44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 27, 2023 11:00AM
- Nov/27/23 3:23:14 p.m.
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Before I recognize any other points of order on this issue, I thank the member for Yorkton—Melville for her intervention. I would like to refer her to the end of my ruling from today, which I think is important in addressing the issue that has been raised here.
We need to make sure that we use language that avoids causing great disruption in this House. As I mentioned, while there were terms that were not strictly unparliamentary, they certainly do not contribute to the level of decorum that we all desire, which the member for Yorkton—Melville has raised here today. I encourage all members to ensure that they refrain from raising disorder in this House by using unnecessarily provocative terms.
I will now recognize the other members' points of order and we will bring this to a close relatively quickly.
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- Nov/27/23 3:25:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, on this point of order, I certainly recognize and do not entirely disagree with what the member said. We have a rule that seems to suggest it is okay to imply that somebody is not telling the truth, yet we are unable to call out members on that.
I would be open to suggestions on how to properly adjust our rules to reflect this fact, because I think quite often it happens on both sides of the House that people feel exactly how the member is suggesting. If there is an opportunity to do so, I would strongly encourage her to bring that forward.
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- Nov/27/23 3:25:46 p.m.
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I thank the member for Kingston and the Islands. It is a point that I will be happy to raise with House leaders as I continue regular meetings with them.
I recognize the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle, the hon. House leader.
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- Nov/27/23 3:26:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to touch on something you referenced. You said toward the end of your ruling that indeed other things were said, and you were urging all members to adhere to your statement of a few weeks ago. There is an issue, though. You have now indicated that the member for Miramichi—Grand Lake has to specifically apologize in order to be recognized by the Chair going forward. In fairness, that same standard should be applied to members of the government, who today and last week were making all kinds of terrible insinuations that are on par with calling other members sympathetic to or supporters of Hamas.
What I endeavour to do now is go through the blues for today and the transcripts from last week and provide you with specific examples where that same standard should be applied to government ministers. I will then await your ruling ordering them to apologize for their remarks.
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- Nov/27/23 3:27:10 p.m.
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I look forward to the hon. member's intervention. I will read it and, if necessary, make a determination.
The hon. member for Grande Prairie—Mackenzie.
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- Nov/27/23 3:27:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, today in question period, the House leader of the government stood in her place and accused members on this side of being supporters of Putin's Russian regime in the current war; the current genocidal, illegal invasion into Ukraine.
As a Ukrainian descendant, it is unbelievable to me that the member, having had a personal conversation with the member who made the accusation about the number of people within my own family who were murdered in the Holodomor, in the years that preceded it and that passed after, would stand in this place and make general accusations that members on this side, including me, would in any way, shape or form be supportive of Putin's illegal, genocidal attack on Ukraine.
I would ask that the House leader for the government apologize to members on this side having clearly made the statement today with the intention to be provocative and to elicit a response. The response came from this side in that moment; it caused disorder in that moment.
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- Nov/27/23 3:29:08 p.m.
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I thank the hon. member. We have had a number of interventions on this.
Are there any new interventions or are they on the same point? If they are on the same point, then I would ask all members to take their seats. The point was very eloquently made by the member for—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
The Speaker: I am going to be very clear to all members. I ask all members to please take their seats.
The Chair has heard the interventions that were made on this point. The Chair will review the Hansard to make a determination and will come back to the House if necessary. I thank all members for making very important and thoughtful statements, and I will come back to the House on this matter.
I see the member for New Brunswick Southwest rising, I hope on a new point of order.
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- Nov/27/23 3:30:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is.
With all due respect, I chair the public accounts committee and, last week, I cut a member off who was trying to make a point of order and I was reprimanded for not allowing the member to speak. Every member here has the right to raise a point of order and be heard to bring in new information and their perspectives. I was in the chamber last week and we heard the point of order from the hon. member from the NDP; we heard several. I would implore you, Mr. Speaker, to do the same. If members feel they have points of order to bring that will inform your decision, they should be given the right to be heard in this chamber before you rule.
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- Nov/27/23 3:31:07 p.m.
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I appreciate the intervention from the member for New Brunswick Southwest.
On points of order, I really do ask members to please exercise great restraint, so that we can move on with the business of the House. We will listen to new information that is important to raise.
The hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman.
