44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 28, 2023 10:00AM
- Nov/28/23 11:55:18 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I agree with my colleague. Then again, the best course of action would be to abolish the Senate altogether.
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Madam Speaker, listening to the Conservatives is confusing. It is hard to tell where they are going.
We talk about the carbon tax. We say that it does not apply in Quebec. They continue to say that it does. We saw that earlier. We say again that it does not apply, and they keep saying that yes, it does apply in Quebec. We repeat that it does not, and they say that it applies indirectly. We simply do not understand them anymore.
When they talk about Ukraine, they stand up in the House and say that they are for Ukraine because they voted against Bill C‑57, which implements the Canada‑Ukraine free trade agreement. They are so twisted that now the Ukrainians are wondering what is happening with the Conservatives and why they are against Ukraine. The Conservatives need to stand up and set the record straight.
My question is very simple. When someone has no substance to offer, the only weapon they have left is intimidation, correct?
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- Nov/28/23 11:56:13 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, as always, my House leader said it best. That is what I called the Carleton method.
That is it.
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Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today as we debate an opposition day motion the Conservatives decided to present to the House, which states:
That the House call on the unelected Senate to immediately pass Bill C-234, An Act to amend the Greenhouse Gas Pollution Pricing Act, to remove the carbon tax on the farmers that feed Canadians, as passed by the democratically elected House.
Essentially, today's debate is on a motion to try to get a Conservative private member's bill through the Senate. I am amazed because today Conservatives are acting with outrage that the Senate is not moving quickly enough. It is as if they have not done far worse to move bills slowly in the past.
The cognitive dissonance and the absence of any historical grounding in today's debate is absolutely shocking. When thinking of my remarks for today's speech, two words came to mind: irony and hypocrisy. At best, we could be talking about the irony of this moment, but I think this is just plain and simple hypocrisy because I believe Conservatives are self-aware, and they know exactly about the entirety of their sordid history with the Senate.
Irony is about highlighting the human relationship with reality. It teases out the inconsistencies that reside in all of us, but this is far more than inconsistency. Hypocrisy is simple. It is about contradicting ourselves but with a more forceful and a more deliberate vein. Quite simply, hypocrisy is the pretense of consistency to hide one's inconsistency. Today's motion, if we look at the history of Conservatives' relationships with senators, is definitely one of inconsistency.
Again, I am absolutely flabbergasted at the sheer audacity of the Conservative Party of Canada to come to the House today to lecture members of Parliament and the Canadian public on the Senate. I will get into that in far greater detail in my remarks today.
I want to start with Bill C-234. It is important to acknowledge that the bill was duly passed by a vote of 176 to 146 in the House of Commons earlier this year. It is also equally important to note that the bill would not have passed the House if it had not been for the support of all opposition parties. They include the Green Party, the Bloc Québécois and the NDP. There were also three Liberals who lent their support to the bill. The electoral math in this place shows that those kinds of numbers are needed for any bill. I want to highlight that because often, when I hear speeches by the Conservatives, they tend to conveniently leave out that little fact.
It is also important to note in today's debate that we are not here to relitigate Bill C-234. That was done by the House. The bill went through second reading and then to the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, of which I have been a proud member for the last six years. I was present for those meetings. I listened to the witnesses. I participated in the clause-by-clause review of the bill, the amendments to it, the reporting of it back to the House and its third reading. The House voiced its opinion on the matter. A clear majority of MPs decided to pass it, and we do not need to spend time talking about what was done.
At the time, I highlighted my support for Bill C-234 because I thought the provisions in it were consistent with the act it is trying to amend, namely the Greenhouse Gas Pollution Pricing Act, which was passed by a majority Liberal government in 2018. If members read the parent act carefully, they will see exemptions listed in the act for qualifying farm fuels, farm machinery and farming activities. After careful consideration of the bill and after listening to the many farm groups that appeared before our committee, I agree with them. There are no commercially viable alternatives to propane and natural gas for certain farm activities. I thought this amendment was quite in line with the original document the Liberal drafters put together.
