will be sharing my time with my hon. colleague from Rivière-du-Nord. I too would like to offer my deepest condolences to the family and friends of Hardeep Singh Nijjar and to the entire Canadian Sikh community, which is quite large. I believe my colleagues have already made it clear that our hearts and thoughts are with them. What happened last June is deeply disturbing. When I think of the loved ones and family members who did not get this information until months later, that is even more distressing, as it forces them to experience that grief and pain all over again. Our thoughts are with them. I appreciate my colleagues' tone this evening. This is a rather non-partisan debate and a subject that should be non-partisan. Our role, as parliamentarians, is to reassure Quebeckers, Canadians, the Canadian Sikh community and everyone. The government may have failed to do that. I do not necessarily want to dole out criticism right away. Obviously, we applauded the Prime Minister's transparency in the statement he made yesterday. That was appreciated, but it raised concerns among the Canadian Sikh community, particularly among those who claim to have been victims of intimidation by the Indian government for many years, people who feel even less safe today. What message is the government sending those people to reassure them? Perhaps I did not really hear it. It is important to say that this incident is quite simply a form of foreign interference. During the last parliamentary session, we talked a lot about all forms of foreign interference. Even some of our colleagues here in the House were being intimidated. However, the fact that a foreign state was allegedly involved in the murder of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil is even more worrisome and raises a lot of questions. I think that it is good that we are having this debate this evening, but, unfortunately, we are not going to get answers to the questions being raised. We are talking about some pretty serious accusations. Earlier, I heard a minister say that it was inappropriate to make accusations while an investigation is under way, so I was not quite sure what the government's position was. Such serious allegations must not be based on mere suspicions. The evidence must support them. It feels as though only some of the information has been shared with us. Canadians have the right to know the information. We completely understand that an investigation is under way, but as I said, it does raise some questions. We are running out of time, but, essentially, I would like to come back to the all-important questions that my colleagues raised earlier, especially about the fact that we have not yet seen any of Canada's allies or other states in the international community speak to these serious allegations. We were told that the Prime Minister may have informed certain states before even informing the House and Canadians. We have to wonder why. Is it because some states do not necessarily agree, or are they afraid of this confrontation or of a strained diplomatic relationship with India? We are obviously headed toward a very tense diplomatic relationship now, if that is not already the case. It must be said that Canada is standing up to the great state of India and there have been some hiccups in the past, particularly when Canada refused to extradite Canadians of Indian origin. We are told that the government knew about foreign interference by India for several months, even years. We are talking about foreign interference and ways to prevent it. How are we talking about this only now when the government may have been aware? This raises several questions.

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Ms. Ruby Sahota (Brampton North, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 8:54:18 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I can understand that there is a lot of concern and confusion right now, and a lot of questions are being raised, but I also want to point out the fact that a take-note debate is for us to raise our concerns in this House, any questions we may have and the things we want to see happen in the future. What I am looking forward to seeing is the public inquiry that will be taking place, which will be led by Justice Hogue. I am happy to say that the scope of that inquiry has been expanded thanks to our government and the support from the NDP. We know the Conservatives were fixed on just setting down the issue of China. I want to know how the member feels about having a broader scope to make sure that all Canadians are protected and that our democratic institutions are safe from harm from the many countries out there that seek to attack Canada.

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Ms. Kristina Michaud

Sep/19/23 8:55:24 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, obviously, when it comes to an issue as important as foreign interference, we need to address it seriously. We have been calling for this much-discussed independent inquiry for quite some time. It took a long time for the government to embark on this and get involved. The Bloc Québécois has been asking for this to happen for a long time. At the time, we were talking a lot about foreign interference by China. Today, given what we know, it is undeniable that we need to broaden our scope when we talk about foreign interference. If Ms. Hogue addresses the issue of India, it will be very interesting for us to have the information about this particular foreign interference. We are open to the judge proposing solutions and things the government can do to protect Canada from any form of foreign interference.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Sep/19/23 8:56:34 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the reason we are here today is that Mr. Hardeep Singh Nijjar was murdered. We have now heard that CSIS knew there were threats against his life for some time. I wonder what next step we need to take as parliamentarians. What does the government need to do to make sure that this same incident and horrific tragedy does not happen to other members of the Sikh community and other members of diaspora communities in this country? What are those steps? Do we need to involve the RCMP? Do we need to make sure that there is a foreign registry? From the member's perspective, could she speak about the steps that would protect the Canadians who I know are feeling extraordinarily vulnerable right now?

