SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 265 - Dec/11/23

Dec/11/23 8:35:05 p.m.
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Madam Chair, one of the concerns I see with Indigenous Services Canada is that there has been quite an increase in funding since the Liberal government took office but, as the Parliamentary Budget Officer confirmed, this increase in funding has not led to a similar increase in the ability of ISC to achieve its goals. This means that for first nations, including 42 throughout the Kenora riding, we have not seen the increase in services and the increase in the standard of living that we would expect and that we need to see to help these communities and help these people thrive. Can she provide some comments as to what the government is going to do to ensure that these dollars are flowing to where they need to go, rather than just bloating the bureaucracy further?

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Ms. Arielle Kayabaga

Dec/11/23 8:35:58 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would like to thank my colleague on the other side for his question and for the co-operation we are able to have from time to time. Respectfully, I think he is not qualified to ask any questions on this issue, given that his party and his leader, when they were in government, built about 99 homes for indigenous communities. I just finished talking about the fact that there is a lot of work to be done in terms of the responsibility we have toward indigenous communities across the country. We continue to work to make sure that we are responding to the needs of the indigenous communities. There is always room for improvement, but I respectfully say that my colleague on the other side will have to speak to his leader to do better and actually make a better commitment to indigenous communities across the country.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Dec/11/23 8:36:57 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I wonder if the member has looked at her government's own website. Indigenous Services Canada's website has shown that it is going to be making billions of dollars' worth of cuts, including to, for example, Jordan's principle, which is set to sunset and the government intends not to renew Jordan's principle. I know that we all realize how important Jordan's principle is, given how dire the situation is that indigenous peoples continue to be in. Can the member explain what she is seeing of the cuts or the programs that will be sunsetting and what she will do to make sure that we help reverse those decisions?

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Ms. Arielle Kayabaga

Dec/11/23 8:38:01 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would like to take the opportunity to thank the member opposite for all the work that she does in this House. I have had the pleasure of getting to know her and her community, the work she does and the advocacy she does for her community in this House. I think she has asked a great question. I would like to mention that since this government has been in office, we have increased our funding to indigenous communities and our commitment to funding to Indigenous Services by 150%. As I said earlier in my speech, there is a lot of work to be done. There is a lot room for improvement. We continue to work across the aisle and across the country, working with communities directly to make sure we are responding to the needs of the communities across the country. She asked what I would do to make sure that this funding is ongoing. I will continue to work with her, continue to advocate on behalf of our communities and make sure that we do this in partnership.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach, NDP)

Dec/11/23 8:39:05 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I often find it both a tragedy and a comedy that we are in this place. The question from the hon. member for Nunavut was whether the member was able to identify the fact that Indigenous Services Canada is cutting millions of dollars in programs and services, including but not limited to an important program, Jordan's principle, that protects children in care from dying. To the member, again, can she recognize that her government's cuts will harm children, yes or no?

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Ms. Arielle Kayabaga

Dec/11/23 8:39:48 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank the member opposite for his advocacy and the work he does in this House; it is very important. I also think it is important that we continue to work together. I said in my speech that there is a lot of work left to be done and we continue to do that work together. I am open to continue to work with colleagues across the aisle to make sure that we strengthen our advocacy for the communities we all care about.

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Mrs. Brenda Shanahan (Châteauguay—Lacolle, Lib.)

Dec/11/23 8:40:26 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thought my colleague's speech was very interesting, especially as it related to the challenges around housing for Indigenous communities. The community of Kahnawake, which is in my riding, is an urban community. However, it faces its own challenges. A project was recently approved by Indigenous Services Canada. It is a halfway house for Mohawk youth, with services delivered by Mohawk professionals, in the community of Châteauguay. Does my colleague think that this is a good approach?

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Ms. Arielle Kayabaga

Dec/11/23 8:41:22 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I am very pleased that my colleague was able to tell us about this concrete example from her community. In my speech earlier, I talked about the responsibilities of the federal, provincial and municipal governments. We must all work together to ensure that more housing is built for indigenous communities across the country. Just as my colleague mentioned an example in her community, I also mentioned examples involving Manitoba and Saskatoon. The important thing is to ensure that these kinds of projects are done by and for indigenous communities across the country, and to ensure that culturally appropriate services are in place and ready to meet the needs and challenges faced by the various communities across the country. That is our responsibility. We are in the process of doing just that. We are prepared to continue to make amendments to this type of legislation to ensure that the needs of indigenous peoples across the country are met.

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Ms. Andréanne Larouche (Shefford, BQ)

Dec/11/23 8:42:42 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I heard my colleague talk about the housing challenges facing indigenous peoples. I spoke about the overrepresentation of indigenous women and girls among the victims of domestic violence, but can it be normal, in 2023, that there should also be such a significant overrepresentation of indigenous persons when it comes to homelessness?