We did our due diligence on this bill. I do not think we need to spend much time dwelling on Bill C-234. I was quite happy with the amendments made to Bill C-234 at the committee stage. Its focus was narrowed so there is more clarity on what it would specifically be applied to. There was also a sunset clause introduced to signal to industry that there is a narrow window of time to start developing commercially viable alternatives. I know, from witness testimony, those efforts are well under way. It is a price signal sending a signal to the market that it needs to step up its game.
I have had the honour of spending, as I mentioned, six years on the agriculture committee. One thing I heard consistently from our farmers is that they are on the front lines of climate change. They are the ones dealing with shifting weather patterns caused by fossil fuel driven climate change. We had entire crops fail, whether from a drought or a flood. There was a shortage of feed, like we had in many parts of British Columbia, due to water sources drying up. That is now the norm in many parts of western Canada, and it is only going to get worse in the years ahead. Anyone with a simple knowledge of scientific facts can see this situation is going to get worse.
When I hear my Conservative colleagues talk about support for farmers, I try to put that in conjunction with their support for the oil and gas industry, or their lack of effort in going after the intense corporate profits of the oil and gas sector, which are fuelling the planet's burning right now. There is a dichotomy where my Conservative friends like to say they stand on the farmers' side, but meanwhile, farmers tell us the greatest threat to their livelihood is climate change. I do not see any viable policy alternatives to address that fact.
Let us get to the heart of the matter today: the Senate. Canadians have legitimate questions about the Senate. In Canada's Parliament, we have a bicameral system. We have the lower house, which is the elected House of Commons, and we also have an appointed Senate. If someone is one of the lucky few who are selected for a senator's position, then one has a locked-in job until age 75. One never has to face the electorate. One gets to enjoy all the trappings that office has, with none of the accountability.
I, like every member of Parliament in this place, have to reapply for my job every certain number of years. I have to be accountable for the votes I make, for the speeches I make and for the policy positions I take because that is the heart of democracy. I am not here just by myself. I am here representing the entire riding of Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, and those are the people I report to. I have reported to them through three federal elections. Senators do not have to do that.
Only a handful of democracies around the world have an appointed upper chamber. I think many Canadians listening to today's debate would agree with me that in a modern, functional, 21st century democracy, an appointed upper house, with all the nominal powers of the lower house, has no room in this kind of system. The system we have has been begging for reform for many years. The NDP's position on the Senate is quite well known. We have certainly called for its abolishment. We note there are many countries around the world that do quite well with a single chamber of elected representatives.
Other places have indirect elections or have direct elections for their senators. Whatever system it is, at least those senators are accountable to the people they serve, unlike our upper body. This is an important context for today's debate. Ultimately, what we are doing here in the lower house is complaining about the appointed upper chamber thwarting the democratic will of the House of Commons. This is a moment in time, but it has to be placed in the context of history because this is not the first time it has happened.
I also want to underline that I have a good working relationship with a handful of senators, and many serve on the agriculture committee. I have had the pleasure of getting to know them and their work, and I do not question their commitment to their line of work. My comments today are based solely on the Senate as an institution and on the inherent contradictions it has in a 21st century democracy.
Let us go, as I mentioned in my earlier remarks, to the Conservative hypocrisy and the Senate. I agree with the Conservatives that they have the right idea in today's motion in calling on the Senate to quit delaying the passage of a bill, in this case Bill C-234. We in the NDP have called on the Senate to do this many times over our history, so this is well-trodden ground for us. I would like to welcome my Conservative friends to the club. They may not be used to this, but trust me, as New Democrats we have a long history of calling for this.
For the Conservatives to bring in today's motion, given their history, is quite something. I really want to underline this for Canadians who are watching today's debate. It is a fact in this place that both the Conservatives and the Liberals have a sordid history with the Senate. They have both been guilty of not only appointing failed candidates, loyal donors and party operatives, but using—
An hon. member: Bagmen.
Mr. Alistair MacGregor: Mr. Speaker, my colleague used the term “bagmen” and that is absolutely a legitimate term.
They have used this appointed and unelected body to block bills from the democratically elected House. One only needs to look at our parliamentary history to see this is not a one-off situation. It has happened many times. To watch Conservatives and Liberals point fingers at each other goes to show that ultimately when it comes to this issue, these two parties are but different sides of the same coin.
