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Context: House Hansard - 232 - Oct/16/23

Oct/16/23 10:01:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am not going to speculate on what she is suggesting. What we do know for sure is that Hamas committed despicable war crimes, and it livestreamed them. For that, Hamas needs to be eliminated.

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay (South Surrey—White Rock, CPC)

Oct/16/23 10:02:13 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, October 7, 2023, is a day now permanently pierced into history, when the world witnessed evil in its purest form. Israelis were wrapping up the festival of Sukkot when sirens rang out. Israel was under violent attack. Like many Canadians, I was horrified to wake up to the news, images and videos coming out of Israel. This deliberate, coordinated attack by Hamas terrorists was despicable, unjustified, and I condemn it unequivocally. Israel has the right to defend itself, just as Canada would if this attack were carried out on our soil. This should not be difficult to say, but some Canadian politicians and some in the media could not find the moral courage to say so. We have seen statements put out by both Liberal and NDP politicians that were so outrageous and morally bankrupt they had to be walked back or deleted. The CBC instructed its employees to avoid referring to Hamas as terrorists. Our own state broadcaster ignored the fact that Hamas was put on the terrorist entity list by the Government of Canada in 2002, describing Hamas as “a radical Islamist-nationalist terrorist organization”. We have seen reprehensible celebrations of these terrorist attacks right here in Canada, including, shamefully, in my own community in B.C. On Friday, in my community, a rabbi's home was vandalized with eggs and a swastika was drawn on his window. This is disgusting and unacceptable. This hate should not be tolerated in our country, full stop. I condemn these celebrations and condemn the ideology of hate that has no place in Canada. There is no moral equivalence between Hamas terrorists who slaughter innocents, savagely rape women and children, behead babies and use their own people as human shields, and Israel exercising their right to defend themselves. This is a time for moral clarity. I hope the CBC is paying attention when I say that Hamas is not a militant organization, a resistance or an activist group. Hamas is a sadistic, barbaric, terrorist death cult with no respect for human life. There can be no negotiating with Hamas. They must be defeated and destroyed. Their enablers must be exposed for the vile anti-Semites that they are. This includes state sponsors of terrorism, including the dictatorship in Tehran. I have seen first-hand the strength of the Israeli people and how Israelis live under existential threat from Hamas, funded by Iran and other hostile actors in the region. Now this threat is reality. My heart breaks for the families who have been destroyed, especially the families of the seven Canadians who were ruthlessly murdered. Last night in South Surrey, I attended a rally in support of the Jewish community and spoke to friends of Ben Mizrachi, a 22-year-old British Columbian murdered at the music festival. He was using his training as a medic with the IDF to help people who were wounded in the attack. He was trying to save lives when he tragically lost his own. For those still in danger, we must do everything we can to bring them home safe. As we continue to watch the horrific events unfolding in Israel, there are concrete actions that Canada can and must take. First, Canada must criminalize the IRGC, the terrorist arm of the Iranian government. Today again, the Liberals blocked the passage of a Conservative bill that would have taken this necessary first step. Second, there are Canadians missing and presumed to be among the hostages. The Government of Canada must demand the immediate release of our citizens and all hostages taken by Hamas. Third, Conservatives are calling for a full review of all foreign aid programs to ensure that no Canadian tax dollars are going to support terrorism. Fourth, we must protect Canadian places of worship. Every person of faith has a constitutional right to worship here in Canada. “Never again” is a phrase associated with the atrocities of the Holocaust. Never again is now. Jewish people around the world are remarkably resilient. They choose to believe the promises of scripture that better days and peace lie ahead. However, they should not be continuously forced to prove their resilience by malevolent forces against their very existence. I am proud to stand with our friend and ally, Israel.

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Hon. Michael Chong (Wellington—Halton Hills, CPC)

Oct/16/23 10:07:08 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague knows that the Integrated Terrorism Assessment Centre of the Government of Canada has a national terrorism threat level. When Parliament Hill was attacked In October 2014, which was the last terrorist attack here on Canadian soil, it was set to medium, which is that a terrorist attack could occur. Does the hon. member not think it is a good idea for the Government of Canada to update Canadians about the threat level that communities like the Jewish community, like the Muslim community, might be facing and either to reaffirm the threat level at medium or to upgrade the threat level to high, a likely chance of an attack occurring, in order to either reassure Canadians or arm them with the information they need to protect their religious and cultural communities?

