44th Parl. 1st Sess.
January 29, 2024 11:00AM
- Jan/29/24 4:20:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am rising on a point of order. I thought I heard the member move an amendment. Did she move an amendment? Are you going to read that first, Mr. Speaker?
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- Jan/29/24 4:20:26 p.m.
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I do not think that was an amendment. I will seek clarification.
Did the member move an amendment to her motion?
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- Jan/29/24 4:20:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think I made a mistake. As my colleague pointed out, I cannot amend my own motion.
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- Jan/29/24 4:20:57 p.m.
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That is correct. The member cannot move an amendment to her own motion. It is not in order.
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- Jan/29/24 4:21:12 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I guess we will pick up our debate where we left off on the Friday before we recessed for the Christmas break.
What we discovered and what we talked about in my speech on that Friday prior to our leaving for the Christmas season was that this is actually nothing new. As a matter of fact, when the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle was the Speaker of the House of Commons, he went to a fundraiser, and paid $100 to go to it, for the member for Regina—Wascana at the time. He was there. There are pictures of him there. He was there with the now Leader of the Opposition. They have pictures documenting this. Therefore, this is not something unique to this particular Speaker. This is apparently something that has been going on. Coming from a riding that had the longest-serving Speaker of the House of Commons, I am fully aware of what a Speaker will do and how they will engage in their riding and perhaps in just one or two of the neighbouring ridings.
Therefore, I am curious. Can the member from the Bloc inform the House, with respect to when the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle did the exact same thing, how many times the Bloc called for his resignation at that time? Was it one, two, three or four? Perhaps the members from the Bloc never even bothered to question it when it was the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle.
We are being fed this story right now that this is somehow just this Speaker because he did something wrong. It is nothing personal about the Speaker, yet the Bloc does not have a history of calling this out in the past when it has happened. I wonder if the member can inform the House as to how many times the Bloc Québécois raised the issue when it was the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle going to a fundraiser in the member for Regina—Wascana's riding and paying $100 to go there.
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- Jan/29/24 4:23:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, before I answer the question, I would like to make a brief comment. I do not know why the member is speaking so loudly. Every time he speaks, he seems shocked. I think I was calm. I speak French and I do not know if the member was wearing his earpiece, but I am calm. I am not being antagonistic at all. The member wants me to make a comparison and say who was right and who was wrong, but that is not the issue.
The Bloc Québécois is simply pointing out that there is a new element that the members of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs did not study when they prepared their report and made their recommendations. What we are asking is that the committee be reconvened to examine the new facts. It seems to me that this is not all that complicated and it would settle the matter of the Speaker's mistakes.
I know that my colleague might find it amusing to try to engage me in a conflict, but that is not what I want. What I want is for us to discuss the matter calmly. The member cannot deny that the Speaker made another misstep when he attended Liberal MNA André Fortin's cocktail fundraiser. This was yet another lapse in judgment that further undermines the confidence of the House. That is all we are asking for.
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- Jan/29/24 4:24:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I share the member's concern about some of the enthusiasm we hear. I also want to say that when some people speak in this House, I definitely take my headset off, because I do not like to be yelled at in two directions.
I think some of the concerns being brought forward are serious ones. We just spent a period of time talking about the amazing NDP leader Ed Broadbent and the tremendous work he brought forward, part of which was bringing people together.
I know other Speakers have participated in fundraising events that were quite concerning. I wonder if the member shares my concern that we need to review these rules and make sure they are clearer so the House can better hold Speakers to account.
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- Jan/29/24 4:25:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I cannot disagree with my colleague's proposal to review the rules.
However, I consider it so self-evident and clear that the Speaker must avoid raising the shadow of a doubt in the minds of members by participating in partisan activities. This was not a one-time occurrence. There was a video shown at an Ontario Liberal convention and a trip to Washington while we were in turmoil here and discussing our confidence in the Speaker. In addition to that, he attended a cocktail fundraiser. That is a lot for such a short time in office. I am a strong believer in training and education, but all this is so obvious that I fail to understand how the Speaker could have participated in these activities without even wondering whether he was doing something wrong.
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- Jan/29/24 4:26:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, like the hon. member for North Island—Powell River, I also take my earpiece out, not because it is loud, but because I quite frankly do not want to hear what the other side has to say.
This is an important issue, because it speaks to the confidence the House has in the Speaker to make objective rulings in a non-partisan manner. My expectation, and I am sure that of my colleague in the Bloc, is that the Speaker is to make those rulings in an objective, non-partisan manner, but the activities of partisanship and the continued bad judgment speak to a real problem.
My question is a pointed one. Does the hon. member have confidence in the Speaker to be objective and non-partisan and to act in the manner they should as they take that chair?
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- Jan/29/24 4:27:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have been candid in a way that, incidentally, has been acknowledged by the Speaker. My confidence is shaken. All of the Bloc Québécois members are going to find it difficult to recover their full confidence in the Speaker.
