SoVote

Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 265

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
December 11, 2023 11:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 265 - Dec/11/23
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • Dec/11/23 3:51:33 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the point I was getting to is that Operation Unifier is a military operation, and the member who introduced the motion talked about the Canadian Forces and the role we played in it. Another member tries to imply that it is not relevant, and he needs to give his head a shake. At the end of the day, it is absolutely relevant to be talking about Operation Unifier, a project that is taking place in Ukraine, and the Conservatives' behaviour, which is not consistent with the motion they are moving today. On one occasion, the Conservatives voted directly on that. On two other occasions, they voted against Ukraine. When the member was asked about it, what was his answer? Well, it was a confidence issue. We went line by line on expenditures, and the Conservative Party had a choice. They did not have to vote specifically against something they believe in. To try to give the impression that it is a confidence vote is absolutely bogus. The bottom line—
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/11/23 3:53:10 p.m.
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I have to interrupt the hon. member. I have a point of order from the hon. member for Cumberland—Colchester.
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Mr. Stephen Ellis
  • Dec/11/23 3:53:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I realize that I have not been here that long, but as it would certainly appear the member has been here much longer than I have, he would well know that every vote against the budget item from the opposition, which it is appropriately meant to do, would be a confidence vote against the government for the reckless fiscal attitude it has concerning—
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/11/23 3:53:43 p.m.
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I do understand the point the hon. member is trying to make, and I am sure the parliamentary secretary knows full well that all budget votes are confidence votes. It is on the record now. The hon. parliamentary secretary.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • Dec/11/23 3:53:53 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I suspect that there is a lot of regret on the other side over the types of things they voted against. They can still have all the confidence votes they want, but at the end of the day, the Conservatives have shown very clearly that they do not support Ukraine in a fashion they like to believe they do. This is consistent with the style and pattern we have witnessed from the Conservative Party over the last six months and more, where members opposite try to give a false impression and say they had no choice and had to vote against Ukraine on all three occasions, which is just not true. They could have still vote with a lack of confidence on a wide variety of budgetary motions. They did not have to vote against those budget requests. Operation Unifier, as an example, is very relevant to what we are talking about today, because we are talking about the ways that we conduct our international affairs, whether it is diplomacy or with our Canadian Forces. As we went through the budget, line by line as someone has pointed out, the Conservatives had a choice and they chose to vote on the side of Russia. That is in essence what they did—
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/11/23 3:55:45 p.m.
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I would remind the hon. member to avoid such suggestions, because we do not want to assume reasons. The hon. member for Calgary Centre.
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Mr. Greg McLean
  • Dec/11/23 3:55:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, you addressed my point very well.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • Dec/11/23 3:56:01 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, there is no turning back. When we look at the different lines that were actually voted on, for the time the members were there to actually vote. I want to make sure I am parliamentary on this; at times, the Conservative Party showed up at 50%. It got down to about 49% or something of that nature for voting—
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/11/23 3:56:30 p.m.
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We cannot reference the presence or absence of members in the House, and the parliamentary secretary knows that.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • Dec/11/23 3:56:40 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, that is true. Suffice it to say that, when it started to get a little late, some members felt it was more important to have some sleep than to actually participate in a vote. I am not saying— Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/11/23 3:56:57 p.m.
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This implies they were absent from the chamber. We cannot project indirectly what we cannot do directly. I ask the hon. member to try not to incite disruption.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • Dec/11/23 3:57:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think the point is made.
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Mr. Alex Ruff
  • Dec/11/23 3:57:24 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I want to clarify your point here. We are in a hybrid Parliament, so people are in this chamber regardless of whether they are here or voting virtually.
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/11/23 3:57:37 p.m.
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The hon. member definitely has a point. People can vote virtually or in person.
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Mr. Chris Bittle
  • Dec/11/23 3:57:45 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I rise on the same point of order. Who votes and who does not vote is a matter of Hansard. It is a matter of record. The hon. member did not mention certain members who were or were not here, but mentioning that half of a particular caucus was not there for a vote is a matter of Hansard, and I think that could be mentioned in debate.
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/11/23 3:58:06 p.m.
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It is true that the records of our voting are public. Members can mention that people did not vote, but not that they were not in the chamber. The hon. parliamentary secretary.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • Dec/11/23 3:58:21 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, to the last point of order, the member is right in the sense that if we are in hybrid, it means that members can either be inside the chamber or they can be on screen. However, after midnight, maybe Conservatives were in bed. I would suggest that, at the end of the day, let us push that to the side and talk in terms of why we are debating this particular motion today. The Conservative Party would like to give the impression—
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Mr. Greg McLean
  • Dec/11/23 3:58:57 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I would point out that it is the Liberal government, which the member is a part of, that has allowed members to vote from bed. They are good with that. We have opposed that all the way. It is the Liberals who moved that into Parliament—
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/11/23 3:59:10 p.m.
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Let us start with the debate. We are not redoing that point. I will allow the hon. parliamentary secretary to complete his speech.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • Dec/11/23 3:59:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I was moving on from the Conservatives being in bed. At the end of the day, it is up to the Conservatives, and I get the sense that they have a guilt thing going on. However, just because a significant percentage preferred sleep as opposed to voting, they are the ones who have to justify it, not me. If they are feeling a little guilty about that, that is fine. Where I have a problem is when Conservatives try to lump all those votes and say that they had a right to vote against each one of them, because—
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