With respect to the current Conservative Party, let us take a little walk down history lane. This is the party of Mike Duffy and Nigel Wright. The leader of the Conservative Party, the member for Carleton, stands in this place and gives us a lecture on the Senate, when he is the person who, when in government and a representative of former prime minister Stephen Harper, had to day in and day out defend chief of staff Nigel Wright, who gave a $90,000 cheque to Mike Duffy because of living expenses. That is what the member for Carleton had to stand up in this place and do time and time again.
Mr. Gord Johns: Selective amnesia.
Mr. Alistair MacGregor: Mr. Speaker, we do have selective amnesia in this place. I thank the member for Courtenay—Alberni for referencing that, because we lose sight of our history in this place.
The member for Carleton has been an MP for 19 very long years. I know the Conservatives have spent millions of dollars on burnishing up his image, but he has a long history in this House of Commons. If we do some digging, there are a lot of comments, a lot of questions and a lot of speeches from the member for Carleton that will give truth to who he really is.
However, it gets better, because the Conservatives have stood in this place accusing Liberals of bullying senators and imposing their will, when the Conservative Party is the only party in this House that still has 15 senators at caucus every Wednesday. Fifteen Conservative senators join their MP counterparts for every Wednesday meeting, and they get their marching orders from the member for Carleton on how to play games in the Senate. This has been the case for several Parliaments and we have seen it in the past.
Conservative senators have taken their marching orders from former prime minister Harper and have done the very thing that Conservatives are mad about today with Bill C-234. Senators took their marching orders from the Conservative Party in the House of Commons and used their procedural shenanigans in the red chamber to block multiple bills on multiple occasions that were passed by the democratic House. Again, it is rank hypocrisy from the Conservatives.
I will outline a few notable examples.
Our former beloved leader Jack Layton, several Parliaments ago, had a bill that was passed by the House called the climate change accountability act. My God, how things would be different now if we had actually paid attention back then and passed that law. However, right now in 2023, we are dealing with the consequences of years of inaction from both Liberal and Conservative governments. That bill was held up. It died in the Senate because of procedural shenanigans instigated by Conservative senators.
We have also had other cases. Former NDP member of Parliament Paul Dewar, who represented Ottawa Centre, introduced Bill C-393. It was a bill to permit the shipment and provision of generic drugs to Africa, a worthy cause, but it died in the Senate because of Conservative senator procedural shenanigans.
Then of course, in the 42nd Parliament, there was the bill that brought us to where we are today. It was the bill introduced to fully implement the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, a groundbreaking piece of legislation, Bill C-262. It was ahead of its time, ahead of where the puck was going, and it directly led to the government introducing its own legislation in the subsequent Parliament to make sure Canada's federal laws were in harmony with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. That bill, which was duly passed by the House of Commons in the 42nd Parliament, was held up because of procedural shenanigans and games by Conservative senators at the request of their leader.
This is the amazing thing about the Senate. We cannot do that here in the House. With the rules there, one senator can throw in a wrench and jam up the entire works for days on end, and this tactic is used again and again. Conservative senators, under orders from their leader, have been doing precisely the same thing that Conservatives are mad about today when it comes to their own legislation.
These are the things we have to highlight. They are incredibly important because we have short memories in this place.
I am coming down to my final three minutes, and I very much look forward to the questions that will come. However, it does us well to understand that, first of all, Bill C-234 would not have passed in this place if it were not for all opposition parties working together to pass it because they saw merit in the bill. That is number one. Number two, we fundamentally agree with the principle that the Senate, as an unelected body, needs to respect the will of the House. The only party that has been consistent on that position through several parliaments is the NDP. We are the only party that comes out squeaky clean in a debate about the Senate, and all members would do well to acknowledge that fact.
Consistent with our third reading vote on Bill C-234, we will be voting in favour of today's motion, because that is consistent with the approach we have always taken. Had there been motions on our own private members' bills from several previous parliaments, we would have done the same thing. It is important to remind senators that we are the ones who have to face the electorate. We are the ones conveying the wishes of the people of Canada. Every seat in this place represents a distinct geographic area of Canada. We are the ones bringing the voice of the people here, and senators need to be reminded of that fact.
