SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 285 - Feb/26/24

Feb/26/24 5:32:58 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, from what I have learned, this legislation has been a long time coming. The NDP has introduced similar bills eight previous times, and I have learned as well that Quebec and British Columbia already have legislation similar to this. There has already been a lot of great work to make sure that there are better relationships between employers and the unions. I wonder if the member can explain why the members of the Liberal Party decided to have an 18-month delay in the implementation of this legislation, given how important those relationships are and given how important it is to protect the rights of workers.

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Mr. Chandra Arya

Feb/26/24 5:33:51 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I agree with the member that this is most important legislation when it comes to the labour workforce in our country. This would be a fundamental change to the way in which collective bargaining and negotiations would take place. Because this would be a major change, it would require time for all the parties involved to get adjusted to the new reality. This is a long time coming, and it would be around for a very long time, so the period of 18 months is required for all the players to get accustomed to the new reality and to make necessary adjustments in their approach in future negotiations.

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Mrs. Brenda Shanahan (Châteauguay—Lacolle, Lib.)

Feb/26/24 5:34:40 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to the speech by my colleague. It caused me to reflect on the number of measures that the Liberal government has brought in, during this Parliament and in previous Parliaments, that really go to the promotion and the defence of unionized workers and of workers across the country. I would like to hear my colleague's comments on how the government has stood for workers in Canada.

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Mr. Chandra Arya

Feb/26/24 5:35:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government, since it came to power in 2015, has always worked for the benefit of the labour force in our country. It has worked hand in hand with the labour unions at all levels. It has always consulted with them and has taken necessary steps to protect their well-being. Personally speaking, my wife is a member of the CUPE union. I see the benefits to the labour force that has the unions. Unfortunately, for the federally regulated workforce, out of a million employees in the federal workforce, only about 34% are unionized. I hope that this particular legislation, similar to what is already available in B.C. and in Quebec, will be adopted by the other provinces in the coming days.

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Mr. Yves Perron (Berthier—Maskinongé, BQ)

Feb/26/24 5:36:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to my colleague, I was not satisfied with the answer given to my NDP colleague earlier about the 18-month delay. As I mentioned earlier today, 18 months is probably more time than this government has left. If the government really intended to legislate to prevent scabs from violating the legitimate rights of workers who have taken legal strike action or who are locked out, it would legislate quickly. Eighteen months means that it would be easy for a government to undo all of this if a different party were to come to power. No one knows what the future holds, but that is more or less what we are dealing with. However, if the law is in effect, it would be far more inconvenient to replace it. I would like my colleague to explain the idea behind the 18-month delay. Saying that it is complicated and that people need to adjust is not a satisfactory answer. It is not complicated. If there is a strike tomorrow morning, the employer is not allowed to hire people to replace the striking workers. That is all there is to it. I do not find it complicated. Port of Québec workers have been locked out for quite some time. There is no way that should be accepted in a G7 country, especially in Quebec, where workers have been protected against that for 47 years when their employer is provincially regulated.

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Mr. Chandra Arya

Feb/26/24 5:37:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, this legislation has come to the House after many decades. I do not think that it makes a big difference to wait patiently for another 18 months, instead of putting it on the employers and the unions who are currently negotiating or are on the verge of starting their negotiations. Once everybody understands, it should not lead to any unintended consequences if it is suddenly brought into force. The 18 months is a good time for everyone involved to get adjusted to this new reality.

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Mr. Earl Dreeshen (Red Deer—Mountain View, CPC)

