SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 220 - Sep/19/23

Sep/19/23 9:23:06 p.m.
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The hon. member, being deputy whip, should know that we cannot say whether a member is in the chamber or not in the chamber. The hon. member for Brampton North can maybe back that up and continue.

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Ms. Ruby Sahota

Sep/19/23 9:23:21 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, you are right, but it does sadden me to hear the silence in this chamber from Conservative voices tonight and the walking back of their leader's statement this morning. This past year, we have been talking a lot about foreign interference, the safety of Canadians and the integrity of our institutions. It is unfortunate that we do not have a partner in the Conservative Party when it comes to making sure that all Canadians are safe and that we are looking into the actions of all foreign governments. Since coming into office, our government has taken robust action to safeguard our democracy and institutions against foreign interference by investing in the RCMP to better protect Canadians from harassment and intimidation, increasing its investigative capacity and more proactively engaging with communities at risk of being targeted. We are creating a foreign agents registry, and through Public Safety Canada we are also establishing a national counter-foreign interference office to coordinate our efforts. Members can rest assured that where there is evidence of state-backed harassment or intimidation, CSIS and the RCMP apply the full measures of their mandates to investigate these threats. I will also reiterate that if a member of the public suspects criminal foreign interference activities that do not pose an immediate threat to life, they should report them to the RCMP or CSIS through phone and online reporting channels, including the national security information network web portal. The Government of Canada is working diligently every day to keep Canadians safe using the full extent of our national security and intelligence agencies. Finally, I know that many Canadians, especially those of Indo-Canadian descent, are feeling deeply concerned over the revelations that were brought to light yesterday. I have received many calls from people in my riding of Brampton North, and I have been saddened to hear from so many that they are not surprised, as they have long suspected and feared the reach of the Indian government outside of its borders. This is a sad reality, but our government has made it clear that we will not tolerate it, and our top priority will continue to be the safety of Canadians and that all steps be taken by law enforcement to hold the perpetrators to account. This news should not in any way be seen as an attack against one community or an endorsement of another. We must all work together and call for justice. We call on the Indian government to co-operate with the investigation so that we can have further transparency and so that justice can be served.

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Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal (Surrey—Newton, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 9:26:24 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, because the hon. member is a deputy whip, I want her to explain why, if every party had the same number of spots to speak today on this debate, some parties are not speaking. Is it their will or that of others?

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Ms. Ruby Sahota

Sep/19/23 9:26:53 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, this is an interesting question. I think I am maybe at liberty to speak to it. As far as I was aware, all members originally were participating in the House. Perhaps there has been a sudden change of heart. I do not know why that is. There were a few other things I wanted to say, especially to Canadians who are watching today. I want to remind them they are a peace-loving people and I want to remind them to stay calm and steadfast in our commitment to diversity, religious freedom, democracy and the rule of law. That is so important as we have this conversation and as events continue to unfold in the coming weeks and months.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP)

Sep/19/23 9:27:48 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I know a lot of us, and I mentioned this before, have probably been reaching out to those in our community who are greatly impacted by this, members of the Sikh community. I was having a conversation tonight, and one of the community members asked me, “What will it take for us to be considered as first-class citizens in this country?” It really just broke my heart, and I did not know what to say to him. I said it is about solidarity. It is about that non-partisan coming together and speaking out against what we know is wrong. As a member of the government, could she speak to my constituents as well on how we are all working together, for the most part, to do just that and to make their lives safer and better, as much as we can?

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Ms. Ruby Sahota

Sep/19/23 9:28:45 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it is something that, being born and raised here in Canada myself, I have struggled with. I know many around me have, and there are many in our caucus who have shared these types of sentiments. It is unfortunate, and it saddens me greatly to hear that even today there are members of our Canadian society who feel they are looked upon as less than. I want to say to them that they are Canadian and that this government will always stand for their rights and their freedoms in this country, and their right to be treated as an equal Canadian, as all others.

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Hon. Bardish Chagger (Waterloo, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 9:29:32 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, leading into the summer, the member and I both sat on the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. I chaired it, and the member participated in it, and she participated for a lot more hours than we had planned, because the official opposition wanted to keep meeting and having meetings on foreign election interference. It was a really important topic. In the riding of Waterloo, where I am really proud to serve my constituents, for the most part there is a lot of confidence in the independent judicial system. They know that politicians, elected officials, have roles to play, but so do our security agencies, the judicial process and police organizations. The list goes on. I would like to hear from the member as to what is taking place right now. What is the importance of the Prime Minister's speaking yesterday, and who are the right authorities to ensure the situation is dealt with in a way that anyone who needs to be held to account is held to account and that justice is served for the loss of this individual?

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Ms. Ruby Sahota

Sep/19/23 9:30:41 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the member for Waterloo is definitely an excellent Chair of the procedure and House affairs committee. She has led that committee through many challenges we as members face and that Canadians look to us to overcome. Within that committee, we talked quite a lot about this issue. We had witnesses appear before committee who told us there are many actors involved in foreign interference in Canada and that those include countries like Iran, China, Russia and others. They stated “and others” many times, and I pressed those witnesses to explain which other countries those were. In our deliberations, we constantly came back to China being the only concern that particularly the Conservative Party had, but now it goes to show we must be concerned about all foreign state actors in order to protect all Canadians and to protect our institutions to the greatest extent possible.