I will end by again highlighting the hypocrisy. I like serving with many of my Conservative colleagues, but as a party, we cannot take any moral lessons from them on the Senate given their history with appointing failed candidates, with party bagmen and with the instructions they give to their 15 caucus members who are members of the Senate. With the entire history they have of blocking bills, Canadians who are listening to today's debate need to understand that the last place we would ever go for a moral lesson on the problems with the Senate is the Conservative Party of Canada. I just want to make that very clear.
I will end my remarks there. I thank everyone for taking the time to listen, and I look forward to any questions or comments.
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- Nov/28/23 12:16:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his impassioned speech, but there is something I disagree with. Conservatives have been standing up for farmers non-stop. I come from a very heavy grain area where farmers right now are telling me that their corn is coming in at 30% moisture or 28% moisture, and they need to get their corn dried down to 13% or 15%. Well, guess what. They have to use natural gas or propane to dry the grain because there is no other commercially viable option to dry grain in such huge amounts.
In northern Ontario, there are grain farms of 15,000 acres and 20,000 acres, much like in the Prairies. There are senators in the Senate stalling this legislation who are from northern Ontario and who should know that the cost for these farmers to dry their grain is exorbitant.
I am wondering if my colleague could comment on why the senators from northern Ontario should not be held accountable by the constituents they are supposed to represent and why Canadians should not be able to call their senators to voice their concerns.
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- Nov/28/23 12:17:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, those are all good points. That is why I voted for the bill. We understood very clearly from committee hearings on this bill that there are no commercially viable alternatives. The problems with drying grain and with getting appropriate levels of feed because of future droughts, as I said in my speech, are going to multiply because this is the new reality that our farmers are facing.
It is not just Conservatives who support farmers. One of the reasons the agriculture committee gets along so well is that all parties around the table understand that they have farmers as constituents. I think it is the only committee of the House of Commons that regularly works and makes decisions by consensus.
I would argue with one point, though. Senators do not have constituents. We have constituents. I acknowledge that it is a problem; I do not agree that the Senate should be holding up a bill. However, I gave countless examples of where Conservative senators did the exact same thing for other bills. That is the hypocrisy people need to understand when it comes to the Conservative Party.
Senators should not be doing this. They should be listening to the democratic will of the House. I simply wish the Conservatives would have a consistent position no matter what bill is being discussed in the Senate.
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- Nov/28/23 12:18:38 p.m.
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I am wondering why we cannot use the air in here to dry grain.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member for Winnipeg North.
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- Nov/28/23 12:18:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is because there are not enough Conservative speakers standing to breathe the hot air.
At the end of the day, this is an interesting bill, but I suggest that the member give some thought to the bail reform bill. If the member can recall, sometime in June, the Conservative leader said there was really important stuff we needed to pass and that we should come back in session to get that particular bill passed. Then, when we came back in session in September, we passed the bill unanimously through the whole process. Today, it is being held up and still has not passed because of the Conservative Party.
Here we have the Conservatives now saying we should pass this bill. They seem to have forgotten this other important piece of legislation, which has a wide spectrum of support from different stakeholders. Every member of the chamber is supportive of it. I wonder if the member sees any irony there. Why are they being very selective about raising this issue on the floor? Why not the bail bill?
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- Nov/28/23 12:19:57 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is a great question. The Conservatives have suddenly taken it upon themselves to have a greater interest in the beautiful Vancouver Island area, but I would remind them that in my riding of Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, every single municipality I represent wrote to me asking that that bill get passed quickly. I am sure it is the same up and down Vancouver Island and in many communities right across Canada.
Again, I think it goes to the theme of hypocrisy. There is a selective memory in this place about how different parties have used the Senate to further their own ends or block an opposing party's piece of legislation.
I would agree with my colleague from across the way, the member for Winnipeg North, that that is an important bill. I was proud to support it. I was proud to see how we all came together, because the municipalities in Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, mayors and councils from every single town, wrote to me urging me to pass that piece of legislation quickly. I am glad I was able to report back as their member of Parliament, something that senators do not have to do, that the House did its job. I would like to see the Senate recognize and respect that fact.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Cowichan—Malahat—Langford for his speech. I appreciated almost all of it, except the part where he said the NDP was the only party that has supported the abolition of the Senate. I would like to remind him that this is also the position of the Bloc Québécois.
