44th Parl. 1st Sess.
October 19, 2023 10:00AM
- Oct/19/23 10:52:54 a.m.
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I am just trying to keep people to the topic at hand and to make sure everybody gets to participate.
The hon. Minister of Labour.
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Mr. Speaker, time is of the essence here. The Inflation Reduction Act has passed in the United States. It is perhaps the single greatest industrial policy, and probably the single greatest piece of legislation, that has been passed in any democracy in the world on the issue of energy transition. We have to move, and the way in which we move will determine whether how we move is sustainable and competitive in drawing investment, and we want to do it right. We want to do it with workers on side.
On the issue of time allocations, members can please tell me what in the bill is so bad about including workers in decisions. Members can tell me if there are larger issues that are unresolved, as there are in the House on issues of energy transition, but on the issue of whether workers should have a role here, let us get to work.
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Mr. Speaker, this flawed bill is a bill to basically create a committee to create a committee, and there would be no assurances within this committee that the 15 positions, other than bureaucracies, would actually represent those workers. They would not represent the worker who is on the dragline in Westmoreland Coal in Estevan or in Bienfait, Saskatchewan. The committee would not have that person there. It would have a bureaucrat or union person who is focused on that aspect, as opposed to knowing exactly what that job is. On top of that, you talked about wanting to listen to the workers. I quote you on that; you want to hear from them directly. Where in the legislation does it say we would have that worker there?
Furthermore, there is no mention in there about communities. You talked about the new sustainable jobs plan. It does not make any mention of sustainable communities or mitigating negative economic impacts. These are important things that would affect each and every one of those workers in Bienfait, in Coronach and around this country who would lose their jobs because of this.
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Mr. Speaker, Bea Bruske, the president of the Canadian Labour Congress, said that workers have raised their voices and have helped make the sustainable jobs act a reality, and that Canada's unions are proud to work with the government to develop legislation that focuses on workers. The International Union of Operating Engineers said that the act “puts the interests of energy workers at the forefront of a low-carbon economy.” The international vice president of the IBEW said that this act shows the government's “commitment to protecting good-paying, highly skilled jobs.” Canada's Building Trades Unions welcomes the bill, saying that the consultation built into this process would “ensure workers are front and centre during this transition.”
If there are issues with the people they elect, then you can take it up with them. However, to say that somehow these people who are there, whom these workers elect, are elites is to put us into question. What are we? Are we elites?
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- Oct/19/23 10:56:30 a.m.
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I want to remind folks to speak through the Chair. The word “you” has been used a lot. I would ask members to try to mitigate what is happening by talking through the Speaker.
Questions and comments, the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.
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Mr. Speaker, I was here yesterday when everybody would have known that we were going to be debating this bill. I saw something quite remarkable once again from the Conservatives, which was their using a concurrence motion on a report that the government has acknowledged it fully supports, as a way to slow down and prevent this legislation from coming forward.
I cannot help but think that, at the end of day, what is really going on here is that it is just the Conservatives' position about, in particular, sustainable jobs and the clean-tech industry. I know that the minister is from Atlantic Canada and that the Conservative Party is also, to the bewilderment of probably the majority of Canadians, against the Atlantic accord, which would set up Atlantic Canada to really drive forward the technology and the economy of the future. Even when all the premiers are supportive of it, the Conservative Party of Canada, for some reason, is against that, too.
Would the minister not agree with me that this has more to do with the Conservatives' continually trying to filibuster and prevent any legislation from going forward that supports the economy of the future and, in particular, the green and renewable economy?
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Mr. Speaker, I remember when the Atlantic accord came about. It came about because of the good work of prime ministers like Brian Mulroney, excellent politicians like Pat Carney and, of course, the indomitable John Crosbie. One of the things that the Atlantic accord fundamentally does is acknowledge the jurisdictions of the provinces and the federal government. It clearly lays out a stable regime to attract investment, and it worked.
We created, in the past 25 or 30 years, an offshore industry in my province that is now responsible for the majority of its revenue. This is so important. The Atlantic accord is held up with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is a document of prosperity where I come from. Now, we want to move the same regime that respects the jurisdictions of the provinces and of the federal government, rightly, and we want to apply it to an industry that is already attracting billions of dollars for offshore wind and hydrogen.
The same workers who work proudly in our oil and gas industry in the Newfoundland offshore are moving to these jobs as well. It is an extraordinary opportunity. Why would one be against it?