Another concern of mine is the precedent this sets. It means that in the next Parliament or when the next Speaker is elected, we are accepting from the outset that he could make a mistake, be partisan, go to a cocktail party, shoot a video at a partisan convention. We are automatically accepting that this may happen, that he will apologize, that he will reimburse the little bit it cost in terms of House resources, and then the whole thing will blow over. That is what bothers me, because frankly, we are talking about a democratic institution in which the Speaker plays a central role. He represents the authority of the House. He must retain the confidence of the members.
Honestly, the precedent we are setting by refusing to revisit the issue at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs lowers the bar for important democratic standards.
I respectfully and calmly invite my colleagues back to the table to debate this issue again.
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- Jan/29/24 4:29:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, ever since the member for Hull—Aylmer was elected as Speaker, he has been making missteps. Historically, this has never been seen before in the House.
I was there when the Speaker appeared before the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. I listened to what he had to say. At that time, we did not know that he had attended Mr. Fortin's cocktail fundraiser for the Quebec Liberal Party. I think that, given the discussions we had in committee, he should have mentioned that. He should have done the honourable thing, but he did not. Between the time when we received the committee's report on the many events that took place involving the Speaker and today—
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- Jan/29/24 4:30:15 p.m.
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The Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons on a point of order.
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- Jan/29/24 4:30:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member just said the Speaker did not act honourably. You and he certainly know the rules that say we are not to imply that any member of this House does not act in an honourable fashion. Perhaps you could ask him to rephrase that and apologize for using that terminology.
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- Jan/29/24 4:31:02 p.m.
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I did not hear the exact phrase the hon. member heard, so I would simply say that we should all be judicious in the things that we say.
Members should follow protocol when speaking.
The hon. member for La Prairie.
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- Jan/29/24 4:31:20 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I did not say anything of the kind. I will continue.
There are two fundamental rules for a good Speaker: good judgment and non-partisanship. What I am saying is that between the time when the report was tabled and today, new information has come to light. That is why the Bloc Québécois thinks that we should redo the work.
I have a question for my colleague. At the meeting of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, was there an opportunity for the Speaker to do the honourable thing? Did he have an opportunity to do that?
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- Jan/29/24 4:31:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, during his testimony on December 11, the Speaker was generous in that he stayed long enough to give a lengthy statement and answer questions from all the members of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.
Honestly though, I really wish we had heard the news from the Speaker himself, instead of learning about it afterwards when we saw an Instagram post from his colleague from Pontiac, who posted the photo and was so proud that he was at André Fortin's cocktail party. He could have been upfront with us. He should have. That would have improved the way we perceived both his acknowledgement of his error and his awareness of his actions.
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- Jan/29/24 4:32:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. There have been discussions among the parties and I suspect, if you were to seek it, you would get permission for me to deal with questions on the Order Paper for today.
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- Jan/29/24 4:33:07 p.m.
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Is that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
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- Jan/29/24 4:33:23 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will go as quickly as I can through this. The following questions will be answered today: Nos. 1945, 1950, 1953 to 1955, 1957 to 1960, 1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1983, 1984, 1988, 1989, 1992 to 1995, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2011, 2016 to 2018, 2020, 2021, 2027, 2028, 2031, 2036 to 2038, 2040, 2041, 2046, 2054, 2057 to 2060, 2062, 2066, 2067, 2073, 2079, 2080, 2090 to 2092, 2094, 2097, 2098, 2105, 2106, 2112, 2115, 2118, 2119, 2122, 2129, 2130, 2133, 2136, 2139, 2141 to 2146, 2149, 2150, 2153, 2154, 2158, 2162, 2163, 2167, 2168, 2170, 2172, 2174, 2178, 2179, 2183, 2184, 2192, 2193, 2194 and 2201.
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- Jan/29/24 4:37:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, furthermore, if a revised response to Question No. 1888, originally tabled on December 11 and 12, 2023, and the government's responses to Questions Nos. 1943, 1944, 1946 to 1949, 1951, 1952, 1956, 1961 to 1970, 1973, 1975, 1977 to 1982, 1985 to 1987, 1990, 1991, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2012 to 2015, 2019, 2022 to 2026, 2029, 2030, 2032 to 2035, 2039, 2042 to 2045, 2047 to 2053, 2055, 2056, 2061, 2063 to 2065, 2068 to 2072, 2074 to 2078, 2081 to 2089, 2093, 2095, 2096, 2099 to 2104, 2107 to 2111, 2113, 2114, 2116, 2117, 2120, 2121, 2123 to 2128, 2131, 2132, 2134, 2135, 2137, 2138, 2140, 2147, 2148, 2151, 2152, 2155 to 2157, 2159 to 2161, 2164 to 2166, 2169, 2171, 2173, 2175 to 2177, 2180 to 2182, 2185 to 2191 and 2195 to 2200 could be made orders for returns, these returns would be tabled in an electronic format immediately.
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