On this matter, our decisions are predictable. This allows the people who vote for us to know why they vote for us and to anticipate the decisions we will make in the House. I find it a bit sad that the Conservatives' decisions depend on what will serve their ends in the moment.
Consider Bill C-234, but also Bill C-282, which was passed by the House to protect supply management. The Conservatives are doing exactly what they are now scolding senators for doing, namely slowing down the passage of a bill. The only thing the Conservatives are consistent about is that if they can insert the words “carbon tax” somewhere, they will use it as an excuse to vote against something. This makes for some particularly bizarre decisions, like their decision to vote against the bill to implement the free trade agreement with Ukraine.
I would like to hear from my colleague as to whether he thinks this lax approach, this cherry picking, is disappointing for the public, because it does not give voters a sense of where the Conservative Party is generally headed.
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Mr. Speaker, allow me to withdraw the comment and apologize. I want to recognize that the Bloc absolutely is in line with the NDP on abolishing the upper chamber.
The member is right. In addition to Bill C-234, there is a very important bill that we were proud to support, Bill C-282. There are a lot of supply-managed farmers in my riding who personally met with me. I met with many of their industry groups.
We were proud to support that piece of legislation, because we simply cannot trust Liberal and Conservative governments to honour the spirit of supply management. We agreed with the Bloc Québécois in putting that in legislation so that we can prevent future governments from negotiating away our supply-managed industries.
I want to give another shout-out. The member for York—Simcoe has Bill C-280 in the Senate. I hope that the Senate will respect the will of this House, because that is another important bill dealing with the Canadian Produce Marketing Association and the fresh fruit and vegetable sector.
Again, strong agricultural bills are coming from the House of Commons. I think one thing that Canadians deserve from us is for us to have consistency in our positions. If we look at the Conservative history at the Senate, it has been anything but consistent.
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- Nov/28/23 12:24:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the issue of Conservative hypocrisy in the Senate is one of the reasons the Canadian people threw Brian Mulroney out. They gave him the bum's rush after he imposed eight senators to force through the most hated tax of all time, the GST. Canadians were stuck paying for these dudes until they were 75. They cannot be fired. The price of a Conservative sock puppet is enormous.
Stephen Harper came in and said he was going to reform the Senate. What did he do?
It is just one long list of pals and cronies. Let us talk about Larry Smith. Larry Smith gets appointed to the Senate, and he is outraged when he finds out how much money he is going to make. He says it is “a dramatic, catastrophic pay cut” that he had to serve the Canadian people. This is how out of touch the guy is. He then runs for office. Needless to say, the Canadian people want nothing to do with Larry Smith, so he comes in third. This man is unfit for public service. Stephen Harper puts him back in, a loyal sock puppet, and we are stuck with this guy until he is 75. He cannot be fired. He does not have to show up for work. All he has to do is be loyal to the Conservative Party.
When I see the member who is living in Stornoway, a 19-room mansion, talk about the common people and the Senate, I am amazed. Does he not meet with them every week and know exactly how entitled and how out of touch and what cronies of the Conservative Party they are?
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- Nov/28/23 12:25:31 p.m.
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Before I move on, I just need to remind members of Standing Order 18. It says:
No member shall...use offensive words against either House, or against any member thereof.
I think the hon. member comes pretty close to impugning other members in the other house. I would just remind folks to be judicious in their referral to hon. members of all our houses that represent Canadians.
The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.
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- Nov/28/23 12:26:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that, and in that I do not actually deal with the unelected Senate on a regular basis, is it “crony” or “pal”? Is there a particular term that I should be aware of?
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- Nov/28/23 12:26:14 p.m.
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We'll move on to the next speech.
The hon. member for Huron—Bruce.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time today with the member for Hastings—Lennox and Addington.
With regard to Bill C-234, I would like to recognize a couple of people, the first being the member for Brandon—Souris. Before he was elected, he worked in the private sector. He was one of the people who gave the idea for the beginnings of this bill in the last Parliament to the member for Northumberland—Peterborough South, which was Bill C-206, which, at that time, talked about taking the carbon tax off the drying of grains.