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Mr. Speaker, once is not a habit, but failing to consider existing laws in Quebec has certainly become a habit for the federal government. The paternalistic attitude of the federal level remains unchanged.
I would ask my colleague if he has truly taken into consideration Quebec's existing laws. Again, it is as though we do not even exist.
I will refresh my colleague's memory. In 1995, the National Assembly of Quebec introduced and passed legislation promoting the development of labour training. Then, there was the Commission des partenaires du marché du travail, which recently celebrated its 25th anniversary. Since 1997, we have also had an agreement with the federal government, the Canada-Quebec Labour Market Agreement in Principle.
Bill C-50 makes no mention of that. If the minister wants to have Quebec's co‑operation, did he take into consideration the existing laws in Quebec? If not, are the Liberals going to do what they usually do and meddle in our affairs, criticize what Quebec does, show up with their ideas and claim they can override everything?
I invite the minister to give us an honest answer. Did he take this reality into consideration in his bill or, if not, will he correct this and reach an agreement with Quebec by respecting the existing laws of the National Assembly of Quebec that are already in place and work very well?
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Mr. Speaker, I do not find anything particularly paternalistic about this government's or any government's talking directly to workers, and I do not need anybody to tell me that I cannot do that. I also do not find it necessarily duplicative because some other government had spoken to them as well. We need to speak to them. More importantly, we need to listen to them, I think.
I think that the important thing about this is that it also builds on an important policy coming out of NRCan about regional tables, because this country is big. It is different. Our politics and our economies are different. We come together in this place to find commonalities, but at the end of the day, we have to embrace those differences. My province and its use of energy, its development and production of energy, are very different from Quebec's and, in some ways, they are very similar on issues of hydroelectricity. However, on issues of oil and gas, and right now at least on issues of hydrogen and issues of offshore, my province is very different. We have to take into account particular views of each part of the country in order for each part not only to be acknowledged but also to prosper.
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Mr. Speaker, I am really glad that we are moving forward on the bill before us. The NDP worked very hard to ensure that workers were in fact at the table for the conversation and played a part in this legislation.
The Biden administration has moved on an all-of-government approach and is looking to make really progressive changes on clean energy. I think that it is really important that our government keep pace with one of our largest partners in terms of the economy, etc. This legislation is essential for moving beyond the promises of just investments and tax credits, and I would like to hear about how this legislation could put us on that world stage, as we need to move forward with it. We need to do that very quickly.
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Mr. Speaker, it is a huge competitive advantage to make sure not only that workers are at the table but also that they are helping us lead these decisions. That in itself is a competitive advantage. It is a competitive advantage when we put in place the mechanisms to make sure that they do have that voice, that it is heeded and that they lead. We do not have all the answers in this place. The heads of the companies do not have all the answers, by any means. I would argue, and they have told me this, that not all the heads of the union leadership have the skills necessary to do what we are talking about. We are talking about the workers on the ground. It is a competitive advantage as we look at some of the phenomenal things that are happening in the United States and particularly with this president and the Inflation Reduction Act, but I think this, at the heart of it, is our competitive advantage in this country: putting workers at the centre.
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Mr. Speaker, I am wondering whether the member could provide an explanation of how important it is that the government be able to pass legislation. It would appear, based on yesterday's filibuster, that the Conservatives do not want the legislation passed. Without time allocation, we will not be able to get it passed. Could the member give his perspective as to why it is so important that we get this passed?
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Mr. Speaker, we have an opportunity, with this legislation, to make sure workers are at the centre of the most important decisions in the biggest challenges facing this country today.
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- Oct/19/23 11:04:57 a.m.
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It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings at this time to put forthwith the question on the motion now before the House.
The question is on the motion.
If a member participating in person wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division, or if a member of a recognized party participating in person wishes to request a recorded division, I invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.
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- Oct/19/23 11:06:04 a.m.
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- Oct/19/23 11:06:04 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded division.
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I declare the motion carried.
I wish to inform the House that because of the proceedings on the time allocation motion, Government Orders will be extended by 30 minutes.
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Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak to Bill C-50.
I am never surprised when I see the Conservative tactics, whether it is on Bill C-50 or Bill C-49. However, Canadians are telling us, as parliamentarians, what issues are important to them, one being jobs.
Jobs are so critically important. Canadians from coast to coast to coast want to know what the Canadian and provincial governments are putting into place so that we have good middle-class jobs well into the future.