Feb/26/24 5:38:12 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-58

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to rise today to speak to Bill C-58 regarding labour issues in Canada. In both my former professional role as a teacher and my volunteer role as a hospital board member, I have dealt with labour strife over those years. The issue of replacement workers was always uppermost in the minds of both my colleagues in teaching and our community health care workers. One of my fellow hospital board members was Tony Silbernagel. He sadly passed away just a few months ago, but as an astute businessman and community volunteer, Tony taught me so much about compassion within our community. There have been a number of dear friends over the past couple of months who have also passed away. Erhard Poggemiller was the former mayor of Kerrobert, Saskatchewan. Once he moved to Alberta, he was a councillor in Didsbury up until the last election. His sudden passing was a shock to us all, but I know how committed he too was to health care in Saskatchewan. Two other dear friends, who served as Red Deer city councillors, passed away during the Christmas holidays. My childhood friend, Michael Dawe, was a treasured member of the city of Red Deer. As a historian and archivist, there was no one better. His former colleague, Frank Wong, also passed away during this time. Another icon of our community and former Red Deer alderman was Jack Donald. His philanthropy and care for our community were something that will be remembered forever. Communities have many leaders. Friends like Dave Brown, Winnie MacFayden and Jean Klepper did so much for our central Alberta communities. Whether in sports or agriculture, they were also leaders. Sadly, within my family, we just dealt with the passing of my wife's brother, Charles Moore. Charlie was one of the founders of then-premier Lougheed's dream of rural gasification throughout Alberta. He received lifetime achievement awards from the Federation of Alberta Gas Co-ops and the Alberta Association of Agricultural Societies for his unwavering commitment to community. He was also the recipient of at least five community, provincial and national medals and citations. It was all for the community, for each and every one of these dear friends who have recently passed away. My experiences with labour disruptions started in the late sixties, when I chose to remain at home while my family enjoyed a trip to California so that I could look after the farm and complete a correspondence course over the summer. I had just received all of my lessons when a postal strike started. It was more than three weeks later that I was finally able to send any lessons up to Edmonton to get marked. I received the input from the instructors only a couple of days before I had to write the final exams. Postal strikes take their toll. Coming from an agricultural community and having seen the effects of workplace actions, either at the ports or with the railroad, I am well aware of the costs that exist when Canada's supply chain is disrupted. This legislation looks at some of these issues, but there must be true certainty, especially now, as we look for solutions to get our country's economy back on track. It is with those thoughts in mind that I would like to address some of the key points of this legislation. With all of it, though, there is the underpinning of the responsibility of a federal government to ensure that everything in this country runs smoothly. The buck stops at the cabinet table. We may look at a labour minister as being the one with the responsibility to make these tough decisions, but if it does not have strong input from the ministers of other critical infrastructure, such as agriculture and natural resources, and from other regional ministers, the government never gets the true picture of the pain that these labour disruptions actually cause to the country. That is also why it is important for us, as legislators, to be able to deal with these issues. I wonder if it should be a common goal for all of us to ensure that cabinet can quickly deal with these issues, especially when back-to-work legislation can be interrupted by something as simple as the House not sitting. I have been on both sides of the table when it comes to negotiations. It is never easy, but having done so, I am well aware of the strategies that are involved with labour issues. The reality is, either as a teacher and a member of the Alberta Teachers Association at the time, or as a hospital board representative, the real decision-makers were beyond my reach. Negotiators do what they feel is in the best interest of negotiations, not necessarily the best interest of members. This is a harsh reality, but it is in fact true. However, that does not mean workers, companies and businesses cannot find common ground. If one looks at the results of many negotiations, once the threat of back-to-work legislation becomes evident, it is amazing how quickly two sides can get together. Unions would argue, and perhaps they are right, that is for us to see, that this type of legislation helps on the other side as well. When they do, of course, there is a sense of pride and accomplishment if it is managed to be done without government intervention. That is the way it should be. As government, we should find ways to ensure that is the rule and not the exception. A fair and logical approach for replacement workers, one hopes, would make negotiations more meaningful. This bill was tabled in November 2021, and we are now here, in February 2024, debating it. The Liberal-NDP coalition sure likes to take its time with the legislation it tables for debate. Nevertheless, moving on, Bill C-58 would do two major things. First, it would ban replacement workers in federally regulated industries, such as banking, airports and telecommunications, but it does not ban them in the federal public service. Second, Bill C-58 would amend the maintenance of the activities process to encourage not only quicker agreements between employers and trade unions on what activities should be maintained in the case of a strike or lockout, but also faster decision-making by the Canada Industrial Relations Board in this connection. The provision of Bill C-58 would only apply to federally regulated workers. If enacted, the provision of Bill C-58 would enter into force 18 months after royal assent has been received. One of the concerns with rail and port disruptions in agriculture is that any delays for a producer getting their product to market has a serious impact on their cash flow. In fact, it can be days or weeks of obstruction for farmers, and that ripple effect could last the entire season. When it comes to the movement of goods, it is not just the issue of the days workers do not show up. All the way down the supply chain, affected businesses need to adjust their schedules. It can sometimes be weeks to get the system running smoothly again. Everyone deserves to have a safe workplace, a beneficial relationship with their employer that is built on a foundation of trust and goodwill. Just the same, businesses need to be able to operate and meet their clients' demands in a manner that allows them to continue to operate. My concerns with this bill, Bill C-58, have nothing to do with workers' rights to organize or to engage in collective bargaining, because Canadian workers undoubtedly have those rights. However, labour legislation is always controversial in Canada. I want to be clear. There is a big difference between the boots on the ground and the suits in the union offices. The agendas are not always aligned. Conservatives believe that the government should work with unions and employers in areas of federal jurisdiction to develop dispute settlement mechanisms and to encourage their use to avoid or to minimize disruptions to services in Canada. Of course, the Liberal government, ironically, has put a lot of money into contract workers and replacement workers. It is basically the same type of thing. GC Strategies, a two-person IT company that does no actual IT work, was paid nearly $20 million for ArriveCAN. That money could have been spent much more wisely. In conclusion, I have concerns about the impact and the reach of this legislation. I have concerns about whether this bill draws the right balance between employer and employee. There are mixed signals from the Liberal government. On one hand, it speaks glowingly about banning the use of replacement workers but on the other hand, it is investing heavily in consultants. As Canada rebuilds from the pandemic, from the imposed mandates and the economic consequences of undisciplined spending, it is vital that we rebuild our economy and workforce with sound labour policies.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

Feb/26/24 5:48:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, obviously, we have said, and reiterated today, that we are in favour of such a bill. We are a bit shocked that it will not come into force for 18 months, because this government will likely not be in office 18 months from now, and we are concerned about that. With regard to the Port of Montreal longshore workers and the Canadian National and Air Canada employees, would it not have been smarter to take advantage of that delay to have them learn French?