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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

Sep/19/23 9:32:03 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it is an honour to rise in this place virtually to join the debate. I want to start by thanking members for the opportunity to have this speech but also to say that I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Edmonton Griesbach. Canadians from coast to coast to coast are grappling with something deeply shocking. It was only yesterday that the Prime Minister stood in this place. I was, as I think all of us were, completely astonished with what he said and the implications of what he said for rule of law and for the notion, which we have been grappling within this place since the spring, of foreign interference, initially in our electoral process but now also the alleged foreign interference by governments in the most deeply alarming and troubling violation of sovereignty and of decency and morality. We really do lack for words, which is rare in this place. However, I do want to be mindful that the Prime Minister chose his words carefully and so will I. We do not yet have facts that say that the state of India was involved directly in the killing of a Canadian. The Prime Minister said, “Canadian security agencies have been actively pursuing credible allegations of a potential link between agents of the Government of India and the killing of a Canadian citizen, Hardeep Singh Nijjar.” I want to stay with those words and try to keep my remarks within the bounds of what the Prime Minister has told us we know and we can talk about, and not assume that we have all the facts because we do not. However, I do want to say how deeply we wish to share our condolences and sympathies with the family of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. It is clear now his son has been talking with the media. Not only was his father warned that his life might be at risk, but a recent media story says he met regularly with—

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The Assistant Deputy Chair

Sep/19/23 9:34:20 p.m.
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I apologize to the hon. member. We lost sound, but we can hear the member now.

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Ms. Elizabeth May

Sep/19/23 9:34:49 p.m.
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Madam Chair, in forming my thoughts, I find this a very difficult topic because we have had allegations of foreign interference and now nothing could be more disturbing, troubling and unacceptable than the murder of a Canadian on Canadian soil. However, we have obligation as parliamentarians to stay calm and to allow the investigation to take place. We must, and I think we all are united in this, insist on justice being done and that the perpetrators be found. I have questions at this point, as we stay calm and seek the facts. What on earth is going on with our security agencies that they were unable to keep Mr. Nijjar safe on Canadian soil? They had warnings. They knew. That is a question that I have in my mind, and I hope that we can get to the bottom of that as well. We need to know for a fact whether the Indian government was involved in killing a Canadian. We need to know, and we do not know that yet. I am reminded of the Air India inquiry. The Air India inquiry, of course, looked into the 1985 bombing, which is the single largest terrorist attack ever in Canada. It killed 329 people. However, Mr. Justice Major's report, and I remember this with great clarity, told us that we could have averted that bombing if only CSIS and the RCMP had communicated with each other to avert the attack. Now we know that in June Mr. Hardeep Singh Nijjar was murdered and our security forces had advance warning, but they did not prevent his killing. I want to ask some of those same questions. Were they talking to each other? What steps were taken? What steps were not taken? I am also quite shocked by the news that has come out through the CBC from comments made by the Minister of Emergency Preparedness that the Prime Minister chose to tell us this yesterday because otherwise the information was going to be in the media. Therefore, once again, we are drawn back to not a suggestion but the reality that in our security agencies we have people who think it is okay to leak information to the media. I go back to the report of the Right Hon. David Johnston, former special rapporteur. We know how that went, but Mr. Johnston made it very clear that we have to find out who leaks information from our security agencies because it brings Canadian security information and our security forces into disrepute with our Five Eyes partners. Security agencies need to understand—

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The Assistant Deputy Chair

Sep/19/23 9:37:36 p.m.
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I apologize, but we do have to go to questions and comments. The hon. member for Port Moody—Coquitlam.

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Ms. Bonita Zarrillo (Port Moody—Coquitlam, NDP)

Sep/19/23 9:37:50 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I have listened to the member's questions tonight, specifically about some concerns around the intelligence that comes from our public safety department. I wonder if she could expand a little. Does she have any thoughts about what is going on there?

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Ms. Elizabeth May

Sep/19/23 9:38:16 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the question is, what is our role as members of Parliament? That is one thing I put that lens on in trying to figure out what I was going to say this evening. We can always comment on what we know about Prime Minister Modi and his anti-human-rights record and so on. However, what do we really know, and what, as parliamentarians, should we have a responsibility to oversee? I think we need to pay a lot more attention to what is going in CSIS and the RCMP. We have not focused on the RCMP much in the House, and it may seem unrelated for some members. However, the mass casualty report points to an agency that has deep rot and real problems. We can look at CSIS, and I do not understand how we could allow the people in CSIS to call themselves whistle-blowers when they violate national security legislation, apparently with impunity. Apparently someone has done it again. We need to look at that.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach, NDP)

