SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 257 - Nov/28/23

Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.)

Nov/28/23 10:26:13 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, one of the tactics that the Conservatives have been using in order to pressure senators into moving quickly on this bill was developing something that looked like a wanted poster that was distributed by the House leader of the official opposition, the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle. One senator has received a number of threatening phone calls and emails and has been very outspoken about that aggressive tactic used by the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle. I am wondering if the Leader of the Opposition can comment on whether he regrets his House leader's decision to employ those types of intimidating tactics.

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Hon. Pierre Poilievre

Nov/28/23 10:27:01 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the senator's contact information is widely available on websites. The member is simply trying to distract. I want to tell the member what intimidation looks like. Intimidation is when a single mother opens the fridge in the morning and there is nothing there. She looks over at the empty lunch bag that she needs to fill for her children and there is nothing to put in it. Intimidation is when, at the end of the month, she looks at the bills that have stacked up, then at her bank account and the former is way bigger than the latter. She does not know where she is going to live the next month. That is the real intimidation that the government has imposed on working-class people right across this country. If he wants to talk about threats, it is the threat to the quality of life of the people who do the work in this country that I am most worried about.

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Mr. Mario Simard (Jonquière, BQ)

Nov/28/23 10:27:55 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, what we are seeing again today is not only intimidation, as my colleague pointed out, but also disinformation. I have heard the leader of the official opposition tell the House that people wanted medical assistance in dying because they had nothing to eat. The leader of the official opposition has also said that the ballot issue in the next election will be the carbon tax even though he is well aware that tax does not apply in Quebec. I have one very simple question for the leader of the official opposition. Does he even believe himself when he says things like that?

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Hon. Pierre Poilievre

Nov/28/23 10:28:32 a.m.
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Yes, Madam Speaker, I do believe those things, and I know it. For starters, I am not the one who said that people are asking for medical assistance in dying because they are going hungry. That was the CEO of Food Banks Mississauga. My colleague can read her comments about how people went to the food bank to request medical assistance in dying. They did so not because they were sick, but because they were hungry. The Bloc Québécois members do not know this because they spend all their time travelling around Europe to talk about sovereignist movements over there. They could not care less about the people in their own ridings. Furthermore, the carbon tax does apply in Quebec. Food produced elsewhere in Canada is taxed when truck drivers transport it to Quebec, and there is another 17¢-per-litre carbon tax coming that will apply and that the Bloc Québécois wants to drastically increase. Only the Conservative Party wants to eliminate those taxes and bring prices down for Quebeckers.

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Mr. Alistair MacGregor (Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, NDP)

Nov/28/23 10:29:41 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am astounded at the sheer audacity of the Conservatives lecturing us on the Senate. After all, this is a party that has a history of appointing party bagmen and failed candidates. This is the party of Nigel Wright and Mike Duffy. This is the party that has 15 senators who still caucus with it every week, the only party, and this is a party that has their senators frequently block private members' bills in the past. Is the member for Carleton aware of his own hypocrisy and why does he think he can stand here and lecture us on the Senate?

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Hon. Pierre Poilievre

Nov/28/23 10:30:18 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will tell the member why I think I can lecture him. It is because the member betrayed his constituents. They elected him to be a member of the opposition and, instead, he works for the Prime Minister. Every time I go to Vancouver Island, people say their MP sold them out, sold them down the river. He voted to ban their hunting rifles while allowing violent gun criminals onto the street. He voted to hand out dangerous drugs that caused crime and chaos in tent cities all over Vancouver Island. He voted to quadruple the carbon tax in order to fund the extravagances of the Prime Minister. New Democrats, especially those from Vancouver Island, are working for the Prime Minister instead of working for the common people in their constituencies. It is not only me who should lecture the member. It is every single Canadian who should lecture New Democrats that their job is to work for the people, not for the Prime Minister.

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Mr. John Barlow (Foothills, CPC)

