SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 232 - Oct/16/23

Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Oct/16/23 10:09:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to follow up on the question raised by the hon. member for Edmonton Strathcona. It is clear that international law was violated by Hamas. This, I think, we agree on. Would the hon. colleague not also agree that it would be inappropriate for any state to violate international law in risk spots and to do everything possible to protect the lives of civilians?

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Oct/16/23 10:10:29 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I believe that Israel, many times in the past, has been under violent attack from aggressor states all around it. We must remember that Israel is a very small country with vast aggressor states around it that mean to do it harm, which have vowed to push Israelis and the state of Israel into the sea. In these circumstances, I think that Israel has always tried to follow international law, absolutely. I believe it will do so again.

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Mr. Luc Berthold (Mégantic—L'Érable, CPC)

Oct/16/23 10:11:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to know something. Obviously this terrorist organization, Hamas, could not have organized a terrorist operation of this magnitude without support from people with means. We are talking here about the funded Iranian group, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. Does my colleague agree that the House has a duty to condemn this group and recognize it as a terrorist organization?

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Oct/16/23 10:12:06 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I personally and all of my Conservative colleagues have called for the IRGC to be declared a terrorist organization by the government, so that it could not organize here in Canada or raise funds here in Canada. On the Liberal side they have gone so far as to call it a state sponsor of terrorism. Again, this is not a drill. This is reality. Iran sponsors terror throughout the region and, in fact, probably elsewhere outside the Middle East. We need to see it for what it is, call it out and stop the flow of funds to terrorist organizations like Hamas.

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Mr. Sameer Zuberi (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Diversity, Inclusion and Persons with Disabilities, Lib.)

Oct/16/23 10:13:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Toronto—Danforth, my friend within my party. This debate, this moment and this week have been extremely difficult for all who are watching what is happening overseas. It has caused fear, trauma, anger and hurt. These are emotions that are flowing through all of us. These are emotions we have to recognize. These emotions are legitimate and valid. It is important that we take stock of them. On Saturday, October 7, I attended a Shabbat lunch with a rabbi in my riding. It was in his home, which is also a synagogue. That morning, the full scale of what happened, with the escalation of violence and the terror caused by Hamas, was not fully realized. However, we sat together, and the rabbi said that they were honoured by guests from outside of the community and that their Sukkot is complete when they welcome those from outside the community. We are all part of the puzzle. We are all part of the human family. We complete each other. We all have a role to play. One week after that, and then some, a lot has happened. We have seen terrible things within Israel and terrible violence within Gaza. People died and people are dying now, as we speak. It should disturb us deeply. It should keep us awake at night. Why is that? Is it because lives are being lost right now? We know that is not the end of it. We know violence will continue to be unleashed. Will this solve the question we are all trying to solve, which at its core, at its root, is to build a safe and peaceful environment within the Middle East for both Israelis and Palestinians? Take it here, home to Canada. We have seen this manifest within our communities. I was speaking with a rabbi in my riding earlier today, and he was telling me how children stayed home on Friday because of a threat that came from overseas. Children did not go to school, because they were worried. In my own family, my sister-in-law wears the hijab. This morning, as she was driving my nine-year-old niece, her daughter, to school, she was accosted. Two different people within my riding gave her the middle finger. One followed her. She thought it was too unsafe to complete that drive. She returned home. Things are happening within our communities. We have to recognize this. It is critical that we do so. We should have vigorous debate within the House and even within our communities, but there are limits. There are bounds, and we must know those bounds and recognize those limits. To get to the nub of the issue, the core of it, how do we not find ourselves in this cycle that has continued for so long? We must, in the end, choose to ensure that everyone in the region lives in peace and dignity, and that happens only through the creation of viable states for both Israelis and Palestinians, with a viable state for Palestinians too. Once everyone in the region can live in peace and security, and when our neighbour can live in peace and security, only then will we live in peace and security.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Oct/16/23 10:18:12 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I know my colleague cares deeply about his constituents and the community. Like him, I have been hearing horrific tales and stories about people. The mother of one of my colleagues was speaking Urdu, and my colleague had to tell her mom to stop speaking that and to go home, because she was so worried there would be violence perpetrated against her. The entire Jewish community is afraid. The entire Palestinian community is afraid. I am deeply worried that there is going to be an increase in violence in this country, that we are going to see an increase in hate crimes and that people are going to get harmed. I wonder if the member could talk about how he sees his government taking action on this and what can be done to protect people.