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Ms. Kristina Michaud

Sep/19/23 8:57:34 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, that is an excellent question. I do not necessarily know the answer, but I think the first step is simply to talk about it. I greatly enjoyed listening to my colleague's thoughts just now, when she asked what we are here for if not to speak out against things happening in certain countries, like injustice against religious minorities, various other minorities and vulnerable people, for example. I consider it our duty as parliamentarians to speak out against these things and then discuss them. Then we can come up with solutions together, but we need to talk more about what is going on here, at home. God knows injustice exists here like anywhere else. This is part of our role in a world of international relations among nations. These conversations may not be easy, but we certainly need to have them.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

Sep/19/23 8:58:41 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague from Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia for her speeches, which are always insightful and sensitive. I would like to ask her the following question. After seeing all the hesitation and avoidance that the government was careful to display all spring, does she believe that the government will really do anything about this situation, apart from the inquiry that is already in progress? These facts are weighing heavily on our minds this week.

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Ms. Kristina Michaud

Sep/19/23 8:59:17 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I always act in good faith. I give people the benefit of the doubt even though a person tends to lose confidence after repeated failures. However, I also trust in law enforcement and the intelligence agencies. I know that they are able to do the necessary work. I have therefore decided to act in good faith in this case, but obviously the government should send a strong message about its response to foreign interference, regardless of what form it takes, particularly in this case.

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Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin (Rivière-du-Nord, BQ)

Sep/19/23 9:00:02 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it will come as no surprise when I say that I, too, offer my deepest condolences to the family of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. They have been in mourning since last spring, and we are reigniting that grief with our debates in the House this week. They have my deepest sympathy. I do not want to turn an emotional debate into a partisan one, but I feel it must be said: Canada is in a bit of a mess. I am looking at what is happening right now. On Monday, the Prime Minister announced something that he said he had known for a few weeks. When we asked why he did not mention it before, we were told that the investigation is ongoing so it cannot be discussed. It is almost as if he told us that there is a fire, but he will not tell us where. That does not strike me as particularly nice, and I am not sure that it is helpful. That said, as my colleague from Trois-Rivières mentioned earlier, it is clear that other governments are in no hurry to support the Prime Minister in his statement and his demands. What does that mean? Is it because the information was not reliable? If so, the Prime Minister's statement yesterday was premature. If it was indeed premature, he may have caused more harm by making the statement too soon than he would have caused by waiting, even though he might have been criticized for waiting too long. I have never governed a state, and I may never do so, unless Quebec chooses independence, and even then I doubt I will be in charge. Still, when governing a country, one should make sure one knows what one is talking about before stirring up a hornet's nest. Is that what happened here? I do not know, but I am astounded that more detailed information is not available. Is there a connection between the potentially unclear information the Prime Minister got, the weeks of waiting before he made his statement and other governments' silence? We do not know. I think that the first thing we should do is offer support to the diaspora of all these communities living in Canada. As I said at the beginning of my speech, when we look at what is happening, we are in a bit of a mess. There is foreign interference and we have to name a commissioner to look into it. Justice Hogue is going to do excellent work, I am sure of it, but we have a long way to go. We are not there yet. In the meantime, Chinese communities in Vancouver and Toronto seem to be struggling with clandestine Chinese police stations. The government does not seem to have reacted to this situation other than to condemn it. Nothing was done to stop it. Now there is the murder of Mr. Nijjar last spring which is alleged to be tied to the Indian government. The government is reacting several months later and does not want to tell us what is happening. They are talking about another inquiry that we know nothing about and over which we have no control. How do we reassure the Indian diaspora here in Canada? How do we reassure the Chinese diaspora here in Canada? How do we reassure all the other cultural communities living here? I get the impression that the government has quit. When we ask questions, they do not want to provide answers. Here we are halfway through the government's mandate. Two years have gone by; we have two left, unless everything blows up before the end of this four-year cycle. If we look at the other options, what are they? Where is the official opposition that should be here vigorously condemning the situation and maybe sharing some pain and suffering, putting forward its ideas and its point of view? It is not here. Between the “we do not know, so we cannot talk about it” silence and “we are not there, and we do not want to talk about it” silence, Quebec is in an uncomfortable position within the Canadian federation. I would like to reiterate my deepest condolences to Mr. Nijjar's family. I hope we can find a way to provide reassurance and support to all these communities, a way that is more than just lip service, motions of support and new national days of this, that or the other, a way to really be there when people need us.