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Oct/16/23 10:08:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am very concerned about the threat level here in Canada and in the United States. We know that we are seen as one North American entity by a lot of the bad actors in the world. We are referred to as the little Satan with the U.S. being the big Satan. We know there are people among us here who would do harm. I think it is essential that the Government of Canada assess the present threat level and inform Canadians.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Oct/16/23 10:08:48 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think everyone in this House recognizes that adherence to international law is key and that international law needs to be applied equally. Would the member agree that collective punishment is an example of being against international law?

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Oct/16/23 10:09:13 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I agree that international law should be observed, but we are talking about extraordinary circumstances. We are talking about a surprise attack on a sovereign nation in the most brutal and horrific manner where innocents were slaughtered. They were not soldiers. They were people in their homes having Shabbat dinner or asleep in their beds. Babies are no threat to anyone. I understand Israel's right to defend itself, and it must choose how and when to do so. It is making every effort, from what I can see, to warn those who were not involved to go to safety.

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Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Oct/16/23 10:09:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to follow up on the question raised by the hon. member for Edmonton Strathcona. It is clear that international law was violated by Hamas. This, I think, we agree on. Would the hon. colleague not also agree that it would be inappropriate for any state to violate international law in risk spots and to do everything possible to protect the lives of civilians?

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Oct/16/23 10:10:29 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I believe that Israel, many times in the past, has been under violent attack from aggressor states all around it. We must remember that Israel is a very small country with vast aggressor states around it that mean to do it harm, which have vowed to push Israelis and the state of Israel into the sea. In these circumstances, I think that Israel has always tried to follow international law, absolutely. I believe it will do so again.

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Mr. Luc Berthold (Mégantic—L'Érable, CPC)

Oct/16/23 10:11:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to know something. Obviously this terrorist organization, Hamas, could not have organized a terrorist operation of this magnitude without support from people with means. We are talking here about the funded Iranian group, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. Does my colleague agree that the House has a duty to condemn this group and recognize it as a terrorist organization?

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Oct/16/23 10:12:06 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I personally and all of my Conservative colleagues have called for the IRGC to be declared a terrorist organization by the government, so that it could not organize here in Canada or raise funds here in Canada. On the Liberal side they have gone so far as to call it a state sponsor of terrorism. Again, this is not a drill. This is reality. Iran sponsors terror throughout the region and, in fact, probably elsewhere outside the Middle East. We need to see it for what it is, call it out and stop the flow of funds to terrorist organizations like Hamas.

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Mr. Sameer Zuberi (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Diversity, Inclusion and Persons with Disabilities, Lib.)