Nov/28/23 10:31:19 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-234

Madam Speaker, every single Canadian wants one thing in life, or one thing among several in life, which is to have nutritious, sustainable and affordable food produced right here in Canada. However, the Prime Minister's carbon tax coalition with the NDP is making that almost impossible for Canadian farmers and for Canadian consumers. The Parliamentary Budget Officer was very clear that Bill C-234, which we are trying to pass through the Senate, would save Canadian farmers close to $1 billion by 2030. These are not insignificant costs we are talking about that Canadian farmers are trying to absorb. We are seeing farmers struggle with higher input costs, higher interest rates and the paying of the carbon tax again and again. This is reality, but there are consequences to this reality, which seem to be lost on the Liberal government. There are 800,000 Ontarians who made close to six million visits to the food bank last year, which is an increase of almost 40%. This is the highest single-year increase ever recorded. They cannot afford to feed their families. The Liberals will say, every single question period, that all the Conservatives are going to do is cut. The cutting that is happening right now is Canadian families cutting meals for their kids and Canadian families cutting the heat down at night and putting on a sweater or a blanket because they cannot afford to heat their homes. These are the cuts happening every single day by Canadians, who are having to face extremely difficult choice of either feeding their family or heating their home. These are not choices that should have to be made in a country like Canada, but that is exactly what an ideological activist agenda by the Liberal-NDP government is forcing Canadians to do. We have a common-sense Conservative bill, Bill C-234, that would help reduce costs for farmers and make food more affordable for Canadians, but the Liberal government is going out of its way to bully senators to block Bill C-234. This is disrespectful to this House of Commons, which is elected by the people to represent our constituents. This House, by a very strong majority, and in fact by every single opposition party in this House, supported Bill C-234. This is because every opposition party in this House understands the importance of Canadian agriculture. Every member of the official opposition understands the importance of ensuring Canadians have affordable food to put on their table, produced right here in Canada by Canadian farmers, ranchers and producers. What we are seeing is the Liberals play games with the Senate, disrespecting, as I said, the decisions made by this House of Commons. My colleague from Wellington—Halton Hills has talked a great deal about the fact that this is a taxation bill that was passed by this House. The Senate does not have the jurisdiction or the authority to override a taxation bill decided upon by the House of Commons, and yet that is exactly what is happening. The Senate is playing games with the livelihoods of Canadian farmers. It is playing games with the lives of Canadian families who are struggling to put food on the table. Food should not be a luxury and it should certainly not be a plaything in the political gamesmanship of the Liberal government. I want to take a moment to talk about the real-life consequences this is having on Canadian farmers. I had a phone call from a dairy farmer two weeks ago who was basically in tears. She has come to the conclusion that she is going to lose her farm by Christmas to bankruptcy. She has a number of loans on her farm, as every single farmer does. They have lots of assets but a lot of debt. Her interest rate on her debt went from 1.9% to 7.2%. She can no longer afford the interest payments. On top of that, her carbon tax and fuel bills have doubled over the last year, making it impossible for her to maintain her operation. This is yet another lost farm for Canadian farmers. It is lost jobs, but also lost production and lost yields. A mushroom farmer from Ontario sent me a note. His carbon tax went up last year and he was going to be paying $173,000 in carbon taxes alone. When it goes up in 2030, his carbon tax bill will be $450,000 a year. How is that economically sustainable? I will tell us. It is not. The government talks about environmental sustainability all the time, but it never talks about economic viability, which is the most important element. One cannot be environmentally sustainable if one no longer exists. The note said, “It is difficult to see how our farm or any farm will remain in business if this continues. It will be unsustainable for our next generation to take on our farms, killing the food chain within Canada. This is not fair to farmers, families or the farming generations to come. It is not fair to Canadian consumers who want to eat food grown in Canada, which has a lower carbon footprint.” Another letter from a poultry farmer in Alberta states that, last year, he paid $120,000 in carbon taxes. This year, he is paying $180,000. By 2030, his carbon tax bills will be $480,000 a year. He said, “We are a chicken business and just simply can't afford the crippling carbon tax. If this is allowed to continue and go to $170 a tonne, we will need to shut down. The tax we pay is not going to do anything to eliminate carbon emissions. Our best hope is that we increase our selling price to the consumer to recover these costs, which is the last thing you or I want to see in these inflationary times.” We are seeing record-high food inflation in Canada as a result of farmers paying the carbon tax again and again. Not only do they pay it when they are heating and cooling their barns or drying their grain, but they are also paying it when they buy fertilizer, seed and chemicals. They are paying it again when they transport their grain or their cattle and when the rail line sends them their bill for moving their grain to port. There are very few other industries that I can think of that pay the carbon tax more then Canadian farmers, yet they are dedicated to the job that they do and always finding better ways and new innovations to reduce their emissions. However, that is not taken into consideration whatsoever with bills that are being blocked by the Liberals. A veteran retired from the military and moved to Saskatchewan. He said that, in 2020, his fuel bill was $7,000. In 2021, it was $9,000. In 2022, it is now $12,000. He said, “The weird part is that I drive my machinery the same amount and the same number of hours each year.” His land is the same size, which means taxes are making up the difference in costs. “I am only farming a half-section, and I am farming organically. If I didn't, I would be broke by now.” These are stories that we are getting in our office every single day. These are the real-life consequences of the carbon tax and the impact it is having on farmers. This is then increasing the cost of food, and Canadians are having to deal with that every single day. When one increases the cost and carbon tax on the farmers who are growing the food, the truckers who are moving the food, the processors who are manufacturing the food and the retailers who are selling the food, do we know what happens? Food becomes unaffordable for the Canadian consumer. That is why we are seeing one in five Canadians skipping meals and record-breaking numbers at food banks. This is not lost across Canada. We have letters from five premiers who are asking the Senate to pass this bill. Premiers across Canada understand the importance of this legislation. Saskatchewan, Alberta, Ontario, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick are begging the Senate to do its job, respect the will of the House of Commons and pass this legislation. However, we have the Prime Minister's environment minister threatening to resign if this bill is passed. He says there will be no more carbon tax carve-outs. This comes days after the Prime Minister already admitted that his carbon tax is unaffordable and had a carve-out for home heating oil. This is clearly common-sense legislation. It will make food more affordable. The most important thing is that Canadians want nutritious, sustainable, affordable food produced by Canadian farmers. Bill C-234 will make that a reality.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.)