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Mr. Sameer Zuberi

Oct/16/23 10:19:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is an excellent question from the member from across the aisle. We need to recognize that a lot is happening within our communities. It is important for every member of the House to understand that. We need to bring people together, as difficult as that is. We must do so as leaders. Within the chamber, we are all leaders in our own right. Within our communities, we must do our utmost to bring people together, as difficult as that is. We have to also allow people to work through what they are experiencing. We have to be there and respect that people are hurting.

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Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe (Lac-Saint-Jean, BQ)

Oct/16/23 10:20:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his speech. We have worked together on a number of human rights issues, and that is exactly what we are doing again this evening. I might disappoint some people this evening and this might sound glum, but I doubt there are many people in Israel or Palestine who are watching us right now. I am trying to determine what we can actually do, what impact we can really have on what is happening right now. One thing is possible. Canada could exert pressure to create humanitarian corridors. I truly believe that this could be possible if my colleague's government were prepared to take action. I am sure my friend would like to see that happen. Does he know whether that is happening? If not, will my colleague put pressure on his own government to make it happen?

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Mr. Sameer Zuberi

Oct/16/23 10:21:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think that dialogue is very important. We need to have conversations and build bridges with other countries to promote peace. We also have to promote a viable solution. It is very difficult to have this conversation today because of the war that is currently taking place. However, it is absolutely necessary that we maintain this objective. It is absolutely necessary that we create a society and a world better than what we see at this moment.

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Hon. Michael Chong (Wellington—Halton Hills, CPC)

Oct/16/23 10:22:08 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the member, since he is part of the ministerial party, about a question I asked one of my colleagues earlier. There is a lot of fear, as he has mentioned, in both the Jewish and Muslim communities across Canada, that they may be attacked individually or that their cultural, religious or educational institutions may be attacked. The government's integrated terrorism assessment centre has assessed Canada's national terrorism threat level at medium since October 2014. Does he not think it would be useful for the integrated terrorism assessment centre to indicate to the public if the level remains at medium or to assess it at a different level in order to reassure Canadians or better equip them to ensure their safety?

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Mr. Sameer Zuberi

Oct/16/23 10:23:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there is certainly a spike happening right now in discrimination. Anti-Semitism, anti-Palestinian discrimination, anti-Arab discrimination and Islamophobia are happening within our society and communities. In America, we saw that a six-year-old Muslim boy was stabbed to death over 20 times. I am deeply concerned about the future, not only overseas but also here. We need to bring the temperature down and be there for our communities.

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, Lib.)