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Ms. Arielle Kayabaga

Dec/11/23 8:43:13 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I really appreciate that question. We have been talking about homelessness since I entered politics in 2018. It is important that we can continue to build housing across the country to try to reduce homelessness. I think that my colleague who also voted during the 30‑hour marathon at the end of last week, may know that, on this side of the House, we are prepared to continue supporting projects in collaboration and partnership with communities in need to try to combat homelessness in the country. I appreciate the work that my colleague does on this, and I hope to be able to continue working with her to eradicate homelessness in Canada.

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Mr. Jamie Schmale (Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, CPC)

Dec/11/23 8:44:22 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I appreciate the opportunity to stand and speak about Indigenous Services and the failures within that department. It is always a pleasure. I will be splitting my time with the member for Peace River—Westlock and I look forward to hearing his wise words as well.

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Mr. Jamie Schmale

Dec/11/23 8:44:52 p.m.
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We are here tonight to discuss Indigenous Services and how, in the Conservatives' opinion, it is failing indigenous people right across this country. What seems to be the constant theme with this department, backed up by the Parliamentary Budget Officer and reinforced by the Auditor General, is that the government is spending more, but achieving less, and the departmental targets reflect those reports. The department itself is hitting less than 20% of its annual targets. These are targets set by the department itself, but it seems to have an issue with achieving the targets. Indigenous people on the ground expecting a service or level of care are not getting it. We are hearing that over and over again. Not only that, the cost of living crisis that we are dealing with is exacerbating the problem. Today we heard of another leader within the provincial government, Premier-Elect Simpson, who is now calling for the elimination of the carbon tax, or at least a carve-out, in the Northwest Territories. This is on top of the 133 chiefs across Ontario who are taking the government to court seeking relief. It amplifies the fact that not only is Indigenous Services failing at what it does, but indigenous people are not better off because of the government. The policies are failing and indigenous people want relief. These communities want the cost of their goods and services to come down, not continue to go up. I will go over some of the Auditor General's reports, which said that ISC failed to provide support first nations communities need to manage emergencies, such as floods and wildfires; actions were reactive instead of preventive, despite first nations communities themselves laying out an action plan; indigenous-led projects were ignored by the department; ISC did not implement a risk-based approach to manage emergencies, which was required under the Emergency Management Act; it did not use information about risks faced by first nations and the capacity of first nations to respond to those emergencies; ISC spent 3.5 times more on responding to emergencies than on supporting first nations communities, in fact, preparing them with 112 unfunded infrastructure projects, 74 of which had been in the department's backlog for more than five years. That list goes on and on. Unfortunately, there are people on the ground in communities that are suffering because of it. When we have a department that continues to gobble up more and more dollars and does not get results, where are the objectives for reconciliation being met? Unfortunately, people are suffering because of it. I am looking at the ISC's core responsibilities. Under “Services and Benefits to Individuals”, there is no change in the results. Results, in some cases, are six years old, yet we seen an increase in staffing planned, 1,700 to 1,824, an increase of 7%, but again there is no improvement in services. There is a decrease in services, an increase in the cost of living, indigenous communities are looking for help and asking for relief in housing, health care and the justice portfolio. We have studied all this at committee, but the problems continue to get worse. A pet peeve of mine, when we were looking at non-insured health benefits, is that ISC is still using a fax machine, if anyone can believe it, to fax prescriptions to the department. It is absolutely incredible that this continues to go on. We hear about this at committee, and people on the ground are hurting because of it. Let us axe the tax for farmers, first nations and families forever and help indigenous people looking to ISC for help.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach, NDP)

Dec/11/23 8:49:47 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I have a great deal of respect for the hon. member who just spoke. However, one of the most important pieces of indigenous relations to this country is ensuring that one understands the principles one is advocating. The member and the other Conservative member earlier are so narrowly focused on the outcomes of their carbon tax debate that they have not even mentioned clean water issues on reserves today. They have not mentioned the genocide facing the 2SLGBTQI+ community and murdered and missing women. They have not mentioned the infrastructure gap. We are left to beg the question: What are the priorities of the Conservative Party if not to recognize the treaty and aboriginal and indigenous inherent rights that are found in this country and in our Constitution? To the member's point about the carbon tax specifically, it is important that he recognizes that federal taxation in Canada writ large should ultimately be exempted on first nations reserves, which is something that is found within the Indian Act. If the member was so concerned about affordability on reserves, would he agree that it is time to ensure that first nations have true partnership in relation to all resource projects, including when they say no to them?