With Bill C-234, we look to, as we always do in life or in legislation, trying to make it better. We included the heating of livestock barns and buildings used to grow food, such as mushrooms that we see at grocery stores.
I wanted to recognize those individuals, as well as the Conservative agriculture critic. He has done a great job and was a big advocate after the last election to include this.
Like I said, these are the basics of the bill. At a time when farmers are seeing increased costs due to inflation everywhere they look, this bill is very timely. Over the last two years, farmers have seen a tremendous increase in the cost of purchasing farm machinery, such as tractors. Some of the costs have skyrocketed, including the cost of carrying debt, such as mortgages on farms. For a lot of farmers, a portion of it is fixed and a portion of it is variable. They may also carry operating lines of credit, maybe for inputs or livestock, whatever it may be at the time. All these things have become more expensive, in large part, due to government spending. The amount of debt, inflation and printing money have caused this. Farmers have borne a terrible amount of the brunt on this.
In addition to that, a couple of years ago, we will remember how much the cost of fertilizer increased for farmers, even when some farmers had prepaid. In the previous fiscal year, farmers had prepaid, only to find out they had to pay more when it came time to put the fertilizer on their land. They have had some really challenging times, but they are still committed to being farmers and they are still committed to feeding Canadians. Canadian farmers, as we know, help feed the world many times over.
That is why this bill happens to be the right bill at the right time. It has been almost two years since I introduced this bill in the House of Commons. It will, hopefully, be voted on tonight or in the near future.
Farmers need a break. We have heard in question period, statements and speeches what farmers are facing with the carbon tax. The other thing that is frightening to farmers is they know this is not the end of it. They know that on April 1 every year, the carbon tax will go up until 2030, to the point where, in many cases, the profit margin will no longer be there at all for small farmers. They will have to make a decision whether to carry on or what to do.
That is why this bill is so timely and it is so important for the Senate to make a decision on it. I am open to whatever way the Senate votes. If it votes it up or down, I can live with either result, but what I find unfortunate is that there are some games being played. I do not mind if a committee takes the time to study it, which it did. I appeared at committee and it was a great honour. However, when amendments are put forward after virtually the same amendments were voted on at report stage and defeated, it does resemble a bit of a game, which is unfortunate.
The people having the games played on them are Canadian farmers. It is not me or the members of Parliament in this House of Commons who suffer. It is Canadian farmers who suffer.
There is another thing that really hits home. I hear it every weekend when I am at community events at home. I see the farmers in my area, when I drive up and down the county roads. They are still taking their corn off. The corn that is being taken off on November 28 needs to be dried. That is the reality. That uses propane and natural gas. Had the Senate dealt with this bill in the spring, farmers drying their crops today would not be paying the carbon tax. Farmers heating their broiler barns, their turkey barns, their layer barns and their hog barns would not be paying the carbon tax.
People have come up to me, and I imagine they are of all political stripes, and they cannot believe that this bill has not been passed. They understand. As many members have talked about today, this is not the only place it has touched the price of food. It is passed along many times. One pork farmer in my riding told me that the fuel surcharge, just the surcharge, for him to ship his 20,000 hogs a year to the processing plant, was $20,000.
In the big scheme of a significant operation, it is not going to put the fellow out of business, but it is $20,000. That is $20,000 he could have put into his operation. That is $20,000 he could have put on his line of credit or paid down his debt.
There is a pork farmer in my riding whose carbon tax bill in the month of March 2023 was $3,500. The member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands, who sits right beside me, talked about one yesterday. It was $1,500 a month. The leader of the Conservative Party has a mushroom grower in his riding who pays $10,000, $11,000, $12,000 a month. Farmers cannot afford this any longer. They need Canadian lawmakers, senators and members of the House of Commons to make a decision and move forward on this.
The other key point is that when it becomes more cost-effective, cheaper, for grocery stores and retailers to buy food, vegetables or whatever, from Mexico, California or Colorado, put it in a transport truck and ship it for five days to Ontario, where I live, there is something wrong with the cost structure in Canada and in my province of Ontario. Carbon tax is one of them.
