44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 28, 2023 10:00AM
- Nov/28/23 4:03:13 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the best way to know when one is losing a debate is when one starts flailing with ridiculous accusations. The fact of the matter is that nobody would ever support harassment or threats toward any elected or unelected member of Parliament.
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- Nov/28/23 4:03:30 p.m.
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Order. I would remind the deputy government House leader that he does not have the floor and he should wait for questions and comments if he wishes to contribute to the conversation.
The hon. member for Portage—Lisgar.
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- Nov/28/23 4:03:30 p.m.
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Unless it's during your election. Then it's cool.
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- Nov/28/23 4:03:30 p.m.
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The fact that senators are, for the first time, facing thousands of letters and—
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- Nov/28/23 4:03:45 p.m.
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As I was saying, Madam Speaker, just because some people are not accountable to anybody does not mean they should not expect, in this public life, to receive phone calls and letters. If they are, maybe they should have a second thought about what they are doing and why nobody is calling them to say they are doing a good job and people support them. However, thousands of people are calling and saying to pass this bill, get out of the way and stop playing politics. That is what the Senate needs to do and that is why we need to pass this motion.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my Conservative colleague for her comments today.
I admit that the members of the Bloc Québécois have mixed feelings. On the one hand, we are tempted to agree with what the Conservatives are saying about the Senate today, but on the other, we have a duty to defend the process that is under way.
I am fascinated to see that the Conservatives take a different view of the Senate's work depending on whether or not they agree with the bill it is studying. I remember when senators took the time they needed, and then some, before passing Bill C-11. We never heard anything from the Conservatives about how senators are unelected and had no business delaying a bill that way.
Today, I fail to understand the Conservatives' attempt to literally gag the Senate. We have mixed feelings about that.
I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts about this. What is the problem? Bill C-234 is at third reading in the Senate. That is how things are usually done. Now, the Conservatives are acting almost like Bloc members, denouncing these unelected members of the Senate who are making decisions that should be made by the House of Commons.
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Madam Speaker, it is called the chamber of sober second thought, but right now that chamber seems to be drunk on power. When it finds problematic elements in bills like Bill C-11, that is one thing, but I would implore all of my colleagues to consider if this was their private member's bill. Let us say it passed through the democratically elected House of Commons, only to have, for the second time, a motion that senators decided was so important, despite having no involvement with the legislation, that they needed to amend the bill to make sure it cannot be renewed through an OIC and it has to go through a long bureaucratic process again. If that is what the senator felt so compelled to do, I feel sorry for her, because this House passed the bill and the Senate needs to pass it too.
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- Nov/28/23 4:06:21 p.m.
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Karma is tough, Madam Speaker. During the Harper regime, Conservatives appointed members to the Senate whose only qualifications were that they were defeated Conservative candidates. They did not delay bills; they killed them. They killed Jack Layton's climate accountability act. They killed bill after bill. Now the Conservatives are concerned about the Senate. It is too rich to even contemplate.
We spend $100 million every year for the unelected, undemocratic and, under the Conservatives, under-investigation Senate. Would the member agree with me that it is time to abolish the Senate now and forever?
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- Nov/28/23 4:07:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we could abolish the current Liberal government in this chamber. That would be the best thing we could do.
I have not thought that much about the Senate in any serious way, but the actions of these senators at the behest of the Prime Minister on the backs of Canadian farmers and Canadians who are paying higher prices for this political gamesmanship is what bothers me and bothers my constituents. I will happily fight against it every step of the way.
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Madam Speaker, it is always an honour to be able to rise in the people's House and share concerns and many reflections that we hear from back home.
Today, I rise in the House to speak to our motion regarding Bill C-234 and its intention to remove the carbon tax from farm fuels, and to urge the government to take the pressure off its appointed senators to keep holding up this bill.
Canadians are frustrated. They want relief, and they need relief fast. This is one of the steps that could be taken that would get immediate relief to those who literally keep our land and grow our food. The farmers are asking for this. Those who represent farming associations and farmers across the country are asking and demanding that this be passed speedily. We have had no fewer than five premiers who are calling upon the government to get this passed quickly. A majority in this House passed the bill already, and now it is being held up in the Senate through stall-and-delay tactics. That is unacceptable. The people have spoken through their elected representatives, and they want this legislation to be enacted. It is time to act. That is what this motion is all about.