Nov/28/23 10:41:25 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Conservatives say they are begging senators. That is not what they are doing. They are actually inciting violence toward senators. I have a news report with me, titled “Canadian Senator Flees Home Amid Safety Concerns Following ‘Wanted Poster’ Incident”. Some hon. members: Oh, oh! Mr. Mark Gerretsen: Can they at least stop heckling me while I talk about something so incredibly serious, Madam Speaker? It is outrageous. Some hon. members: Oh, oh! Mr. Mark Gerretsen: Now they are laughing, Madam Speaker.

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Mr. Scot Davidson

Nov/28/23 10:42:01 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The member for Kingston and the Islands is—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Nov/28/23 10:42:03 a.m.
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The hon. member is not in his seat, so he cannot raise a point of order. The hon. member for Chatham-Kent—Leamington.

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Chatham
Kent

Mr. Dave Epp

Nov/28/23 10:42:14 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I was not heckling the member across the way, so I do not know what he is talking about. Can he please explain?

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Nov/28/23 10:42:16 a.m.
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The hon. member is not the one he is accusing of heckling. The hon. deputy House leader.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen

Nov/28/23 10:42:19 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, here is what the article says: In a disturbing turn of events, Canadian Senator Bernadette Clement was reportedly forced to leave her home due to fears for her safety. The incident came about after a provocative post, akin to a ‘wanted poster,’ was shared online by former Conservative Party leader [the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle]. The post included Senator Clement’s picture and office phone number, triggering a deluge of abusive calls, including racist comments, and even a threatening phone call from an unidentified man. Does the member agree that this was a good tactic by the Conservative Party of Canada?

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Mr. John Barlow

Nov/28/23 10:42:53 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-234

Madam Speaker, I find it interesting that the member for Kingston and the Islands, of all people, is bringing this up. Members should take a look at his Twitter feed. It is the epitome of hypocrisy that the member is raising this. Of course, I do not agree with any member of the House or of the Senate being threatened. However, the Senate is receiving tens of thousands of phone calls and emails, through its information that is publicly available, from farmers and Canadians across this country asking senators to do the right thing and pass Bill C-234. What is happening in the Senate is that it is trying to bring in amendments that have been turned down in the House of Commons and at the committee. There is no alternative for Canadian farmers to power grain dryers and their barns. I agree that no one should be threatened or intimidated, but the Senate is being held accountable for the decisions it has made.

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Mr. Charlie Angus (Timmins—James Bay, NDP)

Nov/28/23 10:43:54 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is amazing to hear the hypocrisy of Conservatives talking about the Senate and democracy. They pick bums such as Larry Smith, who could not get elected, came in third, but got appointed to the Senate twice, as well as Leo Housakos, party bagman, who gets paid for life. What is even more astounding is that this party had the gall to stand in this House and vote against a trade deal with Ukraine. Meanwhile, we see Tucker Carlson's pro-Putin propaganda, Republican pro-Putin propaganda, the Danube Institute and Stephen Harper pro-Putin propaganda. The Conservatives claimed it was on carbon pricing, which Ukraine has had for years. The fact that the Conservatives would use carbon pricing to undermine Ukraine's war effort to support their right-wing hack friends in the United States is the height of hypocrisy for the Conservative Party.

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Mr. John Barlow

Nov/28/23 10:44:48 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am not sure if there was a question there other than a diatribe. The epitome of hypocrisy from the NDP member is that they are propping up— An hon. member: Oh, oh!

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Nov/28/23 10:45:03 a.m.
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I ask the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay to allow the member for Foothills to address the comment, as this is a period of questions and comments. The hon. member for Foothills.

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Mr. John Barlow

Nov/28/23 10:45:12 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member of the NDP-Liberal government, unfortunately, never made it into cabinet with this agreement. I find it shocking in itself when someone sells their soul and does not really get anything for it. The member supports a government that sold a turbine to Putin to help him move his gas and helped fund Putin's war machine. That is the epitome of hypocrisy.

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Mr. Mario Simard (Jonquière, BQ)

Nov/28/23 10:45:42 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think we are going to hear the two words “disinformation” and “bullying” over and over again today. We are going to hear those words a lot today. What happened to the two senators in recent days is exactly what the Conservative Party tried to pull with the member for Richmond—Arthabaska: to tell people to call his office and voice their discontent. They are trying to fire up the worst in people for political reasons. Does my colleague agree with me on that?

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Mr. John Barlow

Nov/28/23 10:46:20 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, no, I do not agree. We have encouraged Canadian farmers, who have done so by themselves. For example, the Agriculture Carbon Alliance, a group that represents hundreds of different agriculture stakeholders and commodity groups across the country, has encouraged its members to phone and call senators. When senators assume or accept that invitation to join the Senate, they accept the fact they are public figures. I know senators are upset by the fact that they are being held accountable for their votes. However, it is the democratic right of Canadians to hold elected officials and senators, who are not elected, accountable for the decisions they have made. That is exactly what is happening.

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