We need to address this. It should not be political. One of the most important things a country can do, in addition to defending its citizens, is be able to feed its citizens, to have enough adequate food and nutrition to feed its citizens. We have had a lot of discussion about food banks, but the very idea of having a sustainable food production system, a full cycle in our country is one of the most important things.
In the last eight years, we have seen an erosion in food sovereignty in Canada. A number of processing plants have closed because of cost and mismanagement at the government level on trade. There are all sorts of issues on that. It is very important.
The last thing I will say is that we can drive up and down the rural roads and see people we have known pretty much our entire lives, people who have worked hard around the clock. They can be seen out at 11 o'clock at night combining their corn, harvesting their corn. We know they are doing it for Canadians. They like to make a little money, but it is a passion, a livelihood. It is their life.
We have to make sure that we get this right. We have to make sure that we take the carbon tax off and make it affordable for the consumer, make it right for the environment and make it right for the farmer.
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- Nov/28/23 12:36:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we all know that the price on pollution gets such a reaction from the Conservative Party that its members will actually vote against, as they have, the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement, all because of that red herring of an excuse.
When it comes to the Senate, again, there is legislation that is dealing with bail reform. The Conservative Party of Canada itself, in August, said that we should come back in session so we could pass the bail reform bill. The provinces and stakeholders were saying that it was important that we pass it. Why has it not been passed? All members of the House passed it unanimously, but the Conservative senators are now actually proposing amendments to it. They are preventing the bail reform bill from passing. There is no word now from the Conservative Party in regard to that important legislation; it completely evaporated, and why? It is because the Conservative Party is so fixated on the price on pollution that it will do anything on the issue. It is completely high-risk as a political entity.
My question is this: When the Conservative caucus meets tomorrow, and the Conservative senators meet with the Conservative MPs, will they ask what the holdup is with the bail reform bill?
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- Nov/28/23 12:37:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, first of all, with respect to trade, the former ag minister blew it on the South Korean import rule concerning beef cattle over 30 months of age. The current finance minister pretty well blew it on the European free trade agreement; the Stephen Harper government had it to the one-yard line, and she just about fumbled it into the end zone.
With respect to the environment, farmers get no credit for ethically managed woodlots and no credit for planting fall cover crops. They get no credit from the government for crop rotations, for environmental farm plants or for nutrient management plans. They do all that, and the Liberal government gives them zero credit. That is even further frustrating to farmers. They are paying all of this carbon tax and treating their farm like their child, beautifully, but they get no credit, and that is a real shame.
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- Nov/28/23 12:38:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as my colleague from Cowichan—Malahat—Langford mentioned, the debate has been had in the House, and all opposition parties voted in favour of the bill. I am sure the member has heard the members for Timmins—James Bay and Cowichan—Malahat—Langford about the hypocrisy with respect to the bill, because there are ample examples of Conservatives filibustering in the Senate; they are guilty of the same crime.
However, my question is related to tactics. There was a member of the Senate who had to vacate her house as a result of the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle's putting up a wanted posted for her. We know that violence against all members of Parliament is very common, and I am wondering whether my colleague agrees with the political tactics that have been employed by Conservatives to virtue signal to alt-right members who live in Canada to harass elected officials and now senators. Does he agree with those kinds of tactics?
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- Nov/28/23 12:39:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have never heard the member get up and say anything about somebody like Denise Batters. I have never heard her have any concern for some of the stuff that Senator Denise Batters goes through. With respect to the particular senator that the member spoke about, I really do not know what the whole deal is with what happened, to be honest; I have other things to think about. However, I can say that posting somebody's office phone number, which is on the website anyway, and their email—
Ms. Leah Gazan: In a wanted poster.
Mr. Ben Lobb: Mr. Speaker, they are just saying to call her up and let her know, and she had no problem playing games. As far as her safety goes, I do not know about that, and the member who asked the question does not know either, because I am sure she never talked to her. We just hope that everybody is safe when in politics, and I would leave it at that. Our focus is that we want the bill to be addressed in the Senate. We have never asked for any special favours on the bill; we just want the vote to occur.
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