Oct/16/23 10:24:07 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, tonight I am going to take more of a personal approach to this debate. I am going to be speaking as a Jewish woman and a Jewish mother here in Canada about what the past week and few days have been like. On the day of the mass murder and kidnappings by Hamas in Israel, like many people, I tuned to the television. I felt horror and fear. Me and my daughters were watching TV on a constant loop, and we watched every piece come out. We were on social media, and I will get back to that because that was not a good place to be. The whole time we were so focused. There were so many innocent Israeli people killed, people we could relate to, such as people in their homes or at a concert, and it was so much emotion for us. Perhaps the feeling that had me struggling the most over this past week was disappointment, and the disappointment comes from the reactions we saw around us on day one and two from neighbours, friends and commentators on TV. They all jumped from the expression of sympathy and empathy to talking about context, and that was so hard because we were listening to people saying that violent action against innocent Israeli people, largely Jewish people, could all be explained if we just talked a little bit about history. It hurt to hear that. It made me sad. It is important to say that so many people around us, and I am speaking for me, my daughter and other people I saw, were not able to just stop the clock for a moment to mourn and support. That left me and a lot of people like me feeling vulnerable. I am taking this moment to talk to people who, like me, just needed that moment to process, to be believed and to be comforted. Surely we can do that for each other without having to delve into historical context. I saw that this hurt was felt by a lot of people who saw some pretty churlish things on social media. It could be a very difficult point. I will start by saying that what Hamas did was one of the most unimaginable, awful things by murdering and kidnapping over 1,000 people in a single day. Hamas must be brought to justice. However, I want to be clear that when I am speaking against Hamas, I am not talking about the Palestinian people. This is an important thing right now in where we find ourselves because I find too many people are conflating the two, and they are not the same. One is a terrorist organization and one is a people, and many of those people are now paying a heavy price for the actions taken by the terrorist organization of Hamas. I am concerned about the safety of the people in Gaza. I know so many Canadians, like me, in our communities who are worried about friends and family and people in Gaza right now. The fact that people around me were so quick to jump over from fear, anger and grief does not justify people skipping over that when we are talking about the situation of the Palestinian people in Gaza. We must call for the release of the hostages who are being held by Hamas. We must allow for humanitarian support corridors. I want to get back to talking about the people here at home to make sure that we take this moment because it has been a really difficult week, and I hear them. Jewish people in our communities who are concerned about their safety, and concerned for their children to be wearing the Star of David out there, I hear them, and I am with them. We can be there for each other. For Palestinian people and Muslims in our community who are concerned about their children being harassed or attacked, and concerned about safety and being visible in our communities, I hear them and see them, too. We can come together in this moment, and we can show why Canada is such an amazing place to live. While I feel and have felt a lot of sadness and disappointment, I also feel great hope and strength from the community around us.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Oct/16/23 10:29:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for sharing some very important personal reflections that I think are very valuable for the House to consider. I want to ask a question on a somewhat different aspect of this debate. It is a question I have asked a few government members. It is about the role of the Iranian regime in supporting Hamas and supporting other terrorist organizations that threaten Israel. Up until now, it has not been the position of the government to list the IRGC as a terrorist organization. I know there are some members of the government who have individually expressed support for the idea of listing the IRGC as a terrorist organization. This is another example. We have seen many examples in recent years of IRGC violence. Does the member think there may possibly be a change coming in the government's position on listing the IRGC as a terrorist organization?

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin

Oct/16/23 10:30:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as the member noted, I was not really focusing in my speech today on the fundamentals of international policy and foreign policy. When I was in Mel Lastman Square last week, I saw many Iranian people who were feeling vulnerable about the things happening back in their home country. We have certainly been there to support “Women, life, freedom”, as we say, to support women in Iran. I do not think I have to delve deep into what the answers are for foreign policy today, but I will say this is very much about showing support for Canadians of Iranian heritage who may have been feeling very vulnerable over the past year.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

Oct/16/23 10:31:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her insightful speech. Her remarks were very refreshing. I would like to ask her whether she believes there is room to take a step back or for nuance in this debate.

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin

Oct/16/23 10:31:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I really appreciate that question. That is exactly what I was trying to say. I think that sometimes we try too hard to come up with answers right away. From time to time, there are things that we really need to think about. We need to be aware of what impact the things we are saying may be having on others around us. I therefore appreciate that question because sometimes we need to take a moment to think about those around us.

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Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Oct/16/23 10:32:07 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to start by sharing how much I appreciate that the member for Toronto—Danforth spoke from her heart tonight during such a difficult time for her as a Jewish Canadian. In her comments, she spoke about empathy for Palestinian people. As she likely knows, there are hospitals, for example, in Gaza right now that are on the brink of running out of backup generator power. Can she speak to her reflections on what can be done to protect innocent lives in Palestine?

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin

Oct/16/23 10:32:50 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I noted in my comments that humanitarian support in the corridors is essential. I think everyone needs to know that innocent individuals are protected and that we are ensuring, wherever we can, that they have the support they need, and that stands. We can always help by protecting one another more.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP)

Oct/16/23 10:33:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I too want to thank my hon. colleague for the strength she brings to this debate. Knowing her background as a Jewish Canadian, I cannot even imagine this, so I appreciate that. She spoke a lot about the local impact. I come from London, where we are still dealing with a lot of the impacts of what happened to our London family. To move forward, I have been asking about concrete actions we can take in this place and that the government can take to continue to support all of our communities when we are dealing with such tragedy and acts of violence and hatred.

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin

Oct/16/23 10:34:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think that part of it is also showing and evidencing civility, thoughtfulness and caring among ourselves as parliamentarians. I think that this can go a long way toward setting an example back home in our communities, listening and being there for each other. Sometimes it is about the different programs and sometimes it is also just about making sure that we can be there for one another.

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