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Mr. Jamie Schmale

Dec/11/23 8:50:58 p.m.
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Madam Chair, there is a lot to unpack there, but I actually did mention it. Unfortunately, I only had five minutes, but I did cover health and justice specifically. We did a study in committee talking about indigenous policing. We are actually working on things as a party to address that. So, I disagree with the member; it was outlined. On resource projects, yes, we would like to see more built across Canada, but in order to do that, we do need to have first nations involvement, and we are already seeing it right across the country. We are seeing it with Trans Mountain and others where there are equity stakes in these projects. First nations themselves are getting involved in these projects and actually creating wealth opportunity for their nations. This is something that, yes, in some cases we have done right and some cases we have done wrong, but let us improve on that, get better and come together as a country.

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Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace River—Westlock, CPC)

Dec/11/23 8:52:00 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank the hon. colleague for his impressive speech on this. One of the issues that the Liberals brought up in a previous speech is around housing and that housing is a shared responsibility. I was wondering if the member has any more comments around that.

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Mr. Jamie Schmale

Dec/11/23 8:52:22 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I appreciate the work of the member for Peace River—Westlock. He is a member of the indigenous and northern affairs committee, and I enjoy working with him and his additions to the debate that he is bringing to us today. Housing is something that we have heard is an ongoing issue with indigenous communities, first nations, in particular, and Inuit as well. We know that housing is often cramped and in need of repair, and that a lot of that was exacerbated during the pandemic where people were forced to live in conditions that were greatly unacceptable. ISC, unfortunately, has yet to improve on those actual outcomes. So, most of the discussion that we are bringing on this side is about actually getting results. The bar is not how much money we spend; yes, it is an important piece, but if we are spending a lot of money and getting no results, something is wrong. So, we need to actually have that conversation about how we get better outcomes in this picture.

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Hon. Gary Anandasangaree (Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations, Lib.)

Dec/11/23 8:53:31 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I deeply respect my colleague. I am very curious, because the member mentioned that there are equity relationships where indigenous communities are buying up equity stakes. One of the things that is required for that are loan guarantees. In the fall economic statement, that was one of the principle features of our economic reconciliation. I was wondering why the member opposite and his party voted against that measure when it was brought forward last Thursday and Friday.

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Mr. Jamie Schmale

Dec/11/23 8:54:10 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I do appreciate the contribution from the minister. Likewise, I do have lot of respect for that member as well. We do thank the member for bringing in the loan guarantee program. In fact, it was in our platform, and we appreciate the fact that the Liberals took that piece and started to implement it. However, overall, in that 30 hours of voting, the 135 votes of no confidence was exactly that: We have no confidence in this government. We want to have the carbon tax election.

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Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace River—Westlock, CPC)

Dec/11/23 8:54:42 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is my honour to rise tonight and speak to this debate as well. I guess I would sum it up by two different sayings. In Alberta, we have a saying, “all hat and no cattle” and in the car business, we have a saying, “all show and no go”. I think those statements sum up precisely what the Liberals' actions have been on a whole host of fronts and on indigenous services as well. The government's assessment of success is whether it spends a lot of money. Generally, the Liberal government spends a lot of money. There is no doubt about that. Every time it is faced with a problem, it gets out the Canadian chequebook to write a cheque, to say that it has spent a particular amount of money on a particular issue, but never does it go back to assess the results; never does it go back to see if it is actually achieving anything to make things better. The Auditor General's report says the government has made some dramatic promises in the past. I particularly remember running in the 2015 election and the Liberals saying that by 2019 there would be no more boil water advisories in first nations communities. 2019 has come and gone, nearly four years ago, and we still have boil water advisories in first nations communities. We now see that the Liberals are hedging a little bit. They are saying housing is a shared responsibility. No doubt. That has always been the case. The vast majority of housing in Canada is built by private individuals, built by private money. That has always been the case. Do members know what has happened under Liberal rule? Housing prices have doubled in this country. The time it takes to get a down payment has doubled. The interest rate has gone up maybe three times in the last eight years. The average mortgage payment has doubled over the last eight years under the Liberal Prime Minister. We have continually seen a lack of caring about the results, only caring about how much money they have spent. I am sure the Liberals will stand up and say that when the leader of the Conservatives was minister of housing, he only spent this much money while we have spent way more money—

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Ms. Leah Gazan

Dec/11/23 8:57:29 p.m.
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Madam Chair, on a point of order, we are having a take-note debate tonight about Indigenous Services Canada and it would be nice if the member actually spoke about that. That is what we are here to talk about. It is a critical life-and-death matter for indigenous people in this country. He could respect indigenous people by at least referring to them in his speech.

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