Oct/16/23 10:13:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Toronto—Danforth, my friend within my party. This debate, this moment and this week have been extremely difficult for all who are watching what is happening overseas. It has caused fear, trauma, anger and hurt. These are emotions that are flowing through all of us. These are emotions we have to recognize. These emotions are legitimate and valid. It is important that we take stock of them. On Saturday, October 7, I attended a Shabbat lunch with a rabbi in my riding. It was in his home, which is also a synagogue. That morning, the full scale of what happened, with the escalation of violence and the terror caused by Hamas, was not fully realized. However, we sat together, and the rabbi said that they were honoured by guests from outside of the community and that their Sukkot is complete when they welcome those from outside the community. We are all part of the puzzle. We are all part of the human family. We complete each other. We all have a role to play. One week after that, and then some, a lot has happened. We have seen terrible things within Israel and terrible violence within Gaza. People died and people are dying now, as we speak. It should disturb us deeply. It should keep us awake at night. Why is that? Is it because lives are being lost right now? We know that is not the end of it. We know violence will continue to be unleashed. Will this solve the question we are all trying to solve, which at its core, at its root, is to build a safe and peaceful environment within the Middle East for both Israelis and Palestinians? Take it here, home to Canada. We have seen this manifest within our communities. I was speaking with a rabbi in my riding earlier today, and he was telling me how children stayed home on Friday because of a threat that came from overseas. Children did not go to school, because they were worried. In my own family, my sister-in-law wears the hijab. This morning, as she was driving my nine-year-old niece, her daughter, to school, she was accosted. Two different people within my riding gave her the middle finger. One followed her. She thought it was too unsafe to complete that drive. She returned home. Things are happening within our communities. We have to recognize this. It is critical that we do so. We should have vigorous debate within the House and even within our communities, but there are limits. There are bounds, and we must know those bounds and recognize those limits. To get to the nub of the issue, the core of it, how do we not find ourselves in this cycle that has continued for so long? We must, in the end, choose to ensure that everyone in the region lives in peace and dignity, and that happens only through the creation of viable states for both Israelis and Palestinians, with a viable state for Palestinians too. Once everyone in the region can live in peace and security, and when our neighbour can live in peace and security, only then will we live in peace and security.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Oct/16/23 10:18:12 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I know my colleague cares deeply about his constituents and the community. Like him, I have been hearing horrific tales and stories about people. The mother of one of my colleagues was speaking Urdu, and my colleague had to tell her mom to stop speaking that and to go home, because she was so worried there would be violence perpetrated against her. The entire Jewish community is afraid. The entire Palestinian community is afraid. I am deeply worried that there is going to be an increase in violence in this country, that we are going to see an increase in hate crimes and that people are going to get harmed. I wonder if the member could talk about how he sees his government taking action on this and what can be done to protect people.

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Mr. Sameer Zuberi

Oct/16/23 10:19:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is an excellent question from the member from across the aisle. We need to recognize that a lot is happening within our communities. It is important for every member of the House to understand that. We need to bring people together, as difficult as that is. We must do so as leaders. Within the chamber, we are all leaders in our own right. Within our communities, we must do our utmost to bring people together, as difficult as that is. We have to also allow people to work through what they are experiencing. We have to be there and respect that people are hurting.

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Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe (Lac-Saint-Jean, BQ)

Oct/16/23 10:20:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his speech. We have worked together on a number of human rights issues, and that is exactly what we are doing again this evening. I might disappoint some people this evening and this might sound glum, but I doubt there are many people in Israel or Palestine who are watching us right now. I am trying to determine what we can actually do, what impact we can really have on what is happening right now. One thing is possible. Canada could exert pressure to create humanitarian corridors. I truly believe that this could be possible if my colleague's government were prepared to take action. I am sure my friend would like to see that happen. Does he know whether that is happening? If not, will my colleague put pressure on his own government to make it happen?

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Mr. Sameer Zuberi

Oct/16/23 10:21:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think that dialogue is very important. We need to have conversations and build bridges with other countries to promote peace. We also have to promote a viable solution. It is very difficult to have this conversation today because of the war that is currently taking place. However, it is absolutely necessary that we maintain this objective. It is absolutely necessary that we create a society and a world better than what we see at this moment.

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Hon. Michael Chong (Wellington—Halton Hills, CPC)

Oct/16/23 10:22:08 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the member, since he is part of the ministerial party, about a question I asked one of my colleagues earlier. There is a lot of fear, as he has mentioned, in both the Jewish and Muslim communities across Canada, that they may be attacked individually or that their cultural, religious or educational institutions may be attacked. The government's integrated terrorism assessment centre has assessed Canada's national terrorism threat level at medium since October 2014. Does he not think it would be useful for the integrated terrorism assessment centre to indicate to the public if the level remains at medium or to assess it at a different level in order to reassure Canadians or better equip them to ensure their safety?

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Mr. Sameer Zuberi

Oct/16/23 10:23:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there is certainly a spike happening right now in discrimination. Anti-Semitism, anti-Palestinian discrimination, anti-Arab discrimination and Islamophobia are happening within our society and communities. In America, we saw that a six-year-old Muslim boy was stabbed to death over 20 times. I am deeply concerned about the future, not only overseas but also here. We need to bring the temperature down and be there for our communities.