Whether it was Bill C-49 or now Bill C-50, the Government of Canada, in co-operation, in good part, with other parties, although not the Conservative Party, has been able to get important legislation through.
As someone said to me, the word that comes to mind when we think of the Conservative Party nowadays, especially if one reflects on its behaviour and the types of things it does to prevent legislation like this from passing, is “reckless”.
The Conservative Party of Canada does not know where it is going. Canadians would be taking a chance, very much a risk, with the Conservative Party today, because it is so reckless in the policies and decisions it makes. We seem to see that more often. The longer the Conservative leader, with the Conservative caucus, focuses on making these policy decisions, people should be concerned. They should be concerned about those middle-class jobs and where the Conservative Party wants to take the country.
Another issue is the environment. This legislation deals specifically with the environment and the need for us to be in a position to build a healthy, strong, net-zero economy, something with which most parties in the chamber are in sync. They understand that this is also a priority of Canadians. Canadians are concerned about the global environment and what is taking place in Canada today.
The number of forest fires, storms and floods have a direct correlation to our environment. Canadians are aware of that. The government brought forward legislation a few years back on targets to get us to net zero. I believe Canadians can get behind this type of legislation and support it.
Today, Bill C-50 not only talks about that net-zero economy of the future; it also talks about the issue of jobs and transition, ensuring that we have strong healthy middle-class jobs well into the future. Clean energy is being looked at in a very serious way around the world today.
Where is the Conservative Party? I made reference to the word “reckless” and we should maybe emphasize that fact. At the end of the day, we saw where the Conservative Party was when it voted against the Atlantic accord.
An hon. member: Because it is unconstitutional.
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: They do not know what they are talking about. Liberal Atlantic caucus members stood up one after—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
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- Oct/19/23 11:56:58 a.m.
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Order, please. Someday I will get back to my Nova Scotia riding in West Nova.
The hon. parliamentary secretary.
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Mr. Speaker, we cannot make this stuff up. When I say that they are reckless, I am serious.
Let us take a look at Bill C-49. The two bills, Bill C-50 and Bill C-49, are fairly close with respect to the environment and jobs.
Many of my Atlantic colleagues in the Liberal caucus talked about Bill C-49 and how important it was for Atlantic Canada. A Progressive Conservative premier and Liberal premiers, from Newfoundland and Labrador, and Nova Scotia, talked about the importance of this legislation. We heard very clearly from Liberal members from Atlantic Canada. They stepped up and ensured that legislation would pass, because it was all about the future, energy transition and so forth. It was all about coastal waters and future billions of dollars of investment.
Provinces were waiting to bring in mirror legislation, but needed Bill C-49 to pass. What did the Conservatives do? They were prepared to indefinitely filibuster that bill as well. They were prepared to say no to Atlantic Canada. I do not know what they have against Atlantic Canada. It did not matter whether the premier was a Progressive Conservative. After all, those members are the right of the right in the Conservative Party. If we had not brought in time allocation for Bill C-49, it would not have gone to committee. We had to bring in time allocation because the Conservatives made it very clear that they would debate it and debate it and never let it pass at second reading.
Fast forward to today, and again we are talking about jobs and the environment. The title of Bill C-50 is the Canadian sustainable jobs act. The bill's focus is a on building net-zero economy and looking at jobs for the middle class well into the future. How are the Conservatives reacting to the legislation? I understand that there has been one day of debate. We were supposed to debate it yesterday. I was supposed to give my speech on this yesterday and I looked forward it. However, in the wisdom of the reckless Conservative Party of 2023, the Conservatives decided they did not want to debate it. Now we know why: This is yet another piece of legislation that the Conservatives do not want to see get out of second reading.
We recognize that in the last election, Canadians made a decision for a minority government. Fortunately, we have other opposition parties that understand the value of passing legislation. That is the only reason we were able to generate the support that will ultimately see Bill C-50 pass, much to the demise and the disappointment of the Conservative Party of Canada. It is unfortunate.
Thinking Bill C-50 and what it would do, I would be interested to know what is in the bill that is so offensive that the Conservative Party members do not want to see it pass.
Marilyn Gladu: Wait for my speech.
Kevin Lamoureux: The member says “Wait for my speech”, Mr. Speaker. I look forward to hearing what the member has to say.