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Mr. Randeep Sarai (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 9:05:02 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would have liked to have asked His Majesty's opposition, the Conservative Party members, a question, but unfortunately nobody is speaking today, so I will reiterate what the member for Rivière-du-Nord was just saying. A lot of Bloc members were given a lot of time and a lot of Conservatives were not. Yesterday, the Leader of the Opposition supported the Prime Minister's statement and reiterated a similar statement. This take-note debate was also agreed upon unanimously. Did Conservatives give any information on why they would not be speaking today? Did former prime minister Harper call and say “Conservatives shut up. Go home. It's time to not speak. You cannot speak about India, but you must speak about China”? If I recall prior to the House rising in June, it was all about foreign interference, but now with another country coming up it is dead silence. I see canaries on the other side who are not chirping today. Could the member make some comments on that?

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The Chair

Sep/19/23 9:06:05 p.m.
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I would just remind members not to call anyone names and also be careful about underlining whether someone is here or not here. The hon. member for Rivière-du-Nord.

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Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin

Sep/19/23 9:06:23 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I hope that what I am about to say will not surprise my esteemed colleague, for whom I have a great deal of respect. No, Mr. Harper did not call me. I understand his questions. I have the same questions. As I said earlier, this raises a number of questions. Who governs this country? I tell my constituents that if they want reassurance, they have to make sure they have Bloc Québécois members in Ottawa. Without us, no one can say that everything is fine.

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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

Sep/19/23 9:07:11 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I have a question for my colleague and friend from Rivière-du-Nord. The matter is clear. We now understand that the victim of this terrible murder, Mr. Nijjar, had been warned by police and by CSIS that he was being threatened and was not safe. I am going to say this in English. It is late. I am very troubled that our security forces and the RCMP were unable to keep Mr. Nijjar safe. As to this aspect, I wonder if my friend from Rivière-du-Nord has any thoughts or comments. It strikes me as a failure of our security services, and I wonder if he feels the same.

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Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin

Sep/19/23 9:08:18 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I thank my Green Party colleague, who always does excellent work and who is remarkably sensitive and diplomatic. I understand her questions. I am asking myself the same things. Why were authorities unable to keep Mr. Nijjar safe? If I understood correctly, he was given information at one point, but that does not seem like much in terms of ensuring his safety. Over the past few years, incidents have occurred on the Hill that have led us to question what we need to do to keep parliamentarians safe. People are also wondering how to keep cultural communities across Canada safe. I think that some serious work needs to be done. I have been here for eight years, and we have been talking about the problems with the justice system for eight years. We talked about it again recently. The government has been unable to appoint judges, so trials get dropped because the judges who are there do not have time to conduct them. We are not keeping the public safe. As I said before, unfortunately, I think things are looking pretty grim in Canada.

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Ms. Anju Dhillon (Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 9:09:44 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, my colleague always fights for justice and human rights. We work together on the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. I was deeply interested in his speech. He mentioned that members of the diaspora are truly worried about what is happening. These people often have to flee violence in their country of origin. What more does he think we can do to help members of the diaspora feel safer?

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