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Mr. Earl Dreeshen

Feb/26/24 5:48:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it would certainly have helped if I had learned some French over the years. My interpretation said 18 days, but it is 18 months, as we know. There are concerns and one is if the House is not sitting and there is an expectation of having right-to-work legislation. When the House sits, we can deal with that when needed, but if it is not, then all of a sudden it gets dragged out. We can always say that is allowing the process to work. However, we do not work our way through that problem, and maybe that is something we should be looking at as well because it is something we see happen with the ministry of labour. As I mentioned during my address, it is important that everybody talks to the labour minister because there are a lot of other things that happen other than just his discussion with businesses' employees.

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Mr. Taylor Bachrach (Skeena—Bulkley Valley, NDP)

Feb/26/24 5:49:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I believe I heard my Conservative friend bemoan the fact that this bill was tabled in December and yet here we are, in late February, still debating it. I have two simple questions. The first is whether the member wishes this bill moved through the House more speedily and, second, whether he will be voting for this bill at second reading.

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Mr. Earl Dreeshen

Feb/26/24 5:50:20 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what I said is it was a couple of years ago when it was first proposed and now we are finally seeing it come for discussion. The other question was whether we should have 18 months. There will be a different government in 18 months. It still comes back to: What have we heard? What we are looking at? Are there are any assurances that the restrictions on replacement workers are going to speed up negotiations? Those are the questions and what I believe everyone is talking about here today.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Feb/26/24 5:51:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, it is encouraging to hear members of the Conservative caucus talk relatively positively about the labour movement, but they have not been clear about their intentions with regard to the legislation. After listening to the member's speech, I would ask the member to reflect on how he will vote on the legislation.

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Mr. Earl Dreeshen

Feb/26/24 5:51:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, a lot of Canadians are in suspense right now as well because they want to know what would happen if we have an election. I am prepared to listen to whatever the electorate says in that regard as well. We are talking about three westerners from the Liberal Party. I hope that the member is one of them.

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Mr. Ted Falk (Provencher, CPC)

Feb/26/24 5:52:20 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to publicly extend my sympathies to the member for Red Deer—Mountain View on the passing of his close friend and brother-in-law Charlie Moore, whom he referenced in his speech. I have gotten to know the member really well on the natural resources committee and I know he is a fierce advocate for his constituency of Red Deer—Mountain View, as well as for agriculture, but specifically as an advocate and defender of the world's most ethical energy, and that is Alberta oil and gas. I want to thank him for his advocacy. True to Liberal form, this is another bill that seeks to divide Canadians. We have seen it over and over. Whether it is on social, economic, cultural or regional issues, the Liberal-NDP government has chosen to divide Canadians. Again in this bill, we see that federally regulated industries are captured in this bill, whereas federal employees are not. What is the fairness?

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Mr. Earl Dreeshen

Feb/26/24 5:53:20 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, part I of the Canada Labour Code “sets the rules for unionization, collective bargaining and labour disputes in federally regulated sectors. More specifically, Part I applies to” and it then goes through the list, “the federally regulated private sector, which includes key industries such as: banking; telecommunications and broadcasting; air, rail and maritime transportation; most Crown corporations (for example, Canada Post);...First Nations band councils”. It also applies to “all private sector businesses and municipal governments in the Northwest Territories, Nunavut and Yukon”. Therefore, the question becomes why we are taking certain groups and carving them out. From what I have heard in the last couple of days, there has really been no discussion about that. I think this is something that really deserves more of that thoughtfulness.

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The Deputy Speaker

Feb/26/24 5:54:18 p.m.
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Is the House ready for the question? Some hon. members: Question. The Deputy Speaker: The question is on the motion. If a member participating in person wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division, or if a member of a recognized party participating in person wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall

Feb/26/24 5:55:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we request a recorded division.

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The Deputy Speaker

Feb/26/24 5:55:08 p.m.
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Pursuant to Standing Order 45, the division stands deferred until Tuesday, February 27, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Feb/26/24 5:55:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I suspect if you were to canvass the House, you would find unanimous consent at this time to call it 6:30 p.m. so we could possibly begin the late show.

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The Deputy Speaker

Feb/26/24 5:55:36 p.m.
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Is that agreed? Some hon. members: Agreed.

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