Let me highlight a few aspects of the bill and maybe the member can provide her thoughts on what I believe are three very positive things. Let us remember that through the legislation, we would establish a sustainable jobs partnership council. It is a committee of sorts. It could be up to, I believe, 15 members. The individuals who would be on that council, which would provide advice to the government, are as follows: business community leaders; labour representatives; representatives of regional interests, like the Atlantic community, and the impact of billions of dollars of potential development, which the Conservatives voted against; indigenous communities; and others who could potentially contribute to a healthy, educated and well-thought-out process.
Why would the Conservative Party of Canada not support that? What do they have against having good ideas being brought forward to the government so it can be in a position to develop a report or take action? We will wait until the next Conservative speaker, who might say something positive about the council, but I will not hold my breath.
Another thing the legislation would do is put in place a sustainable jobs action plan. I talked about the council and how every five years there would an action plan presented to the government, a five-year forecast with respect to what we could look at in the up and coming years ahead. The first report will come out in 2025, and that as a positive thing.
The government is saying that it wants to share with Canadians a plan that can build confidence for industries, whether one is an investor or a young person who wants a sense of what direction to go in with respect to a career. What is wrong with having a five-year plan? Again, it as a positive thing.
Another issue is the sustainable jobs secretariat. The government is bent on having a secretariat, which would make a significant difference. We would have an advisory council that generates ideas, a reporting mechanism and a secretariat to ensure there is some coordination and action taking place. That is also incorporated into the legislation. Again, that is a good thing.
When I look at the legislation, the three things I just finished highlighting are the real basics of the framework that will make a positive difference. It will have a positive outcome for Canadians from coast to coast to coast.
Back in the late winter of 2015, we said that this government's focus would be on Canada's middle class and those aspiring to be a part of it. When we stand and talk about future jobs, those jobs will support Canada's middle class and those who are aspiring to be a part of it. We are looking to build supports.
Let us take a look at what happened yesterday when we brought forward the legislation for debate, which I believe would have been the second day of debate on it. That is when members opposite, including the member who said that she has something to say after me, would have had her opportunity to speak to this legislation. As she knows, that did not happen. Why did that not happen? Instead of talking about jobs, as I referred to yesterday, what members of the Conservative Party want to do is continue their personal attacks, something I have referenced as character assassinations. They believe that as long as they focus on character assassinations, while staying away from the issues, that is all Canadians will focus on. That is what they push.
All one needs to do is look at what they actually did yesterday. Instead of talking about jobs, they brought forward a motion for a concurrence report. When someone brings in such a motion, what they typically want to see is the House pass a report by having a vote, so that we will, in essence, agree to it. That is usually the desire. However, then they moved an amendment to have the standing committee deal with it.
Colleagues can see the relevance of this very quickly, because the motion to defer it to a committee could have been done in a standing committee. Members could have raised the amendment and tried to put that on the agenda of a standing committee, but they chose not to do that. Why did they choose not to do that? It was because Bill C-50 and those points that I just finished highlighting were not debated. Instead, we talked about the concurrence report amendment. As a result, we never had the debate on this.
We can fast-forward to today. The government now brings in time allocation and says that there is a limit to the amount of debate on this bill. I am sure we are going to hear comments from the other side during the debate in terms of how the government is trying to limit debate. In reality, those individuals who are following the debate, looking at the Conservative Party of Canada's behaviour on legislation in general, will find that, when the Conservative Party opposes legislation, it has no intention to pass the legislation.
It does not take much. I could take a dozen grade 12 students from Sisler or Maples high school in my community, R. B. Russell or Children of the Earth, and I could prevent legislation from passing if they were members of Parliament. We would just have to put them up to speak. We all know there is a limit to the amount of time for speech, so all someone has to do is put up one speaker after another and then maybe move an amendment. They can repeat that and it will never get voted on, unless of course a closure motion or time allocation is brought in.
The Conservatives were very clear yesterday. Prior to that I honestly did not know how they were going to be voting on Bill C-50. Now I have come to believe they are going to be voting against it. That is one of the motivating reasons that they did not want the debate to occur yesterday.
The government only has so many hours of debate in any given week. We can take a look at the number of times that the Conservatives have tried to kill that time, as much as they can. We can look at the times when opposition members have stood up to move that so and so be heard, and then they cause the bells to ring, to prevent debate on government bills.
We can look at the times they have tried to adjourn the House, again in an attempt to prevent debate. We can look at the times they denied the House sitting until midnight when the government wanted to provide more time for debate—
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