Sep/19/23 9:39:30 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I too want to join the chorus of my colleagues in the House today in sending my condolences on behalf of the communities of Edmonton Griesbach, as well as many communities in Alberta, to the family of Mr. Nijjar, who was ruthlessly murdered outside of a B.C. temple. This is an egregious attack on safety, security and the feelings of dignity that Canadians expect when they come to Canada, when they become Canadian. Turtle Island, this place, my ancestors, the indigenous people of this land, by way of treaty, have made commitments to share this place, to have a peaceful place and to have a place we can all call home. The troubling news delivered by the Prime Minister just yesterday, that a fellow Canadian, a member of our community, a member of our country, could be so ruthlessly gunned down and to have alleged connections confirmed by our intelligence agencies to the Indian government is truly heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking not just for Canadians who value our systems, our safety and our institutions but it is heartbreaking for the world that we have come to a place where human lives can be so easily taken because of political dissent, because of an opinion that someone might hold. I want to be able to put my words into some context for those who may feel blindsided, who may feel as though this has come, figuratively, out of nowhere. My friends, this is not a new instance for many of the diaspora community members who know India. In the last eight years alone, India has gone from a vibrant, diverse and populous democracy, a beacon of how large and successful democracies can be, to a deteriorated state in which majoritarianism has directly eliminated and is trying to eliminate the rights of Muslims, Sikhs, Dalits and Christians right across India. This includes lynchings, killings, shootings and unprecedented violence against community members simply for who they are. I am troubled by tonight's debate because the chorus of my colleagues from the Liberal bench, the Bloc Québécois, the Green Party and New Democrats has come together at a time when our country needs us to, to dwell deeply on the concerns of many Canadians, on the concerns of their safety. Absent, of course, are Conservative colleagues, who very often in this place speak of other foreign governments and their interference in our democracies. However, they are now silent. When a Canadian has been gunned down, they have no words, not even words of sympathy for a fellow Canadian who has been killed. Shame. I call on the Leader of the Opposition to make his truth known to Canadians, make the truth known of his party's close affiliation to that of the Prime Minister of India, of Modi's BJP government. It has been said that the former prime minister, a Conservative prime minister, Stephen Harper congratulated and celebrated Mr. Modi and his government. These are the reasons why we hear silence today. My friends, these are the reasons why we are hearing silence at a time when we must come together to protect our institutions and to protect Canadians. I now want to speak about some of the partner organizations here in Canada. They should continue to do their work, continue to do what is right, continue to speak truth to power, because here in Canada, we will continue to protect them. We will continue to fight every single day so that their rights are protected, so that their dignity is protected and so that their security is protected. New Democrats stand for that. Canadians expect that. We will continue to fight for that.

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Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal (Surrey—Newton, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 9:44:45 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the member mentioned in his speech that the Conservatives are not speaking in the House today and that their leader is backtracking from the statement he made yesterday in the House. I just want to find out from the hon. member if the Conservatives got a call from Prime Minister Modi or former prime minister Stephen Harper to not speak on this topic and to backtrack from the statement that the Leader of the Opposition made yesterday in the House.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais

Sep/19/23 9:45:28 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank my hon. colleague, who is a champion for his community, particularly right now. His leadership is important not only to Canadians but, of course, to many of those of Indian descent. I want to thank him for his words today and for championing something very difficult. To the member and his family, I wish them all the best. As to why we are hearing silence from the Conservative Party today in the face of what is a tremendously serious issue to our national security and our sovereignty, I will simply quote the prime minister of yesterday, Stephen Harper. He once said that Prime Minister Modi was a good friend and was the best partner that Canada could have in India. I would challenge that narrative and suggest that when a Canadian dies, when a Canadian is shot dead, it is time to speak. Now is the time to oppose such words. My deepest request to the Leader of the Opposition today would be to retract those words. Retract and condemn those words by Prime Minister Stephen Harper in light of the news we have now heard.

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Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP)

Sep/19/23 9:46:42 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank my colleague, the member for Edmonton Griesbach, for his powerful speech. I think it was a difficult speech to make, but what we need in the House more than ever is for us to speak truth to power and to challenge each other to stand up, because what is at stake is Canadians' safety and Canada's sovereignty. To that end, my question is this. The Conservatives feel that we must take on foreign interference with China. It follows, then, that if they want to ensure all Canadians are protected against foreign interference, should they not stand up in the House today in this take-note debate, join with all of us, the Liberals, the NDP and the Bloc, and stand united to send a clear message to the Indian government that we will not tolerate this kind of action and this kind of threat to Canadians? No matter where we come from and where we are in our communities today, we are united as one and we are all equals as Canadians.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais

Sep/19/23 9:48:04 p.m.
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Madam Chair, when I decided to put my name forward to represent the fine people of Edmonton Griesbach, I knew it was on the principle of knowing that it would be my duty to protect Canadians. It is our duty to protect our country. It is our duty to protect the principles of the right to free speech, the right to dissent and the right to exist in a peaceful country. I do not back down from that commitment and pledge today. However, I would suggest that the Conservatives fulfill their oath of office, represent the communities they say they represent, stand in this place and make clear that we will not tolerate when Canadians are murdered.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP)

Sep/19/23 9:48:58 p.m.
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Madam Chair, earlier today in the debate, it was mentioned that there are those in this place who are putting trade policy before human rights. I would like to hear my hon. colleague's reaction to that and thoughts on it.

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