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, Lib.)

Oct/16/23 10:24:07 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, tonight I am going to take more of a personal approach to this debate. I am going to be speaking as a Jewish woman and a Jewish mother here in Canada about what the past week and few days have been like. On the day of the mass murder and kidnappings by Hamas in Israel, like many people, I tuned to the television. I felt horror and fear. Me and my daughters were watching TV on a constant loop, and we watched every piece come out. We were on social media, and I will get back to that because that was not a good place to be. The whole time we were so focused. There were so many innocent Israeli people killed, people we could relate to, such as people in their homes or at a concert, and it was so much emotion for us. Perhaps the feeling that had me struggling the most over this past week was disappointment, and the disappointment comes from the reactions we saw around us on day one and two from neighbours, friends and commentators on TV. They all jumped from the expression of sympathy and empathy to talking about context, and that was so hard because we were listening to people saying that violent action against innocent Israeli people, largely Jewish people, could all be explained if we just talked a little bit about history. It hurt to hear that. It made me sad. It is important to say that so many people around us, and I am speaking for me, my daughter and other people I saw, were not able to just stop the clock for a moment to mourn and support. That left me and a lot of people like me feeling vulnerable. I am taking this moment to talk to people who, like me, just needed that moment to process, to be believed and to be comforted. Surely we can do that for each other without having to delve into historical context. I saw that this hurt was felt by a lot of people who saw some pretty churlish things on social media. It could be a very difficult point. I will start by saying that what Hamas did was one of the most unimaginable, awful things by murdering and kidnapping over 1,000 people in a single day. Hamas must be brought to justice. However, I want to be clear that when I am speaking against Hamas, I am not talking about the Palestinian people. This is an important thing right now in where we find ourselves because I find too many people are conflating the two, and they are not the same. One is a terrorist organization and one is a people, and many of those people are now paying a heavy price for the actions taken by the terrorist organization of Hamas. I am concerned about the safety of the people in Gaza. I know so many Canadians, like me, in our communities who are worried about friends and family and people in Gaza right now. The fact that people around me were so quick to jump over from fear, anger and grief does not justify people skipping over that when we are talking about the situation of the Palestinian people in Gaza. We must call for the release of the hostages who are being held by Hamas. We must allow for humanitarian support corridors. I want to get back to talking about the people here at home to make sure that we take this moment because it has been a really difficult week, and I hear them. Jewish people in our communities who are concerned about their safety, and concerned for their children to be wearing the Star of David out there, I hear them, and I am with them. We can be there for each other. For Palestinian people and Muslims in our community who are concerned about their children being harassed or attacked, and concerned about safety and being visible in our communities, I hear them and see them, too. We can come together in this moment, and we can show why Canada is such an amazing place to live. While I feel and have felt a lot of sadness and disappointment, I also feel great hope and strength from the community around us.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Oct/16/23 10:29:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for sharing some very important personal reflections that I think are very valuable for the House to consider. I want to ask a question on a somewhat different aspect of this debate. It is a question I have asked a few government members. It is about the role of the Iranian regime in supporting Hamas and supporting other terrorist organizations that threaten Israel. Up until now, it has not been the position of the government to list the IRGC as a terrorist organization. I know there are some members of the government who have individually expressed support for the idea of listing the IRGC as a terrorist organization. This is another example. We have seen many examples in recent years of IRGC violence. Does the member think there may possibly be a change coming in the government's position on listing the IRGC as a terrorist organization?

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin

Oct/16/23 10:30:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as the member noted, I was not really focusing in my speech today on the fundamentals of international policy and foreign policy. When I was in Mel Lastman Square last week, I saw many Iranian people who were feeling vulnerable about the things happening back in their home country. We have certainly been there to support “Women, life, freedom”, as we say, to support women in Iran. I do not think I have to delve deep into what the answers are for foreign policy today, but I will say this is very much about showing support for Canadians of Iranian heritage who may have been feeling very vulnerable over the past year.

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