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- Nov/27/23 3:31:45 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I, too, want to say that I am very proud of my Ukrainian heritage. I am a proud Canadian, I am a patriotic Ukrainian, and everyone in the House knows how passionately I have been defending Ukraine for all these years. For the government House leader, the member of Parliament for Burlington, to actually suggest that any one of us of Ukrainian heritage on the Conservative side would at all be supporting Putin in any way, shape or form is incredibly disappointing. It is gutter politics, and she has taken it to a whole new level. I would ask that the member be reprimanded and forced to apologize in this place, because she has offended all Ukrainians and Canadians and especially everybody in our Conservative caucus for making such an allegation.
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- Nov/27/23 3:32:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am obviously not going to make a ruling from the chair on this. I did not hear exactly what the member heard. I will review Hansard.
The parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.
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- Nov/27/23 3:33:07 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am very concerned with the approach that the opposition is taking on this issue. When the government made other decisions a year or so ago, all sorts of unfair accusations were being made toward the government. The reality—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: The member needs to calm down.
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- Nov/27/23 3:33:39 p.m.
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Order, order.
The hon. parliamentary secretary.
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- Nov/27/23 3:33:47 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Conservative Party en masse last week voted against the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement. As a direct result of that, there have been all sorts of accusations levelled against the Conservative Party for their behaviour. There is nothing wrong with a government minister or others reflecting on that particular vote.
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- Nov/27/23 3:34:15 p.m.
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I am being very patient and generous in listening to points of order.
I would ask that the hon. parliamentary secretary get right to the point. That would very helpful to the Chair.
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- Nov/27/23 3:34:30 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the point is that the government House leader was responding to the way the Conservative Party voted and it was very much in line with the parliamentary rules of this chamber, as we have witnessed on many other votes where opposition members and, at times, even government members reflect on the manner in which a political party votes. It happens all the time.
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- Nov/27/23 3:35:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, on the same point of order, I want to reinforce the comments that Conservatives have made.
I represent the highest percentage of Ukrainians of any of the federal ridings in the country, at 25%. We just all turned our attention to the remembrance of the victims of the Holodomor over the last weekend. Edmonton was the first place in the world to erect a monument to remember those victims and to never forget. President Zelenskyy mentioned that in his visit here.
I have also married into a family where the Ukrainian side has been settled longer than Alberta has been a province and, as members will know because of the geographical breakdown, where most members of Parliament on the Conservative side come from and represent. There is a very high percentage of Ukrainian Canadians on the Prairies and that is why Conservatives have such a strong record of standing up for the strong ties between Ukraine and Ukrainians and Canada and Canadians.
That is why I too, in response to your ruling today, Mr. Speaker, would join the call of my colleague from Yorkton—Melville for her request for clarification and an apology from government members, including the representatives of the Prime Minister, the House's leader's office and their whip, whatever role he has, who just will never miss a chance to stand up and characterize our role—
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- Nov/27/23 3:36:57 p.m.
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I thank the hon. member for raising this point. The point was very well made.
The hon. opposition House leader has a quotation that he would like to read into the record, and then we will move on to the rest of the business of the House.
The hon. opposition House leader.
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- Nov/27/23 3:37:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to raise these remarks to you, in light of your ruling. Essentially, what you have ruled is that the member for Miramichi—Grand Lake's statement about another political party, the NDP, as being sympathetic to, or supportive of, Hamas, an organization that is inflicting great cruelty on innocent human lives in the Middle East, rises to the level of being unparliamentary.
Today, in the chamber, the government House leader, in response to a question, asked, “Is it because there is a group of Conservative members of Parliament who are pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine...?”
In the situation with the war in Ukraine, we have a brutal regime led by Vladimir Putin illegally invading a sovereign country, committing atrocities and committing tragic murders of innocent human beings. I would put it to you, Mr. Speaker, that there is tremendous similarity between the parliamentary contexts of the member for Miramichi making a blanket statement about a political party supporting Hamas and the government House leader making an allegation about a political party supporting Vladimir Putin.
In light of your ruling, in which you said that the member for Miramichi now has to personally apologize and withdraw those remarks, we would ask you to look at these remarks and apply the same treatment to the government that you have now imposed on the opposition.
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- Nov/27/23 3:38:48 p.m.
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I thank the hon. House leader for reading that statement and I will take that into my consideration. I will come back to the House.
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