When preparing my remarks, I was drawn to a famous quote that I have been reflecting upon. Perhaps it would be something all in this House could reflect upon. It was once famously said, “It's not about you. It's about things that are far more important than you and whether someone is mad at you has nothing to do with it if you're right. You can be in the middle of a hurricane or it can be on a calm day. North is still north. You can be in a thunderstorm. North is still north. You can be on calm waters, but north is still north. People can yell at you. North is still north. It doesn't change fundamental things, and in this business, right is still right, even if you stand by yourself.”
I have been reflecting on that. If there were ever a time that those who represent Canadians should do what is right and listen to the compass and recognize that north is still north, it is in times like these, when we are facing an affordability crisis. There are more people in line for food banks than ever in modern history. The cost of housing is through the roof. The cost of fuel is through the roof. Canadians from coast to coast are wondering how they are going to make it to their next paycheque and keep the bills paid. Some Canadians are choosing between whether they can heat their homes or get enough groceries to provide for their families for another week.
These are challenging times. These times are demanding serious leadership and action by a government that is hearing the demands of those who sent us here. For far too long, their voices have been ignored and they feel like they are absolutely being dismissed.
Farmers literally keep the land that we live on and grow our food. When they have a serious concern and their input costs are soaring and they are having a hard time keeping up, they keep doing what they love to do, in some cases for generations within their family. When they are asking for relief and we just ignore them or we stall it or hold back that relief, that is shameful and it is time we respond.
I cannot help but think of the old story of a naval vessel that was out on the sea. A call came to the vessel from an individual who said to adjust course 15°. The very large vessel's captain responded with absolute disdain and said he was captain so-and-so of U.S. naval vessel Montana, and for the other vessel to adjust course 15°. The other gentleman responded, “No, sir. You adjust 15°.” It goes back and forth. Then, in absolute exasperation, the captain of the vessel said, “I have the USS Montana under my command. We have six cruisers and we have destroyers. You adjust your course 15°.” The humble gentleman responded, “This is the lighthouse. You adjust course 15°, or you are headed for a shipwreck.” Finally, the arrogant captain of the vessel thanked him and adjusted his course.
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- Nov/28/23 4:14:13 p.m.
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The moral of the story is that there is a clarion call going out from the proverbial lighthouse of Canada's farms basically saying that it is time the captain of the vessel called the Government of Canada adjust course.
I think it would behoove everyone in this House to listen to those who are most affected by the policies that have been enacted by the government of late. When a motion has gone through the House and a bill has been passed by a majority of members in this House who represent the people, it should not be held up in the unelected Senate for various reasons. It is time it is passed and relief is given to Canadians.
We are hearing that cry. Over 70% of Canadians want this tax cancelled. I talked to a potato farmer today in my region and was going over some of this with him. He told me very clearly that since the enactment of the carbon tax, the freight charges on his potatoes per truckload have gone up from $1,200 to $1,800 Canadian. That is a 30% increase as a result of the carbon tax being implemented. It is directly affecting his freight charges. He said farmers need relief and they need it fast, because that 30% augmentation is going directly onto the consumers of groceries from coast to coast to coast.
The government needs to respond to what farmers are saying. They need relief and they need it now. This bill would provide some much-needed relief. It would help with the affordability challenges of Canadians and the food production challenges. It is time we listened to them.
I heard from a young man from a place called Hartfield. He said that farmers need relief and they need it fast. He cannot keep making ends meet. The cost of living has gone up so high, grocery costs are up and the cost of operations is up. Young Ivan is right. He needs relief.
Other business owners from across New Brunswick and across Canada need relief and need it fast. They do not need more empty promises. They do not need delay tactics. They do not need a captain of the vessel who is ignoring what is coming clearly from the lighthouse on shore. We need to adjust course quickly or we are going to hit the rocks economically. Getting this bill implemented is part of that. I hope the government will listen to us, put into action what has already been passed in this House and get the Senate to do the same.
I find that our greatest, most sacred responsibility is to listen to those who sent us here. They have given us a clarion call. It is a sacred responsibility. They are asking us to hear what they are saying, to implement it, and to stop ignoring and dismissing them. They may not have fancy degrees or titles. They may not occupy the spaces of the upper echelons of the intelligentsia class, but every day they carry a bucket to work. Every day they go out to their fields. Every day they work in their shops to employ people.
I believe it is time to do what is right by them and implement the changes they are demanding. I hope this House will do that, support this motion and make sure the message is sent to the Senate to pass the bill and get it into law.
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- Nov/28/23 4:18:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think we should try to clarify the arguments for those who are trying to follow this.
When it comes to the issue at hand, let there be no doubt that the Conservative Party of Canada opposes the price on pollution. Many would say it is because Conservatives are climate deniers. They will go out of their way on all aspects in order to amplify that. The best example I can actually provide members across the way is how the far right has taken over the leadership of the Conservative Party and their office. They actually, collectively, voted against the Canada-Ukraine trade agreement because of the price on pollution. They want the price on pollution to be the campaign issue.
I am not going to disappoint them. I am going to tell my constituents that they voted against the Canada-Ukraine trade agreement. The Conservatives constantly vote in a negative fashion on Canada's environmental issues. They are climate deniers. That is the bottom line. Today, they are using the excuse of farmers. I find it unacceptable—
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- Nov/28/23 4:19:19 p.m.
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I have to allow for other questions.
The hon. member for Tobique—Mactaquac,
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- Nov/28/23 4:19:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will say to my hon. colleague that the real issue that is at stake is the fact that affordability across this country is a huge challenge for every Canadian. Farmers have been facing soaring input costs and competitive disadvantage for a long time here in Canada. That is not a small issue. Where I come from, they care about this. I hear about it. I receive far more calls on affordability and soaring input costs from our producers than anything else.
I think it is time the government listened to what the folks back home are saying about what they are concerned about. They are concerned about putting groceries on their table, gas in their tank and being able to work at what they love to do.
While the government tries to play firehouse politics, light up everything to distract and make all kinds of noise, people are seeing beyond the noise and they are listening to the signal. They are signalling—
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- Nov/28/23 4:20:26 p.m.
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I do have to allow for other questions.
Questions and comments, the hon. member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques.
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- Nov/28/23 4:20:31 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, common sense has come to town. It has made it to Ottawa. The Conservatives have just realized, in 2023, that senators are not elected. They are complaining that senators are not democratically elected.
We have known this for a long time. We have known for a long time that the upper chamber is a waste of time.
Instead of wasting our time and complaining that things are not being decided democratically, my colleague may be interested in my solution. I would love to hear what he has to say about this. Why not abolish the Senate?
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- Nov/28/23 4:21:14 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will remind my hon. colleague that it was the previous Conservative government that tried to pass meaningful Senate reform. The other side of the House fought that every step of the way. They tried to bring it about.
Here is the issue. Are we going to listen to what our farmers are saying and enact what they want us to enact, or are we just going to acquiesce to an unelected body? I would say we should do everything we can to send a direct message to the body on the other side to pass the bill.
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- Nov/28/23 4:21:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, that was a very impassioned speech. I would just like to comment, first of all, that the punchline of that joke is, “This is the lighthouse and it is your call.” It ends right there.
We are debating a motion about giving direction to the Senate. As my Bloc colleague just mentioned, the Senate is unelected. We pass private members' bills here that go through quite a process to get passed. It is quite a feat. As I mentioned before, in 2019, one of my bills was passed, along with 25 others. They were all blocked and killed in the Senate by a handful of five or six Conservative senators who were against one of those bills, a bill on UNDRIP that they thought should not have been passed here.
I want to ask this question again. Would the member be in favour of the Senate changing its rules so that private members' bills cannot be blocked in the Senate but have to come to a vote?
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- Nov/28/23 4:23:16 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, if one talks to those who grow our food, produce our food, work in our fields and those who represent the farmers, the overwhelming majority of them want this bill passed. This bill is a priority for the Canadian people. This bill needs to be enacted sooner rather than later. Today, we are talking about something that matters to those who put food on Canadians' tables. The best way to do that is by making sure the Senate passes the bill expeditiously, because there is no justification for holding it up. It does not match with the reality of the situation on the ground. This is a priority for Canadians from coast to coast. Let us get the Senate to pass this bill.
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- Nov/28/23 4:24:06 p.m.
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Again, we continue to hear members speak out of turn. I know they want to react to what is being said, but the reactions are very loud and is disruptive. Therefore, I would again ask members to please hold their comments until the appropriate time.
There are members having side conversations as well. I would ask them to please take their conversations out of the chamber, because it does get a little loud.
Resuming debate, the hon. member for Humber River—Black Creek.
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